BronzeBruce13 Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Ahhhhh! Don't say that or you'll see a bronzebruce13 obituary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthdiesel Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 BB13 - makes a lot of sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugaboo-migration Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Ok.......as a lot of you have suspected......I'm an insufficiently_thoughtful_person. I just now noticed that bronzebruce's avatar of Spongebob Squarepants has wolverines claws, his funky headgear, the black stripes on his side, and the X-Men logo on his pants. I like Spongebob and thought it was a funny avatar......but now.....it's so much better for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthdiesel Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 I wonder if making and wearing a T-shirt with this on it would get me into some legal problems over creator rights: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugaboo-migration Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 And I wonder why they thought it was necessary to make a bulge in Spongebobs pants right below the "X". Does he really need to be anatomically correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthdiesel Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Does he really need to be anatomically correct? I believe that was bronzebruce's touch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugaboo-migration Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 bronzebruce is a guy......I don't think he should be "touching" him there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Come on, now...please be tolerant of BronceBruce's desire to creatively touch SpongeBob Wolverine south of the border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BronzeBruce13 Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Thanks Carl... at least that makes two of us for now. I had to force myself to end that lengthy post a bit early. I had a few more ramblings on the topic...but once I get going I notice my damn posts are too long and are probably passed over. Generally forumites don't want to read a novel. I pass over the really long ones too sometimes. Anyway.. its a new day and I can add a few thoughts now... Elaborating on Points #1 & #2 from previous posting: >>Although it must happen, I'm wondering how probable is it that "casual fan" type collectors (which is where I feel the vast majority of unaccounted for comics are in the forgotten collections of) managed to preserve many of their pre-1975 comics at today's CGC level NM or better. This type of collector, especially back nearly 30 years, was not "ultra-condition conscious" and also did not "seem" to be well-equipped for proper long term storage* either. Going back, there were also less grading categories (less than the many in-between grades that we now have) and a NM book was certainly thought to be something much different than it is today and a few more defects were allowable in a NM. Considering all that, and that in general, grading/condition was not nearly the concern that it is today, I'm betting only a small percentage of people (outside of dealers, speculators and the seriously devoted collector) really were super obsessed that their "newer" books (back then) remained truly flawless... or enough to earn a CGC level 9.4 and up. I'm guessing the books that were truly valuable at that point received the most attention and the best care...such as the SA portion of one's collection. Even so, that group could easily account for a good number of HG books, but at the same time, if this is all accurate, it may dispel the idea that the many unaccounted for collections contain a high percentage of 9.4 and up pre '75 books. I feel that a disproportionate number of the higher grade books (in relation to the amount produced and unaccounted for ) naturally have been submitted. I also don't believe that there are stacks of desirable issues or especially "mega keys" in the hands of dealers that are aware of their value and have the restraint not to CGC them. Most would want to cash in on the incredible prices now as there are no guarantees that they will do better later. How can anyone have that much confidence that things will only go up all the while seeing competitors selling their copies for great money and depleting the demand pool? They wouldn't... right?...they would CGC those puppies, maybe slowly, and cash in.. at least partially. Human nature. *I'm still hoping someone can shed some light on the comic backerboard issue I raised... and even polyethylene bags and mylar... in terms of when the products were introduced to the hobby?... and when would it be fair to say the practice of using each started to become common. I'm betting it was post 1975 obviously. If so, it would seem to support the idea that there is indeed a correlation between the lower supply of HG early bronze (1970-1975) vs. the more plentiful later bronze(1975-1979). Circulation is probably a factor too... BUT did comic preservation improve in the mid 70's?? ... James?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BronzeBruce13 Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 And I wonder why they thought it was necessary to make a bulge in Spongebobs pants right below the "X".Does he really need to be anatomically correct? Hi Bug... I've enjoyed your posts (except for that web generated complaint stuff)... hilarious AFTER I found out you were not coming up with that yourself. I was befuddled for a few days there trying to figure out how the hell you could quickly load that much convoluted BS in so many posts. Anyway... any reason your eye was drawn to "Spongeverine's" little spongebulge no one else ever mentioned it, even when it was posted full size. I thought eventually someone would notice and get a kick out of it...but it took the bug to do it I will be doing an amalgam of Patrick Starfish and the Thing when I get time. I always thought it was funny how all the female super heroes had every bump and bulge highlighted, but all the studly heroes were illustrated as if they had no willie. Poor SOB's.. save the universe, but afraid to take advantage of the "superhero-groupies" because they would be afraid word would get out that "Thor was a stubby" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BronzeBruce13 Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 call me after football is over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthdiesel Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 I'm still hoping someone can shed some light on the comic backerboard issue I raised... Just my input and maybe mr. highgrade can back me up on this. As late as 