Fellow Boardies Help, Is my ASM 1 Restored?

[fantastic_four]

That all sounds pike a guy who knows exactly what he had and reeled in the fish before glut got away.

 

+1

 

I'll be quite surprised if he ever agrees to a refund.

[VintageComics]

Did either of you think that edge looks trimmed? It looks like someone took scissors to it to me

 

Yes.

 

 

[gaz2810i]

I went against my better judgement, paid in cash, and did about everything wrong I could have.

 

He'd been a stand up guy until now, sold me a 8.5 Raw ASM 129 and a 9.0 Hulk 181 Raw at under GPA.

 

He told me that there would be no refunds on this, as he's selling it to me as is, and that if I don't buy it he was going to send it off to CGC himself, realizing that it "probably wasn't restored" and he wasn't sure what he was thinking when originally pricing it.

 

 

Wel that all sounds very fishy too me Didn't the alarm bells ring when he said no returns etc?

 

How long ago did you buy it, What grade was it sold at, 8.0? and who was the dealer? UK?

 

I'm usually not for outing dealers etc but on this occasion I think you need to

 

Everything rang bells man, but I was just excited about the chance to pick up a 7.0-8.0 spidey at 10k. Like others said I tried to swim in the deep end before I could swim at all, and drowned.

 

E-mailed the dealer, but I doubt I can get a refund. He's been a stand up guy till now, and I don't want to out him.

 

This is just a very expensive learning lesson, and one that might take me out of the hobby for a bit.

 

No. You need to demand the refund.

 

If he's as stand-up as you say he is, you'll get the refund.

 

It's odd he said "as is". He knew it was restored.

 

If he won't give you the refund, out him.

 

The problem is, if he knew it was restored and sold it too you at full value then he saw you coming and pulled a serious fast one. You say he has been a stand up but if he has done this to you how many others has he done it to or will do it to in the future

 

Is the guy a UK dealer?

[Kevin.J]

The resto on this book is fairly easy to spot, I cant believe a dealer of 30 years experience would not spot this for what it is.

I would take it back to him and tell him that you have had a second opinion and wish a refund and see what he says.

If he says no, direct him to this thread and hopefully he may worry about being outed and any resulting damage to his reputation.

Good luck.

[Joe Kim]

That all sounds pike a guy who knows exactly what he had and reeled in the fish before glut got away.

 

+1

 

I'll be quite surprised if he ever agrees to a refund.

 

I think a refund is highly unlikely.

 

At this point I'm thinking these are my options:

 

Getting it CGC'd, and just holding on to it for a long long time.

 

Sending it to Matt Hunter and either have him try to Resto Remove, or even restore further for a higher apparent grade.

 

Either way I'm going to be losing a couple thousand dollars, and might have to sell off some of my keys just to make up for this.

 

Damn I feel stupid right now...

[TheWatcher]

So the consensus is no point in sending to Matt Hunter? Too far gone for him to do anything?

 

I don't know who Matt Hunter is, but Matt Nelson could only tell you what you already know. Then again, there may be more resto inside the book, say on the centerfold (re-enforcement, etc). Depends on how much bad news you want to get

[Joe Kim]

 

The problem is, if he knew it was restored and sold it too you at full value then he saw you coming and pulled a serious fast one. You say he has been a stand up but if he has done this to you how many others has he done it to or will do it to in the future

 

Is the guy a UK dealer?

 

Yup he's a UK dealer. I really don't want to out him unless its a last case scenario though, I'm just not that kind of person.

[fantastic_four]

So the consensus is no point in sending to Matt Hunter? Too far gone for him to do anything?

 

If it were mine and I was sure I couldn't get a refund, I'd send it to CGC, not Matt Nelson. If it has the work done to it that people are thinking it does, having Matt remove that restoration would wreck the grade, sending it down from the apparent 7.0 range down to the 4.0-5.0 range. If it's trimmed, Matt can't remove that, so it'd be in a purple CGC holder forever anyway, so having him remove some resto while leaving the trimming is mostly a wash. Even if there is no trimming and he removes that stuff along the edge leaving no original paper and you were able to get an unrestored grade, GPA shows that restored 7.0 copies have gone for right around the same amount as unrestored 4.0-5.0 copies have.

[Joe Kim]

So the consensus is no point in sending to Matt Hunter? Too far gone for him to do anything?

 

I don't know who Matt Hunter is, but Matt Nelson could only tell you what you already know. Then again, there may be more resto inside the book, say on the centerfold (re-enforcement, etc). Depends on how much bad news you want to get

 

I meant Matt Nelson. Doesn't he remove restoration, on books as well as press?

[sufunk]

I went against my better judgement, paid in cash, and did about everything wrong I could have.

 

He'd been a stand up guy until now, sold me a 8.5 Raw ASM 129 and a 9.0 Hulk 181 Raw at under GPA.

 

He told me that there would be no refunds on this, as he's selling it to me as is, and that if I don't buy it he was going to send it off to CGC himself, realizing that it "probably wasn't restored" and he wasn't sure what he was thinking when originally pricing it.

 

 

Wel that all sounds very fishy too me Didn't the alarm bells ring when he said no returns etc?

 

How long ago did you buy it, What grade was it sold at, 8.0? and who was the dealer? UK?

 

I'm usually not for outing dealers etc but on this occasion I think you need to

 

Everything rang bells man, but I was just excited about the chance to pick up a 7.0-8.0 spidey at 10k. Like others said I tried to swim in the deep end before I could swim at all, and drowned.

