mister_not_so_nice Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Question from a super newbie here. There is a piece of art I fell in love with many years ago and got outbid in an eBay auction. It was a cover and didn't have the title/logo/comic code authority etc. I saw the same page listed on the coolines webpage except it had the title of the comic, CCA logo, writer/artist of the comic (basically the cover of the comic without colors). I inquired about price and it was about 10 times what the other piece went for. I love this artist/ comic and this would be my dream piece. However, if I'm even considering paying that much, I'd want to know I'm not just paying for a photocopy that really isn't considered original art. Is the piece without the logo and title considered original art or is it the piece with the title, etc? Is one considered a "stat" and one not? Not sure about what I should be looking for. Also, do the more experienced members have advice on negotiating prices with coolines. Help much appreciated. THIS THREAD will start to answer some of your questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alxjhnsn Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Here we go again. I really need to write a Donnelly Brothers Q&A. Re: Pricing The brothers D seem to be collectors who pose as dealers. They price their items well above market and do not seem to care if they ever sell anything. Re: Is what they have "real" The short answer is that they probably have the art you saw on eBay. They frequently "enhance" the art they buy through the addition of missing elements which they have recreated. It is unknown (to me anyway), if these elements are permanently attached, but it seems likely. My personal "favorite" Coollines alteration is what they did with the OA for the Curt Swan 25th Anniversary cover. This was originally on one of the (many) other pages about the Donnelly brothers. I'd like to preface this with that my relationship with Coollines Art has been only through e-mail and while we've never struck a deal they have always been prompt and polite. That said, they do things differently than I would and one of those is "restoration" of their art. One example is Curt Swan's cover for Superman Annual #7. This Curt Swan piece was sold on Heritage in 2007 - As I understand it, the Heritage buyer sold/traded it to the Donneleys. They now show it on their site as: A conversation on the Curt Swan FB fan page led to an e-mail conversation with Steve. Steve told me in that note that: As our web site mentions, the large center Superman figure by Curt Swan was the only original art ever created for this cover. The four side images were stats taken from images of earlier reprinted stories and were missing from the original when I bought it. "The 4 side images on the 1963 annual were originally stat'ed from earlier Superman stories and were hand redrawn for this cover" So, I had the missing stats redrawn and placed on the original art board in the exact position that the DC production material would have gone! So, they restored the cover to its original state by re-creating stats. An interesting point was made on the Swan FB page by Ray Cuthbert about Steve's assumption: Steve's information to Alex above shows an incorrect assumption. All of the images for that cover were drawn especially for that cover by Swan & Klein. They were not stats unless they were drawn by Swan and Klein and then statted for publication purposes. The stories reprinted were not all drawn by Swan, let alone all inked by Klein. There is no way that those were stats from story panels originally. I have no idea if it was done on two separate boards, but I suspect so, since only the "statue" part was done in ink wash, to make it look distinctive. While I would not have mounted "replacement stats" on the original Swan piece, I might have done it on an overlay. There are several takeaways here: 1) People do try to "restore" art and Coollines is one place that does. 2) Proper restoration is hard. 3) Be an informed buyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueace Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Hello there, I just started collecting OA so I am pretty new at this, I always collected comic books and I can't believe that it never occurred to me that I could own the original art works. I pretty much read the forum and am glad to say that I started collecting in the right step. I only collect my favorite art pieces and don't wish to sale or trade them in the future, I will only collect art from my favorite character and that is She-hulk. I do have a couple questions and am hoping to get some good advice. 1. I still don't understand the concept of pencil and inked pages, by that I mean on a website they sell only the pencil works but they also have a inked ver. Maybe I am not reading it right but are there always two versions? 2. My dream art piece is frank cho's cover "King size hulk #1", my question is dose anybody know where to find his art works? All I could find is his book variant commissions but no interior works. Any help would be appreciated. 