1989, my local store in Queens, NY did not use backerboards and charged a nickel a bag and 10 cents per board...talk about nickel and diming things. All their issues for people to thumb through had NO boards...even the precious SIlver Age commons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingDonut Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 The first show I ever did was the Chicago Comicon in 1977 - we bagged and boarded all of our books specifically for that show, and were in the definite minority at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BronzeBruce13 Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Thanks Dan, Were the boards available and being used by collectors though for their special books at least... at, or prior to 1977? Was the use perhaps regional.. were other areas onto the idea earlier? Do you feel there is merit to the theory I proposed that books that were stored before the regular use of backer boards have been harder to find in grade? Specifically earlier bronze vs. later bronze? Please elaborate if you have a moment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbanner Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 The 1976-1977 Overstreet price guide (No. 6) has a section on storing and preserving comics that specifically mentions the use of bags, and even mentions using mylar! The back cover has an ad for "Clear Plastic Comic Bags" from Robert Bell - I still see these occasionally and they're hard to miss since they have his name written all over them. I also remember going to the Book Gallery in G-ville (downtown by the library) in the mid-70's where I bought back issues for 10-cents, and there were books in bags behind the counter on a special display shelf. If only I'd bought that Hulk #6!!! Overstreet Price Guide #6 is also the 1st guide that X-men 94 showed up in, and it was identified as "New X-men begin". Hulk 181 wasn't broken out until the 1978-1979 guide. The stack of Spideys Ted showed us came out about a year after Hulk 181, so there was obviously hoarding going on at that time. The 9.6 Ghost Rider I sold you came to me in an unbagged/unboarded stack (as do all the books from that collection), and many of them have garnered 9.6 and 9.8's, so a bag/board aren't necessarily needed to keep these puppies brand-new looking. I know for a fact a raw "NM" copy, as well as a CGC 9.2 and 9.4, came out of the same collection, so there's another hoarder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BronzeBruce13 Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Hey Mike.. I know it can happen sometimes. I said as much in one of the posts. It has to happen just from the law of averages and dumb luck too. You said something that seems to be another important factor I did not think of originally... storing the books flat in a "stack" as opposed to upright (with or without bags). I've heard about similar finds in which the books were stored similarly. It seems "stacking" may indeed be a superior method vs. upright storage for reducing the possibility of stresses. When upright, it's easy when navigating through the box, to put enough pressure on the book to cause a stress or 2. When the books are not tightly packed, they can get damaged as well. When stacked, one could grab a small handful and fan through it without applying pressure to the spine. I understand more than a few pedigree collections were discovered like this. Also, RJ claims to have stored all his books in stacks. The gentlemen I spoke of with the Hulk 181's was more of an "after-the-fact" hoarder. I got the impression he accumulated them over the past 10 years when he identified them as being an excellent investment. I know some hoarding went on even then, but they fall into the speculator category I spoke of as being a possible source of some of the high grades. If one was buying multiples, their motives are apparent for the most part, and they would have to take storage more seriously. Apparently, stacking unread copies carefully, even without bags and/or boards still has led to some hg surviving copies. It would be interesting to know if most collectors in the 70's were storing their books stacked or upright. I'm betting the answer to that may have to do with... when the properly sized comic box was introduced... anyone? I believe I read some of your posts back away when you were debating Comicinvestor and you were of the opinion that a large portion of the HG 70's stuff has already been found. Are you still of that opinion...or do you feel there is tons more out there? btw.. CI PM'd me saying as he recalls, backer boards started to come into vogue around '73-'74. If you factor in that it may have taken many a year or two to get their favorite books into boards too... it seems to suggest that storage methods may have taken a positive turn in the mid 70's with bags, boards, mylar, etc. thus affecting the HG survival rate of comics from there on. The mystery thickens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingDonut Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 We all stacked our books back then in piles. I remember the first time we found out to keep them upright was from Overstreet 6, which I would imagine was the first one to get national distribution. I would imagine backing boards were fully out by 1977 or 1978. And again, just a personal anecdote - I tried to order a back issue Hulk 181 from Richard Alf in 1976 and was told he couldn't keep them in stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 ComicInvestor PM'ed you? He reads but doesn't post? ComicInvestor...post, you big baby!!! We used to attack you for the arrogant attitude, but I think almost everybody thought you made a lot of valuable observations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BronzeBruce13 Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 Hmmmmm. give me a rough time line? books were primarily stacked without bags from...19__ to 19__ books were primarily stacked with bags from... 19__ to 19__ (or were they) books were primarily stored upright (with or without bags)... 19__ to 19__ books were primarily stored upright (with bags and boards)... 19__ to .... or something like this. Try and pin down the evolution of the usage of the various storage improvements you recall. What about the comic box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisco37 Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 When I first started collecting back issues (1985?), the shop I went to had probably 80-90% of their books in just bags. Only certain issues were boarded. They also had a few books in Mylar's. The first "Mylar book" I bought was a FF #21, probably a Fine. Wish I still had it. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