 

E-mailed the dealer, but I doubt I can get a refund. He's been a stand up guy till now, and I don't want to out him.

 

This is just a very expensive learning lesson, and one that might take me out of the hobby for a bit.

 

You should be outing this guy, imo he DEFINITELY screwed you knowingly from what you are saying.

 

Im no resto expert for sure, not even remotely in the league as others posting here and even i could spot that INSTANTLY. not even close! There is no possible way a 30 year dealer didnt see that resto unless he is brain dead. NO POSSIBLEWAY! Especially when you throw in the no refunds, as is part of his sales pitch.

 

I'm not trying to make you feel bad, we all make mistakes and EXPENSIVE ones! I've been in your exact same shoes like 12 years ago so im not trying to be harsh to you and make you feel worse than you already do. But, this guy screwed you plain and simple and THAT makes me sick to my stomach. people like that are the freaking scum of the earth imo. He reeled you in with some nice lesser books and then hit you with the big scam imo. You can think he is stand up but again, that resto is laughable imo and i dont think theres even the slightest chance in hell that he didnt know about it.

 

You definitely should be demanding a refund or threatening him with everything you can think of if he wont. Sellers like that are what gives this hobby and bad name and make a LOT of good collectors sick with it and want out of this great hobby

[chrisco37]

That all sounds pike a guy who knows exactly what he had and reeled in the fish before glut got away.

 

+1

 

I'll be quite surprised if he ever agrees to a refund.

 

I think a refund is highly unlikely.

 

At this point I'm thinking these are my options:

 

Getting it CGC'd, and just holding on to it for a long long time.

 

Sending it to Matt Hunter and either have him try to Resto Remove, or even restore further for a higher apparent grade.

 

Either way I'm going to be losing a couple thousand dollars, and might have to sell off some of my keys just to make up for this.

 

Damn I feel stupid right now...

 

Doesn't hurt to ask for one. Don't send it to Matt for removal. You'll sink even more money into it and it won't be worth it (not that he doesn't do great work, just wouldn't doit for this particular book). Especially if it's trimmed.

 

Based on what others have posted, it seems that you're UK based. If that is correct, is it Daryl?

[TheWatcher]

So the consensus is no point in sending to Matt Hunter? Too far gone for him to do anything?

 

I don't know who Matt Hunter is, but Matt Nelson could only tell you what you already know. Then again, there may be more resto inside the book, say on the centerfold (re-enforcement, etc). Depends on how much bad news you want to get

 

I meant Matt Nelson. Doesn't he remove restoration, on books as well as press?

 

I was just having a laugh He does indeed

[Joe Kim]

I'm giving him a chance to respond to me, but I'll definitely confront him about this.

[Joe Kim]

Doesn't hurt to ask for one. Don't send it to Matt for removal. You'll sink even more money into it and it won't be worth it (not that he doesn't do great work, just wouldn't doit for this particular book). Especially if it's trimmed.

 

Based on what others have posted, it seems that you're UK based. If that is correct, is it Daryl?

 

Nope not Daryl.

[TheWatcher]

If that is correct, is it Daryl?

 

That was the first name that came to mind when he said he lives in the UK

[chrisco37]

Gotta be Silver Acre, right?

[Joe Kim]

I'm not going to out him until I give him a chance to respond.

[Kevin.J]

 

The problem is, if he knew it was restored and sold it too you at full value then he saw you coming and pulled a serious fast one. You say he has been a stand up but if he has done this to you how many others has he done it to or will do it to in the future

 

Is the guy a UK dealer?

 

Yup he's a UK dealer. I really don't want to out him unless its a last case scenario though, I'm just not that kind of person.

 

I bet I (and the other UK boardies) could have a good guess who this is

[fantastic_four]

There is no possible way a 30 year dealer didnt see that resto unless he is brain dead. NO POSSIBLEWAY! Especially when you throw in the no refunds, as is part of his sales pitch.

 

I personally haven't ever met a small shop owner or a dealer at smaller conventions who can detect restoration including the type we think we're seeing in that scan, even ones who have been doing it for decades. If they don't deal in high-end books, they're usually not thinking about restoration and have little or no skill at detecting it.

 

Where do you live, Symbiotic--in the UK near this dealer, or are you in the US? Do you have reason to believe this guy deals in high-end books with any type of regularity?

[r100comics]

That all sounds pike a guy who knows exactly what he had and reeled in the fish before glut got away.

 

+1

 

I'll be quite surprised if he ever agrees to a refund.

 

I think a refund is highly unlikely.

 

At this point I'm thinking these are my options:

 

Getting it CGC'd, and just holding on to it for a long long time.

 

Sending it to Matt Hunter and either have him try to Resto Remove, or even restore further for a higher apparent grade.

 

Either way I'm going to be losing a couple thousand dollars, and might have to sell off some of my keys just to make up for this.

 

Damn I feel stupid right now...

 

I don't want to alarm you but it may be a bit more than a couple of thousand.

 

If you paid $10,000 and it CGC's at an 8.0 Moderate Pro Trimmed (which is generous as it looks lower than an 8.0 and may not have been restored with professional materials), it might be a $3,000 or $4,000 book.

 

Rather than throw good money after bad I'd concentrate all your efforts on getting a credit from the seller.

 

Resto removal isn't an option as too much has been done to the book.