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Moderns that are heating up on ebay!
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Started by thirdgreenham,

63,757 posts in this topic

rjrjr

rjrjr

Posted
Posted
All this modern variant cover explosion reminds me of the 90's Valiant books

that were selling for triple digits within weeks of release and then crashed so hard that

it made Russian toilet paper look more appealing.

 

Sure, some Valiant stuff rose in price again recently due to speculation with Sony

possibly making Valiant related movies but, boy oh boy....

 

Will history repeat itself? It's very likely because you need mass awareness & wanting

to drive continued demand and niche markets rarely, if ever, do that.

 

 

It will also be interesting to see how some of these collectors now chasing variants change and perhaps mature as they stay with the hobby longer. I wonder if some of the popularity of variants is linked to newer collectors that either can't afford, don't have the knowledge, or currently don't have the desire to chase older key books. I was talking to my LCS owner today, and he just picked up a large (and amazing) GA collection. I mentioned that my own interest in GA and SA has been growing in the last year or so. He came back with the whole GA market seems to be exploding right now, and demand is way up. Is this a results of younger collectors changing focus? If so, does this mean artificial collectibles will eventually take a hit as people start collecting other types of books?

 

I honestly don't see young collectors chasing these variant covers so much as older collectors with disposable income who still have to "have them all" and/or speculators. I'd wager the speculators are more important to the prices of these variants than collectors at the moment.

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SquareChaos

SquareChaos

Posted
Posted
All this modern variant cover explosion reminds me of the 90's Valiant books

that were selling for triple digits within weeks of release and then crashed so hard that

it made Russian toilet paper look more appealing.

 

Sure, some Valiant stuff rose in price again recently due to speculation with Sony

possibly making Valiant related movies but, boy oh boy....

 

Will history repeat itself? It's very likely because you need mass awareness & wanting

to drive continued demand and niche markets rarely, if ever, do that.

 

 

It will also be interesting to see how some of these collectors now chasing variants change and perhaps mature as they stay with the hobby longer. I wonder if some of the popularity of variants is linked to newer collectors that either can't afford, don't have the knowledge, or currently don't have the desire to chase older key books. I was talking to my LCS owner today, and he just picked up a large (and amazing) GA collection. I mentioned that my own interest in GA and SA has been growing in the last year or so. He came back with the whole GA market seems to be exploding right now, and demand is way up. Is this a results of younger collectors changing focus? If so, does this mean artificial collectibles will eventually take a hit as people start collecting other types of books?

 

That is an interesting question, but I don't know. It seems like high dollar items all over the hobby have been on a forever upward rise. From the raw, the slabs, to the OA - there are deep pockets in the hobby.

 

Personally, I've been into comics in one way or another for 30 years but I've never gained more than a passing appreciation for anything before SA.

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MrWeen

MrWeen

Posted
Posted
All this modern variant cover explosion reminds me of the 90's Valiant books

that were selling for triple digits within weeks of release and then crashed so hard that

it made Russian toilet paper look more appealing.

 

Sure, some Valiant stuff rose in price again recently due to speculation with Sony

possibly making Valiant related movies but, boy oh boy....

 

Will history repeat itself? It's very likely because you need mass awareness & wanting

to drive continued demand and niche markets rarely, if ever, do that.

 

 

My only problem with this is that those Valiant books had massive print runs and the high end variants of today do not. In fact the valiant books that continue to do well from that era are their own gold/ platinum variants and that is because they have much lower print runs.

 

My issue with today's variants-substance. Most just have cool covers but for me to invest in a pricey book means that the content has to be just as good as the cover. That rarely happens. At least a lot of the early Valiant stuff was well written!

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ygogolak

ygogolak

Posted
Posted
All this modern variant cover explosion reminds me of the 90's Valiant books

that were selling for triple digits within weeks of release and then crashed so hard that

it made Russian toilet paper look more appealing.

 

Sure, some Valiant stuff rose in price again recently due to speculation with Sony

possibly making Valiant related movies but, boy oh boy....

 

Will history repeat itself? It's very likely because you need mass awareness & wanting

to drive continued demand and niche markets rarely, if ever, do that.

 

 

Yes, similar, however these are mostly Marvel variants however. Valiant failed completely as a company and has never had a Spider-Man, Batman, etc...

