murph0 Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Yes and even though some hoarded them a decent portion of them didn't hoard them well and they got damaged due to poor storage or improper storage. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan36 Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 I could have sworn there was a large wharehoused collection of books from the 40's but I could be wrong, its happened before. Anyway the point stands when you take into consideration the relatively large number of wharehoused collections out there by the 70's coupled with wharehousers/dealers who hoarded wolverine books in the 80's, its safe to say the hulk 181's we see on the market is the tip of the iceberg of whats actually out there. If a good portion of those books was to hit the market at once hulk 181 would lose a substantial portion of its worth. I think thats just a fact everyone has to come to terms with in this business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph0 Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 So let's see..all these dealers had the foresight to hoard Hulk 181 b/c Wolverine was easily seeable as one of the top characters of all-time. Yep, I could definately not see that. You can give me 1980's and up massively hoarded and still in HG, but I don't the there's thousands and thousands of NM or better copies of Hulk 181 out there. Also, could everyone stop spelling warehouse wharehouse..it looks far too much like whorehouse. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan36 Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 By the 1980's people who track comic trends knew with some certainty that Wolverine key's would appreciate dramatically. In fact it was the most obvious trend in the 80's comic market by far. So logically a number of speculators of this sort amassed a substantial number of Hulk 181. This isnt some form of fairy tale, theres money involved, big money, if you don't realize this i'm not going to sit down and educate you on the ways of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph0 Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 So after 6 years of the issue being relatively cold to mild..all these people rushed in and bought all the issues that I'm sure were all in perfect NM or better and then hoarded them until this day..and are going to pull a diamond move a la DeBeers (sp?) and leak them out slowly....uhhh huhhh... not to say I don't believe you, but I don't think I'll be sitting around waiting for the day the census hits 2k for Hulk 181 issues in NM or better, cause I'd probably be sitting and waiting a really loooooonnnnnnnggg time. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan36 Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 I think to some degree Hulk 181 is a good gauge of the overall strength of the collectors/dealers market, if Hulk 181's start coming into CGC at a much faster pace then that will give a better idea of just how many are really out there as well as being a warning sign for people who expect this and other 'hot' books of the time to substantially increase in value from their current positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awe4one Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 GS X-Men #1 and X-Men #94 were eyed for resale value by the dealers pretty early. In fact, I remember a dealer saying that Hulk #181 and the X-Men were going to be the "next big thing" as early as 1977. So the issue was identified pretty early as important by dealers. Remember most all comic stores until the mid-late 80s bought overstock (some in big numbers) as back issues were a major part of their business. As a result, Hulk #181 is fairly common in high grade. In fact, there are probably more high grade #181s out there than Ghost Rider #1 (came out a year earlier) because of the quick identification as "important". Now will supply ever satisfy demand enough to bring the issue's price down? I think so due to the waning appeal of the character due to overexposure and the general fragmentation of the X-titles as more high grade issues are found being released by collectors. And don't fool yourselves. There are those HG copies out there. Almost all collectors "I" know have a HG copy in their collections and usually more than one. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COI Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 I agree that there are a lot of nice copies out there, but I'm also inclined to think that a large number have already been graded. That being said, I think the best way to go on this book is to buy the highest possible grade. I'm working on my Silver keys right now, but when I decide to pick up a copy, I will definitley be in the market for a 9.6. IMO, a 9.6 is a bargain at just over 3 grand(if you can afford it, that is), especially when you consider that 9.2's consistently sell for around $1200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awe4one Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 I agree that there are a lot of nice copies out there, but I'm also inclined to think that a large number have already been graded. Why? I tend to think only a small percentage of collectors have actually used CGC services. Dealers definitely...EBay enthusiastists probably....the common collector, unless selling their comics, probably not. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisco37 Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 True, But how many "common collectors" have HG Hulk #181's sitting around? I'm leaning more towards Andrew's arguement. Most (not ALL) of the nicest copies have been graded. