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Fellow Boardies Help, Is my ASM 1 Restored?

Started by Joe Kim,

678 posts in this topic

VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
I'm giving him a chance to respond to me, but I'll definitely confront him about this.

 

Unfortunately, as much as I agree that the dealer might be a douchenozzle, you can't have it both ways.

 

You can't agree to purchase something as is and then ask to have your money back.

 

Risks have rewards and losses.

 

 

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Kevin.J

Kevin.J

Posted
Posted

 

The problem is, if he knew it was restored and sold it too you at full value then he saw you coming and pulled a serious fast one. You say he has been a stand up but if he has done this to you how many others has he done it to or will do it to in the future (shrug)

 

Is the guy a UK dealer?

 

Yup he's a UK dealer. I really don't want to out him unless its a last case scenario though, I'm just not that kind of person.

 

I bet I (and the other UK boardies) could have a good guess who this is doh!

 

I cant type as fast as others on here. lol

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Kevin.J

Kevin.J

Posted
Posted
I'm giving him a chance to respond to me, but I'll definitely confront him about this.

 

Unfortunately, as much as I agree that the dealer might be a douchenozzle, you can't have it both ways.

 

You can't agree to purchase something as is and then ask to have your money back.

 

Risks have rewards and losses.

 

 

I would agree if both parties thought there was a risk, the dealer knew this book was a wrong un.

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted
I don't want to alarm you but it may be a bit more than a couple of thousand.

 

If you paid $10,000 and it CGC's at an 8.0 Moderate Pro Trimmed (which is generous as it looks lower than an 8.0 and may not have been restored with professional materials), it might be a $3,000 or $4,000 book.

 

GPA similar sales are an 8.0 with moderate professional restoration sold in 2009 for $2959, a 7.0 with moderate amateur restoration sold in 2009 for $2326, and a 6.5 with extensive professional restoration sold in 2011 for $1900. Couldn't find any between 5.0 and 7.0 with only moderate resto in GPA's history.

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Joe Kim

Joe Kim

Posted
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Posted

If there is a problem with the book, then I am more than willing to look into this for you.

The last thing I want is for you to be unhappy or be holding a book that is not what it seems.

Please can you give me some specific information, as if you are getting this sort of response from a scan, someone must know what they are seeing, and I would also like to know what that is, because its not something I could see.

Please be assured that I will not see you holding a book that is worth a significantly lower value than we thought.

I will await your feedback with specific information

 

kind regards

 

Just e-mailed me back.

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sufunk

sufunk

Posted
Posted
There is no possible way a 30 year dealer didnt see that resto unless he is brain dead. NO POSSIBLEWAY! Especially when you throw in the no refunds, as is part of his sales pitch.

 

I personally haven't ever met a small shop owner or a dealer at smaller conventions who can detect restoration including the type we think we're seeing in that scan, even ones who have been doing it for decades. If they don't deal in high-end books, they're usually not thinking about restoration and have little or no skill at detecting it.

 

Where do you live, Symbiotic--in the UK near this dealer, or are you in the US? Do you have reason to believe this guy deals in high-end books with any type of regularity?

 

true but imo, that resto is pretty laughable. Like i said, im like 5% at the level of resto detection that some of you Jedi masters are(thats not sarcasm, i WISH i had a tenth of the skills as some around here) and i could see that instantly. Thats barely better than the infamous Avengers 1 that i think it was twisty got screwed on.

 

I cant imagine a 30 year dealer didnt see that especially with the as is, no returns sales pitch. Definitely seems to me he reeled him in with the nice ASM129 and Hulk181 and then hit him with the big time scam. Those added pieces are NOT hard to see :facepalm:

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chrisco37

chrisco37

Posted
Posted
If there is a problem with the book, then I am more than willing to look into this for you.

The last thing I want is for you to be unhappy or be holding a book that is not what it seems.

Please can you give me some specific information, as if you are getting this sort of response from a scan, someone must know what they are seeing, and I would also like to know what that is, because its not something I could see.

Please be assured that I will not see you holding a book that is worth a significantly lower value than we thought.

I will await your feedback with specific information

 

kind regards

 

Just e-mailed me back.

