Is CGC good for comics?

[Murph]

It also makes one wonder what people have to do to get "real" pedigrees validated by CGC? Sure MHC bought their way onto labels for the MH2 and the DS books, but stuff that REALLY deserves a label such as the Golden State collection and/or the Cleveland collection are left out in the cold. I don't think you should be able to buy your way on to a label regardless of how many books you send in. If it's worthy of a pedigree or special notation, do so.. but don't do so just because the submitter sent in 1,000,000 copies.

 

Brian

[metropoliscomics]

I believe CGC is good for the market because it allows people who would never buy comics to come into the market. This creates a stronger market for everybody.

 

VZ

[FFB]

I believe CGC is good for the market because it allows people who would never buy comics to come into the market. This creates a stronger market for everybody.

 

VZ

 

Good theme sentences. Now explain.

[sterlingcomics]

I believe CGC is good for the market because it allows people who would never buy comics to come into the market. This creates a stronger market for everybody.

 

VZ

 

Good theme sentences. Now explain.

 

There's probably a segment of the collecting community who have limited purchases or left the hobby altogether because of the disparate grading practices of sellers. CGC levels the playing field, promotes confidence, which therefore increases sales of books.

 

Does that cover it, Vincent?

[sterlingcomics]

It also makes one wonder what people have to do to get "real" pedigrees validated by CGC? Sure MHC bought their way onto labels for the MH2 and the DS books, but stuff that REALLY deserves a label such as the Golden State collection and/or the Cleveland collection are left out in the cold. I don't think you should be able to buy your way on to a label regardless of how many books you send in. If it's worthy of a pedigree or special notation, do so.. but don't do so just because the submitter sent in 1,000,000 copies.

 

Brian

 

Has Chuck sent it 1 million books, or are you exaggerating? Based on his comments, it seems to me his interaction with CGC is minimal, at best. Just look at his "Tales from the Database" articles, and look at his CGC inventory relative to the kabillion raw books he has. Hmmm, tad optimistic on those grades?

 

I've sent 3 advertised NM books from MH to CGC, two came back 8.0 and one 7.0 . So, if you buy at his 50% off + additional % off sale, you might be getting what you pay for. This alone tells me who's been and who's been

[Murph]

It's definately an exageration because we all know Chuck can't grade his stuff for [!@#%^&^] anymore. But it stands to reason that he did submit a lot of books, as from what I read in the past, Steve said they'd put what you want on the label if you submit a large sum of books. Now what is a large sum of books? I'd take it ot mean at least 10,000 but I'm sure others have different interpretations? Regardless, it does appear the label is "for hire" if you submit a lot of books and IMO it should be kept to pedigrees.

 

Brian

[sterlingcomics]

Personally, these additional messages stick out like a sore thumb to me--heck if they are going to do that, let's bring back the "Date Stamp on Back cover" type of info--at least it's informative

 

Oh, I forgot. The people with money have spoken... Silly me.

[lighthouse]

It's definately an exageration because we all know Chuck can't grade his stuff for [!@#%^&^] anymore. But it stands to reason that he did submit a lot of books, as from what I read in the past, Steve said they'd put what you want on the label if you submit a large sum of books. Now what is a large sum of books? I'd take it ot mean at least 10,000 but I'm sure others have different interpretations? Regardless, it does appear the label is "for hire" if you submit a lot of books and IMO it should be kept to pedigrees.

 

Brian

 

The pedigree notation and the "from the collection" notation are in separate places... I realize that's a fine distinction for the newbies, but it's true nonetheless.

 

Steve said at the San Diego forum dinner last year that a 1,000 book submitter could get a "from the collection of" notation. I really don't see that as being a big deal. It doesn't affect the grades, and that kind of special treatment on a $30K+ submission fee is a in my book...

 

If you bought a book labelled "from the Jibba Jabba collection" and it bugged you, you could always reholder it...

[Murph]

I don't see any distinction between the 2 on the new labels..

 

FF 141 Mile High 2 non-pedigree

 

Cap 117 PC pedigree

 

Brian

[deathlok]

I don't see any distinction between the 2 on the new labels..

 

FF 141 Mile High 2 non-pedigree

 

Cap 117 PC pedigree

 

Brian

 

Steve said only a finite number of books from the MH2 got that designation. Anything submitted after that would not get that designation.

[Murph]

Wow, the MH2 stuff gets recognized as a pedigree (when it's not IMO) meanwhile other pedigrees (Golden State, Cleveland, etc) are left in the cold. Interesting..

 

Brian

[Illiterati-migration]

I believe CGC is good for the market because it allows people who would never buy comics to come into the market. This creates a stronger market for everybody.

 

VZ

 

Because speculators are good for the back-issue market? What about new books??

 

Seems to me that one can't survive without the other, and speculators have hurt both ends of the spectrum in the past...

[FFB]

I believe CGC is good for the market because it allows people who would never buy comics to come into the market. This creates a stronger market for everybody.

 

VZ

 

Because speculators are good for the back-issue market? What about new books??