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awe4one Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 I'd be willing to bet quite a few. Again the book was identified as a major issue very early. Collectors scooped them up when it was very cheap early as a result. Most collectors are willing to sit on their comics and not sell. These comics are just sitting in closets in boxes waiting to see daylight again. Now in the next decade or two though watch out. These collectors will near retirement age and then they WILL be willing to sell. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see a significant number of HG silver see daylight as well in the next 10 years. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonds25 Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Nah. I bet there are hundreds and hundreds of high grade copies in boxes, in warehouses, on comic store shelves, etc etc etc. I'm sure there will be over 700 9.4 or higher copies in the next 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 I don't have my high grade Hulk 181 yet! I think so due to the waning appeal of the character due to overexposure The most overexposed characters in comics history are Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man. I'd say the early issues of those characters have quite a healthy market! I haven't seen evidence that overexposure does long-term damage to key issues for the overexposed character; it just hurts the values of the books that came out during the overexposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COI Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 If anyone has "boxes and boxes" of NM or higher Hulk 181's, they'd have to be pretty stupid not to send at least a small fraction to CGC. At 2K + per copy, who in their right minds would not certify a decent portion at least? Especially if they paid next to nothing for them in the 70's and early-mid 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingDonut Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 You're making a BIG assumption - that people who bought those books KNOW about CGC. I have two friends who were giant comic collectors with me in high school and college but sort of drifted away from the hobby due to 1) jobs 2) kids 3) hideous product. Their collections both are very nice, high grade stuff (even then we were picky), with these books: Cris: Fantastic Four 1-250 (first 50 or so are your typical mid-grade Silver, rest is HG) Amazing Spider-Man 1-200 (same) Hulk 102-somewhere in the 1980s (the 181 is, if I remember correctly, gorgeous) bunch of Iron Mans, bunch of other stuff Mark: Cerebus 1-200 or so (he may still be buying it, I don't know), all very very high grade Captain America 100-240 or so Tales of Suspense 63-99 in VERY high grade (he was picky) and a bunch of other stuff. The point is that these two guys have collections, and until I talked to them about their books, had no idea that CGC existed. They don't read comics anymore, etc. etc. So yes, I'll be there are more collections out there. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that there is a motherload out there somewhere. And on the Hulk 181, just a personal anecdote - I tried to buy one via mail order from Richard Alf in 1976. He said he was completely sold out and couldn't keep them in stock. So even then people knew about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph0 Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 When all said and done, I'll believe it when I see it..until then all these "warehouse" stories and "long box" stories are as much a myth as the Lochness Monster. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingDonut Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 You're welcome to Mark and Cris' email addresses, if you'd like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph0 Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Are they selling? If not, I don't really care.. I'm talking about all these ppl who constantly claim warehouses full of comics and long boxes full of high grade keys..unless it becomes a reality, it's always going to be a myth. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonds25 Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 I don't think it's so much a case of warehouses full of nothing but keys, but there are rooms and stores, etc that probably have tons of boxes of old comics that haven't been opened yet. So while I doubt there will be a massive find of 500 high grade copies of Hulk #181, it's very possibly there are 500 copies in high grade in various collections, etc. I'm sure you'd agree? Or maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordanabigail Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Gene - off topic, but I saw your quote in the post. Ever read a book called To Reign in Hell by Steven Brust? A great "fantasy/thriller" about the creation of Heaven and Hell and how Lucifer, Satan, etc...started out on the "good" side!! Cool stuff... Back to on-topic. I don't understand all the talk about people hoarding books and sitting on copies in NM, etc...Don't you all think that if someone owned some comic books that were worth a lot of money, they would either: Get the book slabbed and sell it Get the book slabbed and not sell it Sell it unslabbed Hold onto it 4 choices. And by now, if all these people had bought up NM copies, don't you all think they would be showing up on eBAY and elsewhere? OR, these copies will never see the light of day...I don't think we'll see too many 9.6 or higher copies of Hulk 181 between now and who knows when. I could be wrong, but I don't see it happening... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