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Red_Hood

Red_Hood

Posted
Posted
All this modern variant cover explosion reminds me of the 90's Valiant books

that were selling for triple digits within weeks of release and then crashed so hard that

it made Russian toilet paper look more appealing.

 

Sure, some Valiant stuff rose in price again recently due to speculation with Sony

possibly making Valiant related movies but, boy oh boy....

 

Will history repeat itself? It's very likely because you need mass awareness & wanting

to drive continued demand and niche markets rarely, if ever, do that.

 

 

Yes, similar, however these are mostly Marvel variants however. Valiant failed completely as a company and has never had a Spider-Man, Batman, etc...

 

Agreed, but in today's market place Marvel is not doing itself any favors with the quality they are producing with many readers quickly dropping titles as the big publishers try to constantly reinvent themselves with annual gimmick events.

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Red_Hood

Red_Hood

Posted
Posted
All this modern variant cover explosion reminds me of the 90's Valiant books

that were selling for triple digits within weeks of release and then crashed so hard that

it made Russian toilet paper look more appealing.

 

Sure, some Valiant stuff rose in price again recently due to speculation with Sony

possibly making Valiant related movies but, boy oh boy....

 

Will history repeat itself? It's very likely because you need mass awareness & wanting

to drive continued demand and niche markets rarely, if ever, do that.

 

 

My only problem with this is that those Valiant books had massive print runs and the high end variants of today do not. In fact the valiant books that continue to do well from that era are their own gold/ platinum variants and that is because they have much lower print runs.

 

My issue with today's variants-substance. Most just have cool covers but for me to invest in a pricey book means that the content has to be just as good as the cover. That rarely happens. At least a lot of the early Valiant stuff was well written!

 

Yes, I do agree print runs, but back then the internet did not play such a prevalent role in the comic industry and no one cared about print runs, it was the "next shiny object" syndrome. Dealers were actually trading away quality gold, silver and bronze age material to obtain Valiant inventory and it backfired big-time!!

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Red_Hood

Red_Hood

Posted
Posted
All this modern variant cover explosion reminds me of the 90's Valiant books

that were selling for triple digits within weeks of release and then crashed so hard that

it made Russian toilet paper look more appealing.

 

Sure, some Valiant stuff rose in price again recently due to speculation with Sony

possibly making Valiant related movies but, boy oh boy....

 

Will history repeat itself? It's very likely because you need mass awareness & wanting

to drive continued demand and niche markets rarely, if ever, do that.

 

 

It will also be interesting to see how some of these collectors now chasing variants change and perhaps mature as they stay with the hobby longer. I wonder if some of the popularity of variants is linked to newer collectors that either can't afford, don't have the knowledge, or currently don't have the desire to chase older key books. I was talking to my LCS owner today, and he just picked up a large (and amazing) GA collection. I mentioned that my own interest in GA and SA has been growing in the last year or so. He came back with the whole GA market seems to be exploding right now, and demand is way up. Is this a results of younger collectors changing focus? If so, does this mean artificial collectibles will eventually take a hit as people start collecting other types of books?

 

Part of the equation is also not true collectors but people trying to diversify investment portfolios with the big GA keys. There are still many undervalued books in the bronze age that don't even have 1 CGC 9.8 yet and people are spending $9,000 on a modern that has double digit 9.8 copies :screwy:

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drotto

drotto

Posted
Posted
All this modern variant cover explosion reminds me of the 90's Valiant books

that were selling for triple digits within weeks of release and then crashed so hard that

it made Russian toilet paper look more appealing.

 

Sure, some Valiant stuff rose in price again recently due to speculation with Sony

possibly making Valiant related movies but, boy oh boy....

 

Will history repeat itself? It's very likely because you need mass awareness & wanting

to drive continued demand and niche markets rarely, if ever, do that.

 

 

It will also be interesting to see how some of these collectors now chasing variants change and perhaps mature as they stay with the hobby longer. I wonder if some of the popularity of variants is linked to newer collectors that either can't afford, don't have the knowledge, or currently don't have the desire to chase older key books. I was talking to my LCS owner today, and he just picked up a large (and amazing) GA collection. I mentioned that my own interest in GA and SA has been growing in the last year or so. He came back with the whole GA market seems to be exploding right now, and demand is way up. Is this a results of younger collectors changing focus? If so, does this mean artificial collectibles will eventually take a hit as people start collecting other types of books?

