Is CGC good for comics?

[Foolkiller]

i don't think the internet message boards, on this or any other forum, represent the majority of the comic book collecting hobby. we're more of the vocal end... and very immersed in it... so I stand by the fact that I just don't see as all that divisive since I imagine most collectors aren't all that vocal on the whole CGC topic at all.

[Stark This-migration]

I am torn as to how I feel. I think it is bad in the Modern era of comics but as a whole it is a good thing. From a buyers perspective there is no ambiguity as to what you are purchasing and it is well protected and preserved. I prefer to have my silver age stuff slabbed only if I am buying it for a reasonable price or I already have it in a low grade "reading copy" (or in Essentials/Masterworks) and am sending it in myself. I love collecting for character and stories, CGC tends to eliminate that. I will add, there is some excitement to sending books in and opening the box upon there LOOOOONNNNNGGGG awaited return to see what you've got.

 

-stark-

[flashfan-migration]

I think the NM and higher prices on older material have always been volatile; that has nothing to do with CGC. However, CGC does make these types of comics easier to trade. I would never, ever bid a true NM+ price on a raw comic from any dealer online, without being able to inspect the comic myself in person (and, if a dealer has a raw NM+ high-priced key, they probably would not let me take it out of the mylar anyway). Knowing that CGC has gone through that same thorough review process gives me the confidence to bid. And, for grades lower than NM I think the CGC values have stabilized quite a bit - more often than not I can nab a CGC 8.5 or 9.0 beauty for at or below Overstreet.

 

Other reasons I like CGC: I have three little kids, and having having my comics in a protective holder like that reduces the probability of damage should one of them sneak into my collection. If I want to read any of them, I have TPB's or readers - I wouldn't read the originals even if they were in open top mylars. Also, if something happens to me the comics have more liquidity, so if my wife needs the money it is more likely she can sell, and less likely she'll get taken by a less-than-scrupulous dealer.

[joe_collector]

Good points Flash and I agree with all of them.

 

The problem isn't the physical slab, the increased liquidity or the enhanced protection, but the longterm effect of "investment slabbing" on the hobby as a whole.

 

I know I've virtually stopped buying comics over the past month, since I do not think current Bronze prices are close to realistic compared to supply. I see auctions with "I'm a longtime collector who has decided to sell my collection.. blah, blah, blah" quite lot on EBay lately, and I know other collectors who are in a definite holding pattern when it comes to significant new purchases.

 

I don't know exactly where it will end up, but I see the collector base shrinking and the speculator/investor base growing, which ain't exactly good news for the future of the hobby.

[Stark This-migration]

I totally agree with you FlashFan. If something happened to me and my wife had to sell my books for whatever reason, at least CGC grades gives her something to stand on. Otherwise she is as liable to get taken by a potential buyer as she is an auto mechanic. I try to keep some records so she isn't totally lost.

[Ian_Levine]

I myself have never bought a cgc book, and never submitted any for grading myself. I'd buy a cgc graded book only if it were priced as though it were raw (ie, typically below guide price). That's because I'd crack it open as soon as I got it, so there would be no added value to me.

 

That's what I've done, with nearly two hundred books.

I won't have a slabbed book in my collection, and as I have thirty one thousand DCs, it was inevitable that I'd have to buy a few slabbed ones just to physically get my hands on them. I threw all the slabs away, but kept the top blue or purple labels. That's how I know I cracked open over two hundred, including Action 1, and Double Action 2.

 

For those who want a fair grade, they're a useful tool (although that joke of a mouldy and foxing-covered Action 1 with a huge piece out where the Number 1 should have been, graded at 2.5, and the Heritage Detective 27 with a big piece out of the cover graded at 4.5, make me wonder), but as a tool to crank up prices and make books unreadable, the whole shooting match has become a joke.

 

Sorry boys from CGC, nothing personal, especially to Steve Borok, and especially considering the daily pleasure we all get from using your forum, but the whole concept of slabbing has done IRREPARABLE damage..... IN MY HUMBLE OPINION.