 

Well that's alot more promising than "a deal is a deal". :wishluck:

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted
If there is a problem with the book, then I am more than willing to look into this for you.

The last thing I want is for you to be unhappy or be holding a book that is not what it seems.

Please can you give me some specific information, as if you are getting this sort of response from a scan, someone must know what they are seeing, and I would also like to know what that is, because its not something I could see.

Please be assured that I will not see you holding a book that is worth a significantly lower value than we thought.

I will await your feedback with specific information

 

kind regards

 

Just e-mailed me back.

 

Sounds fantastic! :applause:

 

If I were you, I'd point him to this thread. I'd also send the book off to CGC so he knows what he has, and I'd pay for it myself out of guilt for agreeing to take the risk on it combined with gratitude that the seller was willing to back out of a deal that was going sour. I did exactly this with a Spidey #9 that I bought as an unrestored 9.0 from a boardie and found the book had color touch when it arrived--I sent it to CGC, they verified that it did and gave it a 9.2 with slight amateur CT, we split the submission costs, and he gave me a refund.

 

The issue then would be what if the book actually came back as an unrestored 7.0 or so--what would I do in THAT case? hm

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TheWatcher

TheWatcher

Posted
Posted
If there is a problem with the book, then I am more than willing to look into this for you.

The last thing I want is for you to be unhappy or be holding a book that is not what it seems.

Please can you give me some specific information, as if you are getting this sort of response from a scan, someone must know what they are seeing, and I would also like to know what that is, because its not something I could see.

Please be assured that I will not see you holding a book that is worth a significantly lower value than we thought.

I will await your feedback with specific information

 

kind regards

 

Just e-mailed me back.

 

:applause:

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gaz2810i

gaz2810i

Posted
Posted
If there is a problem with the book, then I am more than willing to look into this for you.

The last thing I want is for you to be unhappy or be holding a book that is not what it seems.

Please can you give me some specific information, as if you are getting this sort of response from a scan, someone must know what they are seeing, and I would also like to know what that is, because its not something I could see.

Please be assured that I will not see you holding a book that is worth a significantly lower value than we thought.

I will await your feedback with specific information

 

kind regards

 

Just e-mailed me back.

 

:applause:

 

:applause::applause:

 

 

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted
true but imo, that resto is pretty laughable. Like i said, im like 5% at the level of resto detection that some of you Jedi masters are(thats not sarcasm, i WISH i had a tenth of the skills as some around here) and i could see that instantly. Thats barely better than the infamous Avengers 1 that i think it was twisty got screwed on.

 

My general position is I never trust scans for subtle details, and restoration is typically subtle and can look different under angled, raking light. I don't even like to grade scans, which is why I was so glad they split the "hey buddy can you spare a grade" forum off from the main resto forum--I detest grading scans but love talking about grading and resto.

 

I certainly lean towards this book having piece replacement, but I'm not sure of it.

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
I'm giving him a chance to respond to me, but I'll definitely confront him about this.

 

Unfortunately, as much as I agree that the dealer might be a douchenozzle, you can't have it both ways.

 

You can't agree to purchase something as is and then ask to have your money back.

 

Risks have rewards and losses.

 

 

I would agree if both parties thought there was a risk, the dealer knew this book was a wrong un.

 

While I agree with you that the dealer possibly knew, the onus is on the buyer to do his or her homework.

 

Any reputable dealer would take the book back but ultimately, it's buyer beware. That is the unfortunate reality of it.

 

It's like buying a lottery ticket and then asking for a refund if it doesn't pay out. That's not the way it works.

 

I've been burned huge and it sucks. I recently bought an ASM #1 and AF #15. The ASM #1 turned out having disclosed resto. I took a shot on the AF #15 and lost. It happens.

 

Sometimes you have to take the good with the bad. That's how we all learn.

 

In this case it looks like it may work out for the buyer but usually it doesn't.

 

Congrats on at least getting a reply from the dealer.

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sufunk

sufunk

Posted
Posted
true but imo, that resto is pretty laughable. Like i said, im like 5% at the level of resto detection that some of you Jedi masters are(thats not sarcasm, i WISH i had a tenth of the skills as some around here) and i could see that instantly. Thats barely better than the infamous Avengers 1 that i think it was twisty got screwed on.

