ninanina Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 I started collecting in 1977. The comic shop I was buying my new comics from had back issues in bags with no backer board displayed upright. I remember selling him my near mint Batman comics around the time the first movie came out and he immediately placed them in his bins without backer boards. I remember finding this very odd at the time. I suspect that most of the collectors at the time couldn't care less about a couple spine stress marks on the spine and did not realize how important that would be in today's market. As for myself, I stored everything flat with a comic bag (no backers) Today, I am continuing to store them flat. What I do is put 2 comics in a bag back to back. This gives the bag more stability when handling and when in a pile. When I used to put only one comic in a bag, the pile eventually kinda leaned a bit because the side with the spine, always was higher than the right side. On comics that I hoarded, no bag was used and it shows in the condition they are in now. Still pretty decent, as my storage conditions were pretty ideal, but there is more noticable tanning compared to ones that were bagged. Most of the comics that I bought off the shelf since 1977 are still NM. A few may have come down to VF+ but that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbanner Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 The problem with storing books in stacks is unless every other book is flipped (or 50% are flipped) or the stack is kept nice and neat, you end up with "curved" spines as the books are thicker along the spine. Also, dust shadows and weird bends/curves end up on books that are slightly off-set in a stack. A friend of the family has a collection of books from the mid-60's that he bought off the stands and took good care of. About 6-7 years ago he showed them to me - no boards, no bags, NM looking books but many of them had these defects. I brought him 2 long boxes and 500 boards/bags the next week! As his daughter is a senior in HS this year, I'm hoping to bring this collection to the market this summer or fall! Those early Overstreets (6-7-8) also have advertisements for comic boxes, and even VPD (Vapor Phase Deacidification) paper. I don't have Overstreets 1-5, but would be curious what kinds of articles/ads they had for preservation supplies??? I believe the "debate" you are referring to had to do with CI's claim that since the market was down, he couldn't find the books he was looking for anymore. My point was that the high CGC prices had already brought the "available" books to the market. By "available", I mean those books in the collections of "active" collectors and dealers that sell on-line, know what CGC is, and are willing to sell. Me and Greggy are perfect examples of this phenomena with regards to selling, and the "friend of the family" is a perfect example of an inactive collector with great books but who probably has never heard of CGC. I have no doubt that there are tons of undiscovered books from the late 60's to present out there - and since the inception of this forum my view has changed towards thinking there are more, rather than less. Finally, from my personal experience in trying to find books for myself (and buying pieces/parts of 4-5 original owner collections of late silver/early bronze), there's a huge difference in trying to get NM copies of books from 1970-1973 as opposed to 1974 and later. I'll buy just about any 20-cent NM Marvel at full guide...anyone got any for sale?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BronzeBruce13 Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 ...tons of undiscovered books from the late 60's to present out there - Absolutely, my question is... is there tons of CGC level NM/NM+ or better? Is that what you are saying? If you have trouble finding early Bronze 1970-1973 (and include 1974 in the easier to find category? or is it more in the middle somewhere?) vs. 1975 to 1979... what is your theory for the lack of supply of early bronze in NM or better? Circulation? Storage Method Improvements? Apathy to the offered titles? ... what's the answer? Late Silver keys are very plentiful I understand. I'm obviously no Silver age expert but I've heard that Marvel printed quite a few. I guess I could check the Standard Catalog but I don't feel like getting up off my to check when you'll tell me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark88 Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Direct distribution to comicshops started around 1975. That is 1 of the reasons there is lots of backstock on Marvel #1s from that more common bronze period (e.g. Giant Size squarebounds & Annuals). Also, I don't think acidic backing boards were readily distributed/used until around 1985 or 1986. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggy Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 As I do have the Overstreet Price Guides #1 to #5, here are the relevant ads/articles in those issues: Issue #1 No articles but a exterior back cover ad by Robert Bell selling his Marvel Comic Bags. Issue #2 As in #1plus there is an interior ad by Jack Hunt for comic bags and identification labels. Issue #3 There is an article in the beginning section stating the causes of yellowing and aging of comic book paper. In addition, there is a section regarding the prevention of aging and yellowing. Here it is verbatim: 1) Store books in a dar, cool place with an ideal relative humidity of 50% and a temperature of 40 - 50 degree or less. Air conditioning is recommended. Do not use cardboard boxes as most contain harmful acids. Seal books in mylar or other suitable wrappings, containers, bags, or cabinets which will protect them from