3. lastly where can I post pictures of the artworks I would like to occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alxjhnsn Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Re: Pencils and Inks Back in the day, pencils were drawn, the letters were added, the inks were added, and the final board was shipped to the printers (more or less). Technology has changed this. Now it's common to have pencils drawn, a scan made, the scan sent electronically to an inker, the scan printed by the inker, the printed scan is inked, the finished piece scanned and sent on to others for lettering and coloring. It's not uncommon for everything to be electronic. - pencils, inks, letters, colors are all done without ever touching paper until the book is printed. Saga is one such example. I was lucky enough to get the pencils and inks to a Legion of Super-Heroes page. You can see it full size by clicking on it. Re: Finding Art There is a thread on this board that might be of use. Beyond that, it's check with the dealers. Dealers, generally, post their art with fixed prices though there are exceptions. There is a list of dealers on CGC OA board and the Dragonberry site has a list as well. You can use the CAF to query dealer sites by simply entering keywords in their search box. The result will have a pick to show dealer sites. If you become a Premium Member on the CAF, the CAF site will search the inventories of several dealers for you and notify you of new pieces matching your search. Re: Post pictures of artworks If you mean pieces that you own, the Comic Art Fans (CAF) site is the right place. If you are asking about where to post a want list, I'd suggest the Want List on the CAF site and the Marketplace link on these boards. You might also join the Yahoo comicart-l mailing list and ask nicely about it. Edited September 29, 2015 by alxjhnsn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueace Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Thank you very much for the great break down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alxjhnsn Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 You are welcome. I cleaned it up a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueace Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Hello there, I have another question, so I asked two people on CAF if they where willing to sell me their OA. They both replay (not really but that they where willing to hear me what I was intending to offer). The first one was for a She-Hulk battle page with 3 panels, I offer him 125$, the guy said never mind. For the second person I offer 155$ and he never reply, my question is am I doing something wrong, not offering enough money or somehow insulting them by asking? So has anybody gone through something like this, how much should I offer for a piece i want but I also don't want to overpay for it neither. Or should I ask them how much do they want for it, but again I'm concern that they might hike up the price, what should I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Marino Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Hello there, I have another question, so I asked two people on CAF if they where willing to sell me their OA. They both replay (not really but that they where willing to hear me what I was intending to offer). The first one was for a She-Hulk battle page with 3 panels, I offer him 125$, the guy said never mind. For the second person I offer 155$ and he never reply, my question is am I doing something wrong, not offering enough money or somehow insulting them by asking? So has anybody gone through something like this, how much should I offer for a piece i want but I also don't want to overpay for it neither. Or should I ask them how much do they want for it, but again I'm concern that they might hike up the price, what should I do. If it's in someone's collection and you want to pry it loose, you're going to have to make an over the top offer. That means over pay. If you don't want to over pay, you have to wait for a similar page to come up for sale or auction. If it's for sale, and they say offers, then that's a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dholden007 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Hello there, I have another question, so I asked two people on CAF if they where willing to sell me their OA. They both replay (not really but that they where willing to hear me what I was intending to offer). The first one was for a She-Hulk battle page with 3 panels, I offer him 125$, the guy said never mind. For the second person I offer 155$ and he never reply, my question is am I doing something wrong, not offering enough money or somehow insulting them by asking? So has anybody gone through something like this, how much should I offer for a piece i want but I also don't want to overpay for it neither. Or should I ask them how much do they want for it, but again I'm concern that they might hike up the price, what should I do. You didn't do anything wrong, your offer just likely wasn't high enough. I have done that many times.Although I usually ask for their price "to let the piece go." If they ask for an offer instead I make an offer but a little less than my max, just to have a little room to play with. If they dont respond, I just move on. There is a lot of great art out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alxjhnsn Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 A "no response" doesn't mean that you did anything impolite or wrong. It just means that the offer wasn't enough to get them excited. While a note declining your offer would be nice, I don't think it should be expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanester Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 As a novie CA fan I had to read this thread. Yes, all 48 (to date) pages. I am not an investment collector and although I have one interior comic page, I really only collect sketch work. I guess most people would call them convention sketches or commission pieces. I don't really know what is the best term, but that is what I call them. I joined this forum because I know the value of an expert opinion. I'd like to ask a couple of opinions, if I may. Keep in mind these are really in regard to sketch works. 