The BIGGEST problems in the hobby right now

[chrisco37]

Sometimes, you don't know exactly what the tape is doing on a book without either

 

a) removing the tape and looking underneath it.

b) examining the book before it's taped.

 

So let's say (for hypothetics) that someone has a piece fallen off of a corner and the book grades a 4.0 with the missing corner. Now there is a piece of tape added and the corner is perfectly re-attached...only you can't tell whether the tape is just there incidentally and the corner was never detached (since it looks like a crease) or if it was actually reattached.

 

I was in this same situation many years ago when I had an FF #1 that I bought for resale - I could not for the life of me tell whether the tape was incidental because the corner was about to fall off but had not fallen off yet or whether someone had reattached it.

 

What is the correct procedure to make everyone happy?

 

Do you grade the book a 4.0, which is what it is without the corner even though it's still present?

 

Do you grade it a 5.0 which is an accurate grade because the corner is not detached and a small piece of tape is allowed in that grade?

 

Everyone wants the rules changed but it's not as simple as it seems, in my opinion.

This example is moot. The fact that the tape is there is worse than whether or not the piece is attached, loose or missing.

 

How is the example moot? It explains how I understand we got to the grading standards we have today.

 

As far as I know, tape wasn't considered an automatic 2.0 defect.

 

How would you grade a book with tape?

 

As defects go, the presence of tape on a corner is worse than having that corner completely missing, nevermind torn and attached or torn and present. So the example is moot. The tape itself makes any defect underneath it pale in comparison. Just because The CGC choose to go a different direction with their criteria does not change that fact.

 

You are one of my favs, Richard.

[shrunkenhead]

 

I think whoever made the post about CGC reclassifying removable archival tape to blue label had a great idea. That way it would in fact protect the books from the long term damage of scotch tape, and get CGC a bunch of new submissions (people would theoretically resub books with archival tape)

 

Thank you, sir. And with new subs comes more revenue. Cgc gets to revise their policy to something more correct and generate more money. Perfect!

 

I am available for hire as a PR guy.

 

What happens with the (1000 or so) books with bad tape already in blue labels?

 

With what I'm suggesting, books subbed with bad tape would remain in blue labels, but those grades should be lower than those books that use archival tape (and also get blue labels)..

 

If CGC is going to bump up badly taped books, fine. But books with archival tape should receive a better bump and stay blue. Discourage the practice by better rewarding those who tape properly.

Nah. If they've made a mistake by not considering tape resto, it doesn't get corrected by deciding that other tape is now no longer resto either.

 

It's not gonna be possible to both fix this problem and stay consistent. And I say it's better to recognize a problem and fix it, thereby creating some inconsistency, than to recognize a problem and not fix it, to preserve consistency. Why stay consistently wrong when you can change to be right from now on?

 

Also, don't forget that tape is actually destructive. So, by not punishing tape, and actually giving a grade bump, they're tacitly promoting a practice that's harmful to the longevity of the hobby. And I know that's not what they're about.

 

Ruling that tape is repair (not resto) would be consistent. The inconsistency derives from ruling that archival tape is resto and bad tape is repair. That's why books are being damaged by short-sighted and small-minded "collectors."

[shrunkenhead]

CGC could also note "amateur tape repair" on all future subs as a detterent. Yes, there are going to be those older books that don't have the notation. So people would have to pony up for grader's notes to find out what's what. Again, CGC wins the game and makes more money.

 

Or CGC could make a gesture of good will and let people call about taping information for free.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

No special treatment for "archival" tape

First problem there is no standard for "archival"

People will claim "my tape was archival and I got hosed".

 

I have seen some tape that claimed to be archival (I think it was simply acid free) and I would almost guarantee that there would be no way to remove the tape without major damage to the paper underneath.

 

[Dark Knight]

So the question is, will CGC change their position on "amateur" tape being a restoration practice?