 

Part of the equation is also not true collectors but people trying to diversify investment portfolios with the big GA keys. There are still many undervalued books in the bronze age that don't even have 1 CGC 9.8 yet and people are spending $9,000 on a modern that has double digit 9.8 copies :screwy:

 

Remember many BA and CA books that were sold as "rare" or hard to find not to long ago. Then about 15 years ago this little thing called eBay hit big, and showed us that books the LCS' were selling for $10 as hard to find were all over the place, and the prices have fallen to about $2. I remember hunting upwards of a dozen stores to put runs together and overpaying just because I finally found the stupid book. That does not happen in todays world, I can find 99% of books in about 15 minutes. A lot of what was thought to be rare turned out to be common, and prices on so many books now reflect that fact.

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ygogolak

ygogolak

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

Yes, similar, however these are mostly Marvel variants however. Valiant failed completely as a company and has never had a Spider-Man, Batman, etc...

 

Agreed, but in today's market place Marvel is not doing itself any favors with the quality they are producing with many readers quickly dropping titles as the big publishers try to constantly reinvent themselves with annual gimmick events.

 

Compared to whom? DC and Marvel stand alone at the top. I see people saying they are getting sick of the reboots, but that's not what the sales say. 4 of the top 100 in Dec. 2016 were non-Big 2. Four

Edited by ygogolak
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revat

revat

Posted
Posted

 

Yes, similar, however these are mostly Marvel variants however. Valiant failed completely as a company and has never had a Spider-Man, Batman, etc...

 

Agreed, but in today's market place Marvel is not doing itself any favors with the quality they are producing with many readers quickly dropping titles as the big publishers try to constantly reinvent themselves with annual gimmick events.

 

Compared to whom? DC and Marvel stand alone at the top. I see people saying they are getting sick of the reboots, but that's not what the sales say. 4 of the top 100 in Dec. 2016 were non-Big 2. Four

 

The best comparison is probably to themselves at different periods in time. Their market shares are not really at risk, except to each other (big 2). But I would say that any market share (however small) they lose to indies is very hard to win back.

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Red_Hood

Red_Hood

Posted
Posted

 

Yes, similar, however these are mostly Marvel variants however. Valiant failed completely as a company and has never had a Spider-Man, Batman, etc...

 

Agreed, but in today's market place Marvel is not doing itself any favors with the quality they are producing with many readers quickly dropping titles as the big publishers try to constantly reinvent themselves with annual gimmick events.

 

Compared to whom? DC and Marvel stand alone at the top. I see people saying they are getting sick of the reboots, but that's not what the sales say. 4 of the top 100 in Dec. 2016 were non-Big 2. Four

 

Compared to themselves... look at distribution numbers of the big titles during the 70's and 80's. Today's numbers aren't even close to those levels. In most cases it's 10% or less of the old distributions for the big title characters.

DC & Marvel need to reinvent themselves big-time to adjust to the changing world and

that doesn't just mean to increase cover price.

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drotto

drotto

Posted
Posted

I often wonder if the comic industry is getting into an economic death spiral. What I mean by that sales go down and the company loses income. They raise prices to compensate for the decrease income, so despite lower volume profits remain about the same initially. Then consumers see the price increase and decide it is not worth it, so circulation goes down again. The company again tries to raise prices, etc, etc, etc. Eventually it just all falls apart.

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aerischan

aerischan

Posted
Posted
I often wonder if the comic industry is getting into an economic death spiral. What I mean by that sales go down and the company loses income. They raise prices to compensate for the decrease income, so despite lower volume profits remain about the same initially. Then consumers see the price increase and decide it is not worth it, so circulation goes down again. The company again tries to raise prices, etc, etc, etc. Eventually it just all falls apart.

I really do think we need more accessible and cheaper distribution. Marvel Unlimited is a step in that direction albeit it cuts the middlemen.

 

Alternately, why not go back to comic anthologies, at least for lower circulation titles for DC and Marvel? I realize this might not work as well for creator-owned titles but for work-for-hire stuff with page rates, this might actually be feasible.