 

My general position is I never trust scans for subtle details, and restoration is typically subtle and can look different under angled, raking light. I don't even like to grade scans, which is why I was so glad they split the "hey buddy can you spare a grade" forum off from the main resto forum--I detest grading scans but love talking about grading and resto.

 

I certainly lean towards this book having piece replacement, but I'm not sure of it.

 

I'd usually agree with you but that looks pretty definite from those scans (shrug)

 

Anyways, sounds like he will hopefully work with you. That's the difference between an ACTUAL stand up guy and someone you think is standup. I don't care if they said "as is". A dealer that will sell you a 10k book that tens out to be 2k PLOD is t a stand up guy IMO. Hopefully he is a stand up guy though from that response and will either return it, refund you a significant amount or somehow make it up.

 

Good luck man! I REALLY hope this works out for you! Nothing worse than getting burned for a BIG purchase. It can definitely make you want nothing to do with comics anymore so hopefully that won't happen here! :wishluck:

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Dr. Balls

Dr. Balls

Posted
Posted
true but imo, that resto is pretty laughable. Like i said, im like 5% at the level of resto detection that some of you Jedi masters are(thats not sarcasm, i WISH i had a tenth of the skills as some around here) and i could see that instantly. Thats barely better than the infamous Avengers 1 that i think it was twisty got screwed on.

 

My general position is I never trust scans for subtle details, and restoration is typically subtle and can look different under angled, raking light. I don't even like to grade scans, which is why I was so glad they split the "hey buddy can you spare a grade" forum off from the main resto forum--I detest grading scans but love talking about grading and resto.

 

I certainly lean towards this book having piece replacement, but I'm not sure of it.

 

I'd usually agree with you but that looks pretty definite from those scans (shrug)

 

Oh yeah, once someone pointed out to me (and I have little to no experience in resto) you can very clearly see the halftone dots are gone from those areas. That's not light or angles - the ink is just not there. Which, I guess I'm a little surprised about - wouldn't a resto guy want to replicate the dot patterns of the chunks he's replacing?

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Joe Kim

Joe Kim

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Going to send it off to CGC, and go from there. The dealer is a great guy, and any attempts to slag him off are misplaced. If anything its simply a matter of not knowing restoration as well as some of the profesional spotters.

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
true but imo, that resto is pretty laughable. Like i said, im like 5% at the level of resto detection that some of you Jedi masters are(thats not sarcasm, i WISH i had a tenth of the skills as some around here) and i could see that instantly. Thats barely better than the infamous Avengers 1 that i think it was twisty got screwed on.

 

My general position is I never trust scans for subtle details, and restoration is typically subtle and can look different under angled, raking light. I don't even like to grade scans, which is why I was so glad they split the "hey buddy can you spare a grade" forum off from the main resto forum--I detest grading scans but love talking about grading and resto.

 

I certainly lean towards this book having piece replacement, but I'm not sure of it.

 

I'd usually agree with you but that looks pretty definite from those scans (shrug)

 

Oh yeah, once someone pointed out to me (and I have little to no experience in resto) you can very clearly see the halftone dots are gone from those areas. That's not light or angles - the ink is just not there. Which, I guess I'm a little surprised about - wouldn't a resto guy want to replicate the dot patterns of the chunks he's replacing?

 

That's like asking "wouldn't someone want a space ship in 1890?" lol

 

It just wasn't done that way back in the day.

 

Restoration today is much more advance to the point where yes, some people can even replicate dot patterns.

 

Resto detection is just a matter of experience. Looking at a few samples of what to look for is a very easy way of learning it and you quickly come to "spot it" as it jumps out at you.

 

 

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seanfingh

seanfingh

Posted
Posted
Going to send it off to CGC, and go from there. The dealer is a great guy, and any attempts to slag him off are misplaced. If anything its simply a matter of not knowing restoration as well as some of the profesional spotters.

 

That dealer is not a great guy. He is nice to you because he is giving you the pork sword. That resto is as easy to spot as any I have ever seen on a scan on here. It is blatant. Absolutely blatant. I am sorry for your troubles, but you got hosed.

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