[goldust40]

I myself have never bought a cgc book, and never submitted any for grading myself. I'd buy a cgc graded book only if it were priced as though it were raw (ie, typically below guide price). That's because I'd crack it open as soon as I got it, so there would be no added value to me.

 

That's what I've done, with nearly two hundred books.

I won't have a slabbed book in my collection, and as I have thirty one thousand DCs, it was inevitable that I'd have to buy a few slabbed ones just to physically get my hands on them. I threw all the slabs away, but kept the top blue or purple labels. That's how I know I cracked open over two hundred, including Action 1, and Double Action 2.

 

For those who want a fair grade, they're a useful tool (although that joke of a mouldy and foxing-covered Action 1 with a huge piece out where the Number 1 should have been, graded at 2.5, and the Heritage Detective 27 with a big piece out of the cover graded at 4.5, make me wonder), but as a tool to crank up prices and make books unreadable, the whole shooting match has become a joke.

 

Sorry boys from CGC, nothing personal, especially to Steve Borok, and especially considering the daily pleasure we all get from using your forum, but the whole concept of slabbing has done IRREPARABLE damage..... IN MY HUMBLE OPINION.

 

HUMBLE?

[deathlok]

I myself have never bought a cgc book, and never submitted any for grading myself. I'd buy a cgc graded book only if it were priced as though it were raw (ie, typically below guide price). That's because I'd crack it open as soon as I got it, so there would be no added value to me.

 

That's what I've done, with nearly two hundred books.

I won't have a slabbed book in my collection, and as I have thirty one thousand DCs, it was inevitable that I'd have to buy a few slabbed ones just to physically get my hands on them. I threw all the slabs away, but kept the top blue or purple labels. That's how I know I cracked open over two hundred, including Action 1, and Double Action 2.

 

For those who want a fair grade, they're a useful tool (although that joke of a mouldy and foxing-covered Action 1 with a huge piece out where the Number 1 should have been, graded at 2.5, and the Heritage Detective 27 with a big piece out of the cover graded at 4.5, make me wonder), but as a tool to crank up prices and make books unreadable, the whole shooting match has become a joke.

 

Sorry boys from CGC, nothing personal, especially to Steve Borok, and especially considering the daily pleasure we all get from using your forum, but the whole concept of slabbing has done IRREPARABLE damage..... IN MY HUMBLE OPINION.

 

HUMBLE?

[Ian_Levine]

IN MY HUMBLE OPINION.

 

HUMBLE?

 

 

YES ..... humble.

[Red Hook]

Crack slab.......remove label......send to cgc so they can remove from the book from the census? Right?

[goldust40]

IN MY HUMBLE OPINION.

 

HUMBLE?

 

 

YES ..... humble.

 

'umble?

[musicmeta]

Yes, I think overall, CGC has been GREAT for comics. People can now buy comics without fear of a comic being restored or vastly overgraded.

Ever stop and ask yourself why did CGC become so popular in the first place?

[garthgantu]

There's a difference between humble and vocal. You can be vocal about your beliefs while still maintaining a significant degree of humility.

 

Back to the issue at hand: CGC's effect on the back issue market.

 

I'm not opposed to the concept of grading/slabbing services in general, but CGC represents an interesting and rather schizophrenic mix of professionalism and amateurishness.

 

CGC's ability to consistently grade books within eras, and detect restoration a very high % of the time, are to be commended and certainly can be beneficial to the "community" as a whole.

 

But on the other hand, CGC has shown itself to be less than professional in other areas, such as:

- inconsistent grading across ages

...GA books receive much more 'forgiving' grading than SA or BA books. This sends a confusing message to the market, especially to newcomers to comic collecting. How can a 60-year old book with a blunted corner and two spine creases get a NM 9.4, while a 10- or 20- or even 30-year old book with the same defects has trouble garnering a 9.0 ?

 

- sloooow turnaround times

...if you want to be the "gold standard" for grading and encapsulation, you have to keep your promises, even the ones that might strike you as trivial. They may not be trivial to your customer base. So if you're behind schedule, either keep people working through the weekend, or hire a lot more help.