[comicwiz]

No. JC was accusing everyone of data-mining and.. wait, wrong thread

[VintageComics]

WTF are you talking about? I'm talking about the issue of tape and how CGC treats it and you throw that at me. Since we are on the topic I was never against pressing so what is your point? I don't go out of my way to deceive people or manipulate the system on a regular basis so my "greed" comment was meant for those who get up every morning with that in mind[the shillers, the guys who tape books just so they could get higher grades for resale, etc]. If I disagree with a CGC grade should I just give it up to those who are worthy to handle it going forward, maybe even cover expensive shipping requests because I'm being greedy?!? I left more money on the table than I can remember over the years because I would prefer to make sure that a boardie is happy with the transaction at the end of the day, not because I want to squeeze every dollar I can out of a transaction. Maybe I should be more of an a-hole or just choose to narrow down the a-hole's I do business with going forward.

 

Remind me which book you are referring to and how it even has any merit to this discussion.

 

Peter, I think you took my post as a personal attack (which it wasn't) and again missed my point.

 

I was replying to this:

 

I think the biggest problem in this hobby is the greed, not tape, not pressing, trimming, etc.

 

I wasn't very succinct but I asked a question below (in bold) which was the entire point of my post...

 

Peter, I'm replying in a way that I understand with the facts that I know. I can't answer this in detail because I'm on a handheld but let me ask you, how do you differentiate between greedy people and those that aren't because when I inquired about a book a few months ago and asked if it was for sale you told me that you were going to have it pressed and graded first.

 

I think tour you're entirely missing the point of my post.

 

...so my point was not that you pressed a book or wanted to press a book...just what you thought "greedy people" in this hobby meant and I was trying to show you that what one group considers greedy another may not.

 

Sorry if I wasn't very clear.

[seanfingh]

[VintageComics]

Roy how can you make that statement in the first paragraph only to follow with the one I highlighted in the second? Excuse the term as I haven't used this in years but your acting like a CGC apologist and your playing the angles every which way but Sunday. The whole excuse that "oh well in hindsight" is really bothering me because it suggests that CGC was completely ignorant of the issue(s). How can you keep saying that with a straight face when this issue has been talked about for years and on these very boards? Also, it has nothing to do with Anti-CGC sentiment, just another scapegoat notion. Finally if your suggesting that its too late to make changes, well then that is just more BS.

 

I think the biggest problem in this hobby is the greed, not tape, not pressing, trimming, etc.

 

I'm going to address this:

 

I'm not a CGC apologist, I just offer whatever insight and opinions I have based on my understanding of the CGC grading system.

 

You took my two quotes (paragraphs) out of context and created a contradiction

 

Whether it bothers you or not, it's truthfully easier to start something than it is to change it half way - whether CGC was ignorant of the issue when the standards were made or not I don't know and neither do you

 

I have been involved in many of those discussions.

 

If you think change is possible then do something to institute it rather than take your frustration out on me.

 

[VintageComics]

My old grandpappy used to say, "Sean, do you know what is going to happen if you back a rat into corner and shine a light in its eyes? It's going to bite you."

 

 

Let me address these points:

 

FU fire turd.

 

 

[TupennyConan]

FU fire turd.

[comicwiz]

I'm starting to like tape more than pressing

[VintageComics]

Sometimes, you don't know exactly what the tape is doing on a book without either

 

a) removing the tape and looking underneath it.

b) examining the book before it's taped.

 

So let's say (for hypothetics) that someone has a piece fallen off of a corner and the book grades a 4.0 with the missing corner. Now there is a piece of tape added and the corner is perfectly re-attached...only you can't tell whether the tape is just there incidentally and the corner was never detached (since it looks like a crease) or if it was actually reattached.

 

I was in this same situation many years ago when I had an FF #1 that I bought for resale - I could not for the life of me tell whether the tape was incidental because the corner was about to fall off but had not fallen off yet or whether someone had reattached it.

 

What is the correct procedure to make everyone happy?

 

Do you grade the book a 4.0, which is what it is without the corner even though it's still present?

 

Do you grade it a 5.0 which is an accurate grade because the corner is not detached and a small piece of tape is allowed in that grade?

 

Everyone wants the rules changed but it's not as simple as it seems, in my opinion.