heat, excessive dampness, ultraviolet light (use tungsten filament lights), and polluted air. 2) The destructive acids in comic book paper can be neutralized by treating with a buffer. Calcium carbonate, ammonia, magnesium carbonate, and sodium pyrophosphate are recommended. A method of application would have to be devised. Spraying the buffer directly on the paper from a spray applicator is recommended. The process takes only 5 to 10 minutes to treat 100 sheets of 6x9 inches. Exposing the paper to ammonia gas is promising also which would not involve wetting the paper. Either treatment, plus proper storage should greatly person_having_a_hard_time_understanding_my_point if not eliminate the aging problem in comic book paper. More ads are poping up in this issue. Here are the following advertisers who are selling bags: 1) Robert Bell 2) Tannar Miles 3) Park Book Store 4) Comic Supplies Co. Issue #4 The article in the beginning section in this issue only mentions the proper way to store the books as mentioned in issue #3. The part regarding the neutralization of acids is not included in this issue. Ads selling bags include the following: 1) Robert Bell 2) Investors Corporation of America Issue #5 Articles in the beginning include the same storage article as in #3 and #4. However, there is a more extensive article regarding the prevention of aging and yellowing. It is reproduced verbatim here: Acids left in comic book paper during manufacture are the primary cause of aging and yellowing. Because of this, many collectors are concerned that their comics will become brittle after so many years, and that nothing can be done to stop it. Their concerns is well-founded of course, but something can be done to neutralize the acids in comic book paper which would greatly person_having_a_hard_time_understanding_my_point, if not eliminate, the problem of aging. The following method of deacidification is highly recommended by David Cushman of Trenton, N.J., who has successfully treated from 50 to 100 books at a time. David has a Ph. D. in Biochemistry and has done extensive research in treating comic book paper. His method is simply exposing the books to gaseous ammonia which is inexpensive and requires no special equipment. Ammonia carbonate is commonly employed as smelling salts because of its rapid dissociation at room temperature to form ammonia gas and ammonium bicarbonate. A handful or more of ammonium carbonate, freshly pulverized, at the bottom of a suitable container such as a polystyrene ice chest will produce enough ammonia gas to neutralize around 30 to 40 comics placed loosely in the container. The completeness of neutralization of the dry comic book pages can be tested if desired by inserting in the comics dry strips of any pH indicating paper that will change color in the dry state upon neutralization by ammonia; but if sufficient ammonium carbonate is employed, and if the comic books are not too tightly packed, neutralization will be completed within four days (for best results invert the stack after two days). NOTE: The ammonia gas will penetrate the pages of the book pages even though several are stacked on top of each other. The permanency of the neutralization is not known. It would be a good idea to repeat the treatment after several years. Ads selling comic bags include the following: 1) Robert Bell 2) Investors Corporation of America -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks all folks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illiterati-migration Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Greggy, what the hell was that? It looked like you were trying to positively contribute to the board for a second there. Knock it off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggy Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 (edited) Yes, unlike others, I stick to my resolutions! Edited January 13, 2003 by greggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illiterati-migration Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Yes, unlike others, I am stick to my resolution! Yes Greggy, you are stick to your resolution. (Where did you people FIND this guy??) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugaboo-migration Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Hey Bruce, Sorry about that earlier web generated stuff. I thought it was pretty funny too but some people didn't appreciate the humor in it. any reason your eye was drawn to "Spongeverine's" little spongebulge no one else ever mentioned it, even when it was posted full size. I thought eventually someone would notice and get a kick out of it...but it took the bug to do it Actually.....I've sort of been attracted to sponges in general since I was a little kid. I was never sure if Spongebob was a girl or boy (could be short for Spongebobbie.....you never know). So.....I was a little dissapointed to see this bulge as I realized then that it would never work out between us. In all honesty.....before I came to this board.....I admired you and also really didn't like you much at the same time. I'd find a book I liked on eBay......wait it out until the end of the auction......and then enter a large bid that I was sure would win the book for me......only to find I'd lost......to some aggrevating s.o.b. named bronzebruce. I always admired your tenacity because I kept thinking "wow"......does this guy ever lose an auction that he wants? It made me feel better when I came to these boards and found out that you were actually a nice guy and a very knowledgeable collector instead of just some goon with money buying books that he knew nothing about because cgc was the "in" thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbanner Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Thanks