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Fellow Boardies Help, Is my ASM 1 Restored?

Started by Joe Kim,

678 posts in this topic

gaz2810i

gaz2810i

Posted
Posted

TBH reading your account, in the other thread, you knew you were possibly buying a restored book (shrug) The dealer said as much and specifically stated that he feared it was restored and that he was selling it to you at a low price for that very reason. unfortunately for you not a low enough price :facepalm:

 

OK he didn't fully disclose the full extent of the restoration, but assuming he knew enough to know it was restored but not enough to document everything, then he gave you enough info to make an informed decision, which was simply not to buy it for $9.5k. You really should have gone away and found a price that such a book was worth restored and made a counter offer or at least had a CGC based return policy. You took his high price for a restored book and paid regardless and that was a big mistake :eek:

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
TBH reading your account, in the other thread, you knew you were possibly buying a restored book (shrug) The dealer said as much and specifically stated that he feared it was restored and that he was selling it to you at a low price for that very reason. unfortunately for you not a low enough price :facepalm:

 

OK he didn't fully disclose the full extent of the restoration, but assuming he knew enough to know it was restored but not enough to document everything, then he gave you enough info to make an informed decision, which was simply not to buy it for $9.5k. You really should have gone away and found a price that such a book was worth restored and made a counter offer or at least had a CGC based return policy. You took his high price for a restored book and paid regardless and that was a big mistake :eek:

 

As much as I hate that the buyer is taking a loss, this is exactly where I'm at too.

 

People want to gamble (those were the OP's words in the original thread that was started 2 weeks ago) but not have any risk of loss. Well, that's not a gamble, that's stacking the deck in your favour.

 

As far as being a professional seller, I myself would offer a refund on any missed resto but there needs to be some integrity as a buyer as well. We always hear about how there are bad sellers out there but there are also bad buyers...and those are buyers who want to have their cake and eat it too.

 

As a buyer if you are willing to gamble, and that is the exact wording of the OP in the other thread, then you are willing to take a hit when you gamble and lose...especially if all the tell tale signs are there to warn you ahead of time.

 

Again, I'm not hard nosed about it. I can sympathize - but I can also understand ignoring the signs to avoid a deal because I've been there and done than. And lost, learned and moved on.

 

 

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
Considering this my baptism by fire. Not leaving the hobby, just going to get more informed.

 

If the dealer is generous that's a bonus, but most of us learn the VERY hard way.

 

 

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yecul

yecul

Posted
Posted
TBH reading your account, in the other thread, you knew you were possibly buying a restored book (shrug) The dealer said as much and specifically stated that he feared it was restored and that he was selling it to you at a low price for that very reason. unfortunately for you not a low enough price :facepalm:

 

OK he didn't fully disclose the full extent of the restoration, but assuming he knew enough to know it was restored but not enough to document everything, then he gave you enough info to make an informed decision, which was simply not to buy it for $9.5k. You really should have gone away and found a price that such a book was worth restored and made a counter offer or at least had a CGC based return policy. You took his high price for a restored book and paid regardless and that was a big mistake :eek:

 

As much as I hate that the buyer is taking a loss, this is exactly where I'm at too.

 

People want to gamble (those were the OP's words in the original thread that was started 2 weeks ago) but not have any risk of loss. Well, that's not a gamble, that's stacking the deck in your favour.

 

As far as being a professional seller, I myself would offer a refund on any missed resto but there needs to be some integrity as a buyer as well. We always hear about how there are bad sellers out there but there are also bad buyers...and those are buyers who want to have their cake and eat it too.

 

As a buyer if you are willing to gamble, and that is the exact wording of the OP in the other thread, then you are willing to take a hit when you gamble and lose...especially if all the tell tale signs are there to warn you ahead of time.

 

Again, I'm not hard nosed about it. I can sympathize - but I can also understand ignoring the signs to avoid a deal because I've been there and done than. And lost, learned and moved on.

 

 

Let's pretend this was ebay and the seller was robo or bijou. Where do you stand? I don't think willful ignorance is far off from deception.

 

Id be curious about the stated grade and price. If he sauteed it was a 7 or 8 and priced at a 5 to hedge then maybe I could buy the risk argument. From what I gather he paid basically market for a blue.