 

Just got the Loot Crate reprint of Action Comics #1 and it wasn't until I read it that I realized comic anthologies similar to Japanese manga anthologies/phonebooks used to exist once upon a time in the US.

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ygogolak

ygogolak

Posted
Posted (edited)

Compared to whom? DC and Marvel stand alone at the top. I see people saying they are getting sick of the reboots, but that's not what the sales say. 4 of the top 100 in Dec. 2016 were non-Big 2. Four

 

The best comparison is probably to themselves at different periods in time. Their market shares are not really at risk, except to each other (big 2). But I would say that any market share (however small) they lose to indies is very hard to win back.

 

Compared to themselves... look at distribution numbers of the big titles during the 70's and 80's. Today's numbers aren't even close to those levels. In most cases it's 10% or less of the old distributions for the big title characters.

DC & Marvel need to reinvent themselves big-time to adjust to the changing world and

that doesn't just mean to increase cover price.

 

IMO, it would only matter if the comic book market itself is losing readers. You can't lose a race to yourself. You can make less money, yes, but that's natural for any business. At some point it's going to hit its peak and fluctuate up and down from there. (Much like variants do).

Edited by ygogolak
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valiantman

valiantman

Posted
Posted
All this modern variant cover explosion reminds me of the 90's Valiant books

that were selling for triple digits within weeks of release and then crashed so hard that

it made Russian toilet paper look more appealing.

 

Sure, some Valiant stuff rose in price again recently due to speculation with Sony

possibly making Valiant related movies but, boy oh boy....

 

Will history repeat itself? It's very likely because you need mass awareness & wanting

to drive continued demand and niche markets rarely, if ever, do that.

 

 

My only problem with this is that those Valiant books had massive print runs and the high end variants of today do not. In fact the valiant books that continue to do well from that era are their own gold/ platinum variants and that is because they have much lower print runs.

 

My issue with today's variants-substance. Most just have cool covers but for me to invest in a pricey book means that the content has to be just as good as the cover. That rarely happens. At least a lot of the early Valiant stuff was well written!

The best-written early Valiant stuff is the stuff that still matters 20-25 years later.

 

Harbinger #1 (1992) was just a regular comic, and a CGC 9.8 Harbinger #1 has more value ($700+) than any Valiant variant Gold or Platinum... except for Bloodshot #0 Platinum (which wasn't an official comic).

 

The high dollar variants for Valiant "back-in-the-day" have not recovered, but the key issues for Valiant well-written stories do matter... just regular issues.

 

Solar #3 is the first appearance of Toyo Harada. Just a regular comic, not low print, but over $150 for CGC 9.8

 

X-O Manowar #4, first appearance... Magnus #5, first appearance... Solar #10, first appearance.

 

None of those are variants, but all of those are key issues 25 years later.

 

If the early Valiant stuff wasn't well written... it would have the same value as other independent comics from 1990s. Similar age titles for Image haven't faired so well... Youngblood, Brigade, Deathblow, Stormwatch... where are the keys for regular issues? None. The bolded quote is the reason why...

At least a lot of the early Valiant stuff was well written!
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ygogolak

ygogolak

Posted
Posted
I'm fine not seeing it again, I think it looks awful.

 

 

 

what's wrong with the cover? when you see something that looks like street graffiti does it makes you angry and just can't look at it?

 

Probably going to hate this one:

 

107332f0-830e-404f-a324-593325e35d99_zpss3r6sm5n.jpg

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1Cool

1Cool

Posted
Posted
I'm fine not seeing it again, I think it looks awful.

 

 

 

what's wrong with the cover? when you see something that looks like street graffiti does it makes you angry and just can't look at it?

 

Probably going to hate this one:

 

107332f0-830e-404f-a324-593325e35d99_zpss3r6sm5n.jpg

 

I think the Punisher is pretty cool but that one is terrible.

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Praxis52

Praxis52

Posted
Posted
I'm fine not seeing it again, I think it looks awful.

 

 

 

what's wrong with the cover? when you see something that looks like street graffiti does it makes you angry and just can't look at it?

 

Probably going to hate this one:

 

107332f0-830e-404f-a324-593325e35d99_zpss3r6sm5n.jpg

 

I totally dig that cover for America. Do you know which cover it's for? I'm assuming #1....

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