 

- different criteria for defining "restoration" across different ages

...As in the first point above, there is no logical explanation for this policy, other than "we asked some BSDs back in the day whether they'd be underwhelmed if half their GA keys came back in PLODs, and they said yes." If you're setting yourself up as the official arbiter of grading and restoration detection, at least be consistent. Why is very minor color touch on a Bats 14 okay, but not on Bats 214 ?

 

- lack of disclosure on grading and restoration evaluation policies

...Here's what's a boon to the back issue market: books like the Overstreet Price Guide and the OS Grading Guide. Why? Well, first, they don't claim to be anything more than "guides." Second, they illustrate their points thoroughly and provide written criteria for grades. Third, they don't distinguish between, or "favor," books from one Age vs. another - the same criteria apply to all books, whether 65 years old or 6 months old.

 

CGC will never be the final word in grading and restoration until they state definitively and comprehensively what their criteria are for grading and restoration detection.

 

So overall I'd say CGC has the opportunity to positively effect the back issue market, but right now the jury is still out in most respects.

[Kevin Boyd]

All I can say is shame on those of you who support CGC and have looked at the poll and not voted against this fellow's wild accusations.

 

I find it hard to believe that 85% or more of the people that post here feel that CGC is bad for the industry.... oops... he edited the title .... bad for comics.

[FFB]

- lack of disclosure on grading and restoration evaluation policies

...Here's what's a boon to the back issue market: books like the Overstreet Price Guide and the OS Grading Guide. Why? Well, first, they don't claim to be anything more than "guides." Second, they illustrate their points thoroughly and provide written criteria for grades. Third, they don't distinguish between, or "favor," books from one Age vs. another - the same criteria apply to all books, whether 65 years old or 6 months old.

 

Hi Garth:

 

Good post and I agree with a lot of it -- but just for the sake of clarification, I wanted to point out that the Overstreet Grading Guide does have some different standards applicable to golden age books. Both the NM+ 9.6 and NM 9.4 sections indicate that bindery tears of certain sizes are more "allowable" in these grades for golden age books than they are for silver age and later books.

[DKB]

What was the impetus behind Overstreet moving the highest grade it priced from 9.4 to 9.2? The arrival and popularity of CGC the driving force there? There a precendent for this? Was it ever 9.6? Educate me!

[Murph]

It's a modern forum. Most of the collectors on there go after the modern stuff, and collect lower grade B.A. and maybe S.A. I can understand their viewpoint regarding CGC because I myself don't even like CGC's aspect in the modern market.

 

Brian

[goldust40]

What was the impetus behind Overstreet moving the highest grade it priced from 9.4 to 9.2? The arrival and popularity of CGC the driving force there? There a precendent for this? Was it ever 9.6? Educate me!

 

You answered your own question there - CGC's alpha grading system and its' popularity, coupled with the effect that HG CGC books were having on the market, effected the change. Apparently the 9.4 and above market was too "volatile" to be dealt with accurately in the OS (which is a sweeping and specious statement, to be honest).

 

The only precedent for the current grading scale would've been Overstreet's Numerical Equivalent (ONE) which had a grading scale of 1-100, which did prove unwieldy as it required far more precision than CGC's model. The top (NM) column had, prior to this year, been 94 or 9.4 for the last decade or so, but was never above that grade.

 

It never was "9.6" as such a grade didn't exist until CGC. We had to make do with "NM+"

[Kevin Boyd]

True enough, but CGC is providing the service, not buying or selling the books in question..

 

If the problem people have with moderns is that speculators are fueling the modern market by submitting comics such as the Conan #1 second print that received a grade of 10.0 that sparked the poll then how is CGC the evil party in the scenario?

 

As far as I see it, people send their books to CGC for the service, pay for it and CGC grades the book. Is the service to blame for the end result?

 

That is, if you feel the end result between the buyer and the seller is a negative.

[Kevin Boyd]

It never was "9.6" as such a grade didn't exist until CGC. We had to make do with "NM+"

 

Right. But Overstreet did not provide prices for books that were "NM+" or "Mint".

 

They would only give a price for "NM" books.