This example is moot. The fact that the tape is there is worse than whether or not the piece is attached, loose or missing.

 

How is the example moot? It explains how I understand we got to the grading standards we have today.

 

As far as I know, tape wasn't considered an automatic 2.0 defect.

 

How would you grade a book with tape?

 

As defects go, the presence of tape on a corner is worse than having that corner completely missing, nevermind torn and attached or torn and present. So the example is moot. The tape itself makes any defect underneath it pale in comparison. Just because The CGC choose to go a different direction with their criteria does not change that fact.

 

You still didn't answer my question though, namely how would you grade a book with tape?

 

If tape is worse than the missing piece do you just grade the book as though the piece is missing / loose?

 

I'm not saying there is a right or a wrong way to grade but I'd like to hear what grading standards you're proposing.

[rodan57]

You still didn't answer my question though, namely how would you grade a book with tape?

 

Grade as if it has the tape pull that would occur if removed?

[VintageComics]

You still didn't answer my question though, namely how would you grade a book with tape?

 

Grade as if it has the tape pull that would occur if removed?

 

In many cases, the book would be low grade enough that even a tape pull wouldn't lower the grade.

 

Plus...

 

What if the piece that is being held on falls off when the tape is removed?

[Junkdrawer]

Okay, so there are 28 pages of tape situations and how CGC encourages tape with a grade bump, ultimatly destoying a comic book at the same time. CGC also sways submitters to keep rusty staples in books to keep the label blue, when ultimately the best thing for the long term would be to remove the rusted staples, but nobody wants a glod.

CGC obviously is a business that is making money (can I say monopoly?) Yes there are non collectors out there that have found the loop holes to increase values to the tune of 1000s of dollars for a scrape, a press, call it manipulation of the natural state of the book. If actual collectors disagree with CGC by 1%, 20% or 100% then they need to just collect comic books and go back to the way things were. Call it like you see it. As for notes, well they dont tell it all and furthermore create hope and doubt and pure profit.

[seanfingh]

FU fire turd.

 

Is this the part where I insult you? And then when you say WTF I wait 5 hours and then throw up a response saying you didn't understand what I was saying or took it out of context. Do I have that right?

[skypinkblu]

 

I think whoever made the post about CGC reclassifying removable archival tape to blue label had a great idea. That way it would in fact protect the books from the long term damage of scotch tape, and get CGC a bunch of new submissions (people would theoretically resub books with archival tape)

 

Thank you, sir. And with new subs comes more revenue. Cgc gets to revise their policy to something more correct and generate more money. Perfect!

 

I am available for hire as a PR guy.

 

What happens with the (1000 or so) books with bad tape already in blue labels?

 

 

If CGC changes their policy, it's going to lower the value of the books with tape, or at the least, take more people out of the market for them.

 

If I were someone who bought slabbed books with tape thinking that the rules were going to stay the same, I'd be pretty upset if there was a midstream change.

 

It's not going to effect me personally, since I only own one slabbed book with tape (that I remember (and I didn't put the brown masking tape on the book;)), but as someone who collects lower grade books, I've seen an awful lot that have tape notations, so I have a feeling it's many more than 1,000.

 

I've always thought purple labels were a brilliant move to make more money for CGC and whoever thought of PLOD should be in advertising...it makes the screening so much more important...

 

If the company is really upset about tape now...the only fair option would be to switch to all one color label, with notes...and if there are changes, it should be a new color.

 

I vote for hot pink, since all the other good colors are taken..

[arexcrooke]

Couple of things from the cheap seats:

Having a one color label is just asking people to get over. Plain and simple. There're people who would take a new or non experienced CGC collector and with a one colored label could schmooze and sweet talk that person and sell them a pig in a poke. Basically they would sodomize them and then toss them in a dumpster.

It isn't the purple label that reduces the value of a book it's the restoration on it that does. Why some people here think that a one color label does that makes no sense to me. Although I could see why some sellers would like that.

 

[worldofcomics-migration]

What if the piece that is being held on falls off when the tape is removed?

 

Call it a bindery chip??