for the input greggy, good stuff! is there tons of CGC level NM/NM+ or better? No one knows the answer to this, or how many books were stored in bags upon receipt, how many were left unread, or when bags/boards were first commonly used. We only have qualitative discussions of the factors that would play into answering the question, a few real-world examples, and some facts based on what was advertised in Overstreet. It's obvious that the advent of the Direct Market and the availability of the Overstreet price guide had a big effect on the number of surviving/available NM copies. Donut thinks Overstreet #6 was the first issue with wide circulation, so by 1975 the back issue comic book market was alive and kicking, people were aware that old comic books were valuable, and collectors were informed as to how to take care of their books. Also, within 3-4 years of publication, Hulk 181 was identified as a "key" book and the "new" X-men were taking off. 1974 is definitely a tweener year...unless I'm mistaken books were 20-cents in January, and 25-cents by December? Don't get me wrong here, I think Hulk 181 is a great book that's on everbody's want list, and I'm the last person that should criticize anyone for spending too much (over market prices) on a comic book they really want as I do it all the time. But for investment purposes, IMHO the "hoarder" got in while the getting was good, and if buying a 9.6 white will cost you 4k right now (and many here seem to think it would be a good "investment"), it would have to be going for around 8k in 10 years to keep up with a relatively conservative investment portfolio, and around 10k to be ahead of the game. There simply are not many people in this country that can afford to spend ten thousand dollars on a comic book... All that said, anyone have a VF/VF+ Hulk 181 available for sale/trade (and I'm not kidding)?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggy Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Mike, I have been a previous post by Donut and he mentioned that he was bagging and boarding his comics in the late 1970s. Do you have any recollection of there being commercially available boards at that time? Odin88 stated that he believes that boards became commercially available in the mid-1980s, which is probably closer to what I believe may be correct, as far as my local are is concerned. I took a break from buying comics from 1982 to sometime in 1989. When I stopped in 1982, I don't recall seeing any books with backing boards. But when I came back, they were everywhere! Oh well, perhaps a review of all the other Overstreets may be in order! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbanner Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Apparently CI PM'ed Bruce and said backing boards were in use in the 73-74 timeframe, but I didn't see any ads for them in OS 6 or 7. Yes, a review of old OS's is in order to determine when they were being advertised!! I was also out of the comic collecting hobby from about '82 to '86, and in '86 when I returned I was using Mylars on my expensive books. I wasn't really old enough in the 70's to remember using boards, and most of the bags I used either came from books I bought at shows/mail order, or my paper route paper bags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingDonut Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 I was nutty into collecting from 1975-1990 or so. All of my books were boarded by 1980, definitely by college in 1982. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 by 1975 the back issue comic book market was alive and kicking, people were aware that old comic books were valuable I thought that it didn't become common knowledge outside of the collecting community to the general American public that comics were valuable until the late 1970s, possibly not widely until the early 1980s. I thought that the main thing that got the word out was the discovery and million-dollar-plus sale of the Mile High collection in 1977/1978. Somebody in these forums said that Church's widow sued Rozanski once she heard about the sale in the news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awe4one Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 I believe it was much earlier than that. Action #1 made national news a couple times in the early 70s after being sold (one for $25,000 in 1972/3? immediately comes to mind). im Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggy Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Well, the price was definitely not $25,000 that early. I believe that it was in the $2,500 range! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awe4one Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Maybe....It was a long time ago but it made the front page of the Miami Herald and was featured on the national news. That wasn't the only Action #1 sale that made the paper either. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark88 Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Let's see, what was a better investment in 1975? 1 copy Action #1 or 1,000 copies of Howard Duck #1? Howard rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthdiesel Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 It made me feel better when I came to these boards and found out that you were actually a nice guy and a very knowledgeable collector instead of just some goon with money buying books that he knew nothing about because cgc was the "in" thing. Unlike...greggy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugaboo-migration Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Yeah......greggys just another frigging spec. driving prices up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