 

Seems to me that one can't survive without the other, and speculators have hurt both ends of the spectrum in the past...

 

Wasn't it the speculators who bought multiples of new issues who took off and caused the last "market crash"? (That's the theory anyway -- I think that the crash happened more because the story and art sucked and turned off a lot of readers who never came back.) I think that to the extent that Vincent is talking about speculators (which is not necessarily the case) he means those who buy high grade, high priced back issues. Those are a totally different kind of collector than a speculator who buys multiples of new issues in my experience. The former tend to be better funded and can tolerate more ups and downs, whereas a couple of bad months of new issue speculation will wipe out many of the new issue speculators. Plus, there will always be at least some significant demand for high grade old books, whereas the demand for the new stuff largely fades away within a matter of months.

[delekkerste]

Wasn't it the speculators who bought multiples of new issues who took off and caused the last "market crash"? (That's the theory anyway -- I think that the crash happened more because the story and art sucked and turned off a lot of readers who never came back.)

 

Yeah, but the story and art sucked (in part) because the publishers were churning out as many lame books as they could for the specs, forcing them to hire second and third-rate talents to keep up!!

[FFB]

Wasn't it the speculators who bought multiples of new issues who took off and caused the last "market crash"? (That's the theory anyway -- I think that the crash happened more because the story and art sucked and turned off a lot of readers who never came back.)

 

Yeah, but the story and art sucked (in part) because the publishers were churning out as many lame books as they could for the specs, forcing them to hire second and third-rate talents to keep up!!

 

Amen to that, but we should note that this was made EVEN WORSE YET by the fact that the publishers told those hacks to try to "draw like Liefeld."

[Ze-man]

Wasn't it the speculators who bought multiples of new issues who took off and caused the last "market crash"? (That's the theory anyway -- I think that the crash happened more because the story and art sucked and turned off a lot of readers who never came back.)

 

Yeah, but the story and art sucked (in part) because the publishers were churning out as many lame books as they could for the specs, forcing them to hire second and third-rate talents to keep up!!

 

Amen to that, but we should note that this was made EVEN WORSE YET by the fact that the publishers told those hacks to try to "draw like Liefeld."

 

 

That era was when I started back into collecting..

And I remember looking at Tod McFarlane's work... then Liefields.. and thinking.. wow.. Todd is a real Artist.. wtf is this other guy?

 

And I mainly remember thinking.. when did comics .. get BOOBIES..? .I was floored..

Then I went straight back to back issue stuff.. and rarely bought much off the rack.

 

If CGC was around back then..

Would we have a million slabbed Baddrock.. and other Liefield pos.

 

And might I ask.. I know companies were pushing out books as fast as possible to cash in on whatever variant was flavor of the month..

Foil..covers

Hologram. covers

Duplicate covers

Embossed

Foil , Hologram, Duplicate, embossed covers..

 

But how was the back issue market..?

Was there alot of activity?.. or was it a mad rush to cash in on the Golden Calf of Variants?

[Kevin Boyd]

These people don't think in that fashion. They'd rather scapegoat, and the easiest target is CGC. The concept of bidders providing the market for this stuff means nothing to them, all that is seen is CGC high grades going for huge prices and pricing them out.. therefore, CGC is the devil.

 

Brian

 

Looks like I got myself into trouble over there and was reminded once again, why I don't post regularly on the CBR forums: the moderators are warning/trigger happy.

 

Ditto for the CPG message boards. I posted something this morning that I didn't feel was that bad at all and it was removed without comment or provocation, it just disappeared. No wonder Hammer can run off about things there, he must either be a moderator or be friends with whoever is. I post a vague remark about Hammer's bad luck with third party grading (in response to one of negative tirades against CGC) and it's gone almost as soon as it's up.

 

I don't think in either case I was particularly rude in my replies, maybe a bit critical, but I didn't resort to name calling or anything like that.

 

Boy have we got it easy here.

[samurai007]

Well, it wasn't really a warning per se, just a polite request to leave AG's business out of the conversation. Tom is a bit faster on draw with the warnings over there, but he's much slower to ban someone than these forums are (if the long list of "banned" individuals in that other thread is any indication). Don't let him scare you off with a polite request...

[Murph]

You did bring up a good point. Why is it perfectly fine to discuss CGC, which is a business, but it's NOT okay to talk about someone elses who just happens to be a board member. Seems very double sided to me.

 

Brian

[Kevin Boyd]

Exactly, he owns his own grading service, but feels free to criticize other grading services, why is his grading business suddenly a private matter?

 

He doesn't like the CGC modern grading game, yet includes moderns in his list of books that he will grade.

 

He says he won't criticize other grading companies as his company policy, yet says whatever he pleases about them on the CBR message boards.

 

Seem a trifle confused if you ask me, which of course, no one did. All I asked was for him to clarify and suddenly it's a private matter that we must discuss off of the board and I'm the bad guy (and god forbid that I might have been a newbie) for prying.

 

Kev