1. Personalizations? Good or bad? I have lately been suggesting them for pieces I request because it seems to let the artist know the piece is for me and not Ebay. On the other hand, I will not live forever and someone else my find what I left behind up for sale. Does the personalization kill it? Remember, I am not investing really, but these artists don't live forever either. I go to about 2 conventions a year and spend the majority of my time in artists alley checking out familiar artists and seeing what newer guys are doing. This is great for picking up work from the younger artists who still show up to these things and take commissions. I am a middle aged man and most of the books I read as a kid featured artwork by artists who do not tend to travel anymore. My question: 2. I am wondering if there is a suggested technique along with etiquette for inquiring with the artist if they would do a commission? I have a "bucket list" of artists I would like to get a sketch from and a few of the ones I have left are well known guys who don't hit the circuits much. I tried to just buy something already done off Ebay and got burned by a fake (Romita), so now I am back to square one. Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I can speak a little about personalizations. I had a college professor who collected signed first edition books who told me go ahead and get a personalization because it doesn't affect the value. Flash forward 15 years I noticed non-personalized books were ending with higher bids on eBay than personalized books. Now this is for contemporary books. So think about it this way: if a first edition Catcher in the Rye came your way at a great price that was signed and personalized to "Bob," would you turn it down because of that, assuming there was no other one on the market? I wouldn't. But relating to comic art sketches. I purchased a Bruce Timm sketch off the original owner in which the sketch was personalized. This didn't discourage me from buying it. Plus, I resold it at a premium a few months later. The personalization didn't seem to discourage that buyer either. Why? Because it's Bruce Timm! Bottomline: If someone wants the piece, I don't think the personalization matters. But if there are a thousand pieces like it out there, I think the personalization might fetch a lower price. But I believe someone in the future will enjoy the piece regardless of personalization. Hope that gives you some perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanester Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Thanks Jay! This is along the lines of my thinking, as well. Makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Taking personalization a step further...doing so is fine (imo) but why not create some provenance too (vs. just "To Bob" - Bob who, and why do I care??) by getting a picture of yourself with the artist and the piece? And print it and keep it with the piece (so not just a digpic on a hdd that will one day die of a power surge and be gone forever!) This not only is cool for you (!!) but down the road will ease any pain of of proving "is it real?" especially if the artist has passed or cannot be asked for some reason. And it creates a backstory, some context beyond that simple "To Bob". And hey while we're at it, why not have the artists sign with the date and event (SDCC 2015, etc)? After ten or twenty years a stack of "those" will be a situation (imo) where the sum is greater that the parts and somebody (your heirs?) could one day market that nice stack as pieces from the Bob X Sketch Collection (this is called branding), and they all tie nicely together. But really, I just think it would be cool to get the additionals and make it all part of "your" story as a collector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Hal Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 As a collector, I'll pass on a personalized piece in almost all circumstances, especially if the note is in the body of the art. Maybe I'm in the minority here but I know of a few others who agree with me. A personalized note to someone of significance might make a difference. You know: "To Stan from Jack. Love ya, buddy!" would be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantalien Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Hi, I have a comic strip I got for a birthday present and want to know the best way to get it framed. What should I ask for/look for when trying to frame it and preserve it from the sun? Any assistance would be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alxjhnsn Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Me? Black frame, double mat - black inner, white outer, archival materials, UV plex. Lots of examples on the Art behind glass: Show off your framed art! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 I'd float it in a simple light colored wood frame. Black 'shrinks' the art and distracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoKing Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Two good links for beginning collectors (like myself) Dollars and Sense: All You Need To Know About Buying Original Artwork How To Buy A Piece Of Comic Art : Finding the Right Comic Book Art for You This is a good read. I'm wanting to break into collecting some great art and this thread is great info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanester Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Advice please. There is a page from a modern Marvel comic that I would love to track down. This seems like finding a needle in a haystack, to me. I have never mounted a hunt for a page before. Any guidance? I did some searching on a few sites for the page with no luck. I did find a few NFS pages from the same book on CAF, but thats it. The page is from Skaar: Son of Hulk #10 and was penciled by Ron Lim. I am not sure of the correct page number because I only have the hardcover trade. I ordered the issue, just so I would know the page, but don't know it for sure yet. Thanks for reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