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted
Let's pretend this was ebay and the seller was robo or bijou. Where do you stand? I don't think willful ignorance is far off from deception.

 

This exact same scenario could have happened in any comic store in America. Ignorance isn't merely willful if there isn't a readily available source for restoration detection available to the hobby, and there really isn't.

 

If this dealer regularly deals in high-end books, then it's a different story.

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DiceX

DiceX

Posted
Posted
Alright guys. I know how to take my licks, but no need to bash on me. I'm already doing enough self-hating for the lot of us....

 

Your suffering will be legendary, even in hell.

 

 

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Anfield Fox

Anfield Fox

Posted
Posted
Alright guys. I know how to take my licks, but no need to bash on me. I'm already doing enough self-hating for the lot of us....

 

I don't think anyone's doing that. Everyone feels bad for you mate :(

 

Everyone here has been burnt before. I hope you get a successful conclusion and stick around, you'll learn a lot and enjoy the hobby even more.

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chrisco37

chrisco37

Posted
Posted
Alright guys. I know how to take my licks, but no need to bash on me. I'm already doing enough self-hating for the lot of us....

 

Your suffering will be legendary, even in hell.

 

 

lol

 

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted

Let's pretend this was ebay and the seller was robo or bijou. Where do you stand? I don't think willful ignorance is far off from deception.

 

Id be curious about the stated grade and price. If he sauteed it was a 7 or 8 and priced at a 5 to hedge then maybe I could buy the risk argument. From what I gather he paid basically market for a blue.

 

Read the OP's post from June 10th, first.

 

So I recently walked into a small comic store, with a solid collection of silver and bronze age books. After buying a few (namely Silver Surfer 1-4, Hulk 102, and a few others), the owner asked if I wanted to see anything from his personal collection.

 

One of the items was a ASM #1 which is in VFN+, possibly NM- condition. However due to a few worries he had about restoration, he was selling it for the very low price of $9,500. He said that he has had it on the wall for ages, at that price, but no one has even asked to take a closer look at it.

 

Upon closer inspection, the cover is absolutely beautiful, no creases of any sort and the most minimal amount of chipping. The spine is in great condition and the staples are tight as can be. The cover shines great in the light, and there are no un-even spots.

 

The only concern is on the flip side of the cover, which when exposed to light shows two sections which are of a slightly darker color. This is not reflected on the front, where the same sections appear just fine. The collector suggested that this is why he keeps the price so low, as he's feared in the past that this could be the sign of restoration done, via the adding of rice paper or other adhesives to strengthen the back of the cover. He said that he'd never want to sell a book at Overstreet Price, and have someone come back with a CGC Restored Slab, which I can really respect.

 

The question is, do I go for the gamble? Are darker regions on the back side of the cover, definite signs of restoration? This book is definitely in the 8.0+ region, and if it comes back with a universal slab, I'm making out like a bandit.

 

Worst case scenario, if it comes back with a Restored CGC 8.0/8.5 or 9.0, how much can I realistically expect the book to be valued at. Will it even be close to the $9500, or does restoration cause the book to fall far below even this value?

 

There were obvious warning signs going in, and the buyer made a known gamble.

 

This is very different than a known criminal selling a restored book as unrestored.

 

Again, I'm not trying to rub it in. I feel for the guy and that feeling sucks when you've been taken but it seems he had some idea that there was risk involved.

 

 

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yecul

yecul

Posted
Posted

Let's pretend this was ebay and the seller was robo or bijou. Where do you stand? I don't think willful ignorance is far off from deception.

 

Id be curious about the stated grade and price. If he sauteed it was a 7 or 8 and priced at a 5 to hedge then maybe I could buy the risk argument. From what I gather he paid basically market for a blue.

 

Read the OP's post from June 10th, first.

 

So I recently walked into a small comic store, with a solid collection of silver and bronze age books. After buying a few (namely Silver Surfer 1-4, Hulk 102, and a few others), the owner asked if I wanted to see anything from his personal collection.

 

One of the items was a ASM #1 which is in VFN+, possibly NM- condition. However due to a few worries he had about restoration, he was selling it for the very low price of $9,500. He said that he has had it on the wall for ages, at that price, but no one has even asked to take a closer look at it.

 

Upon closer inspection, the cover is absolutely beautiful, no creases of any sort and the most minimal amount of chipping. The spine is in great condition and the staples are tight as can be. The cover shines great in the light, and there are no un-even spots.

 

The only concern is on the flip side of the cover, which when exposed to light shows two sections which are of a slightly darker color. This is not reflected on the front, where the same sections appear just fine. The collector suggested that this is why he keeps the price so low, as he's feared in the past that this could be the sign of restoration done, via the adding of rice paper or other adhesives to strengthen the back of the cover. He said that he'd never want to sell a book at Overstreet Price, and have someone come back with a CGC Restored Slab, which I can really respect.

 

The question is, do I go for the gamble? Are darker regions on the back side of the cover, definite signs of restoration? This book is definitely in the 8.0+ region, and if it comes back with a universal slab, I'm making out like a bandit.

 

Worst case scenario, if it comes back with a Restored CGC 8.0/8.5 or 9.0, how much can I realistically expect the book to be valued at. Will it even be close to the $9500, or does restoration cause the book to fall far below even this value?

 

There were obvious warning signs going in, and the buyer made a known gamble.

 

This is very different than a known criminal selling a restored book as unrestored.

 

Again, I'm not trying to rub it in. I feel for the guy and that feeling sucks when you've been taken but it seems he had some idea that there was risk involved.

 

 

In order for the risk reward scenario to be valid both sides have to be working on same info. I don't think that's the case. Bijou busting out that early action, upgrading and glossing over/"firgetting" declarations isn't a gamble for the buyer. Same deal as here. He knows hee jot selling a high grade comic with limited resto, bit a buyer could see it as a risk/reward. I do find it all credible that this dealer had uncertainty about resto on this case.

 

Only diff I see is blatant misrepresentation t vs willful ignorance (at best). Just my take

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seanfingh

seanfingh

Posted
Posted

Let's pretend this was ebay and the seller was robo or bijou. Where do you stand? I don't think willful ignorance is far off from deception.

 

Id be curious about the stated grade and price. If he sauteed it was a 7 or 8 and priced at a 5 to hedge then maybe I could buy the risk argument. From what I gather he paid basically market for a blue.

 

Read the OP's post from June 10th, first.

 

So I recently walked into a small comic store, with a solid collection of silver and bronze age books. After buying a few (namely Silver Surfer 1-4, Hulk 102, and a few others), the owner asked if I wanted to see anything from his personal collection.

 

One of the items was a ASM #1 which is in VFN+, possibly NM- condition. However due to a few worries he had about restoration, he was selling it for the very low price of $9,500. He said that he has had it on the wall for ages, at that price, but no one has even asked to take a closer look at it.

 

Upon closer inspection, the cover is absolutely beautiful, no creases of any sort and the most minimal amount of chipping. The spine is in great condition and the staples are tight as can be. The cover shines great in the light, and there are no un-even spots.

 

The only concern is on the flip side of the cover, which when exposed to light shows two sections which are of a slightly darker color. This is not reflected on the front, where the same sections appear just fine. The collector suggested that this is why he keeps the price so low, as he's feared in the past that this could be the sign of restoration done, via the adding of rice paper or other adhesives to strengthen the back of the cover. He said that he'd never want to sell a book at Overstreet Price, and have someone come back with a CGC Restored Slab, which I can really respect.

 

The question is, do I go for the gamble? Are darker regions on the back side of the cover, definite signs of restoration? This book is definitely in the 8.0+ region, and if it comes back with a universal slab, I'm making out like a bandit.

 

Worst case scenario, if it comes back with a Restored CGC 8.0/8.5 or 9.0, how much can I realistically expect the book to be valued at. Will it even be close to the $9500, or does restoration cause the book to fall far below even this value?

 

There were obvious warning signs going in, and the buyer made a known gamble.

 

This is very different than a known criminal selling a restored book as unrestored.

 

Again, I'm not trying to rub it in. I feel for the guy and that feeling sucks when you've been taken but it seems he had some idea that there was risk involved.

 

 

My opinion has changed greatly as a result of this previously unknown to me information. Gambling on the if/come is 100% different than the way it was presented in this thread. :(

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