The BIGGEST problems in the hobby right now

[VintageComics]

Doesn't that seem a bit punitive?

 

It does to me, but I guess everyone sees things differently.

 

 

[seanfingh]

Here's a question. I'm not being rhetorical either as I have a book with this condition.

 

If a book with tape is grading higher than one without tape and getting a blue label, why is my Phantom Lady book with a "tear seal" in a PLOD?

 

 

Yeah, I saw that comment - that's a good question, and one that points to the conservation vs. restoration questions.

Maybe they should have another color label for conservation

 

Kenny is saying that whether little Homer does it or big Kenny does it, it's still a repair and should default into a purple label.

 

By treating it that way, nobody would be taping books as a mature adult.

 

 

But the old taped-books would be purple.

Doesn't that seem a bit punitive?

 

It's no more punitive than what happened to people like Nick Beckett, holding scads of unpressed gems in 9.0-9.6 condition, when the pressing floodgates opened. Everyone holding inventory in what used to be UHG got rogered. It's hard to feel sorry for the taped book owners after watching that play out.

[fantastic_four]

Kenny is saying that whether little Homer does it or big Kenny does it, it's still a repair and should default into a purple label.

 

By treating it that way, nobody would be taping books as a mature adult.

 

 

But the old taped-books would be purple.

Doesn't that seem a bit punitive?

 

How is it less punitive to define skilled professional restoration as PLOD and unskilled amateur restoration as blue? They're both restoration--distinguishing between them in a way that makes the less-skilled one effectively worth more money is goofy and -backwards. The intent is essentially the same whether it's a kid applying tape or a restorer tearing a seal with rice paper, and distinguishing between them is not only overly-judgmental, it has created this loophole sellers are using to improve the condition of torn books with tape in a damaging way without incurring a PLOD.

 

It's a good thing to distinguish conservation and restoration like you're doing, but conservation is a specific type of restoration--it's restoration done to save a book from being damaged further due to invasive defects. CGC could distinguish conservation on the label, but either way it's work done to restore a book back to a condition it was previously in, so they've chosen not to. Not a big deal given how similar they are.

[comicwiz]

As a sideline observation, books that can't be graded either due to size or distribution format have been treated like outcasts since the push for dressing comics to the 9's through reconditioning.

 

While this might appear to be a problem in the face of unappreciated collecting, I look at it as an opportunity to buy under the radar, with the upside that when pressing gets its inquisition (and it will), these are books that people will immediately identify as being untouched for reconditioning purposes.

 

When the hobby hands you lemons, make lemonade.

[MCMiles]

Just go with blue for good tape and we're done with this. I say go for the simplest, most direct fix.

 

Even though everyone agrees that tape is bad nobody can universally agree on how to deal with the tape issue.

 

These are the different opinions -

 

Keep it in a blue label but down grade tape heavily?

Keep it in a blue label but upgrade archival tape greatly to encourage it's use over tape?

Put tape in a purple label?

 

Have I missed anything?

 

 

Note the tape on the blue label and do not give the book a grade increase. Grade it as if the tape were not applied.

 

Blue label is fine with me because there is the grey area of "was this applied by a kid before it was a sin or applied to get a better grade. Yes the answer will be obvious 99% of the time but there will still be room for someone to have a mess fit if they get a purple label because of tape.

 

Noting it on the label is enough for me, but the book should be graded based on defects.

 

A split or a tear is a defect..... 4.0 ( grades are just as example)

Tape with no tear or split is a defect..... 4.0

Tape on a tear is two defects......3.0

 

It's been said that a defect under the tape can not always be detected. I believe in most cases it can, especially by a restoration expert. Even in the event that it can not then perhaps it should be left to the judgement of CGC and the graders to determine the final grade. I realize that is not black and white, but when it comes to the numerical it is always their opinion.

 

If it has tape on both sides of the paper or is not clear tape (masking tape etc.) then it should be down graded for the excessive and ugly tape.

[Junkdrawer]

Recap of how CGC wants to kill comic books;

Tape them up for a blue label and grade bump.

Keep those rusty staples in place

Cgc encourages people to have creators write on books without penalty, but a child who wrote their name gets down graded. Writing is writing

[shrunkenhead]

Recap of how CGC wants to kill comic books;

Tape them up for a blue label and grade bump.

Keep those rusty staples in place

Cgc encourages people to have creators write on books without penalty, but a child who wrote their name gets down graded. Writing is writing

 

I don't think writing is necessarily writing. That's a little too much like saying "paper is paper," and that's not the case either. Otherwise my Nova 1 should be fetching Supes 1 prices, or vice versa.

 

 

[fantastic_four]

Cgc encourages people to have creators write on books without penalty, but a child who wrote their name gets down graded. Writing is writing

 

Not really an issue given that those books are categorized entirely differently with yet another label color. The deduction for original owner writing is also so minor unless it's horribly distracting that it's barely worth quibbling about. It might turn a 9.8 into a 9.6 if the owner's writing is fairly prominent, but I've not seen evidence that they deduct much more than that. Certainly there are plenty of Church and San Francisco books that are 9.8 and 9.9 with writing.

[MrBedrock]

Bedrock has stated that a taped on corner is worse than the corner missing entirely but still hasn't answered how he would grade the book.

 

I already said how I would grade a book with tape. You just must have missed it. It was in the post with the "paper negative zone" comment.

But I'll gladly repeat it for you (thumbs u

I grade a book with tape as if the paper under the tape is missing.

 

 

[MrBedrock]

Here's a question. I'm not being rhetorical either as I have a book with this condition.

 

If a book with tape is grading higher than one without tape and getting a blue label, why is my Phantom Lady book with a "tear seal" in a PLOD?

 

 

Yeah, I saw that comment - that's a good question, and one that points to the conservation vs. restoration questions.

Maybe they should have another color label for conservation

 

Kenny is saying that whether little Homer does it or big Kenny does it, it's still a repair and should default into a purple label.

 

By treating it that way, nobody would be taping books as a mature adult.

 

 

But the old taped-books would be purple.

Doesn't that seem a bit punitive?

 

It's no more punitive than what happened to people like Nick Beckett, holding scads of unpressed gems in 9.0-9.6 condition, when the pressing floodgates opened. Everyone holding inventory in what used to be UHG got rogered. It's hard to feel sorry for the taped book owners after watching that play out.

[Ze-man]

I'd like to see conservation allowed, REAL conservation...on lower grade books...if a spine is split, I'd love to be able to use some archival method (glue, etc) so it doesn't split more.

 

I understand that on high grade books, these things are mostly manipulative, but there are others of us, who collect old cruddy BOOKS, that could use some help...

 

Kind of like the difference between a face lift and surgery to correct a dangerous mole or something.[/color]

 

Great idea Sha (thumbs u Seriously, what the heck is horrible about reinforcing a split spine on a low to lower middle-grade? It stabilizes the book and makes it more collectable. So why paint a big red letter on the slab that says stay away? I have a GA book that is like falling apart, but if it got some minor rice-paper reinforcement it would be a whole easier to handle and even read. I like this idea.

 

Maybe the idea flouted earlier by I think shrunkenhead or Speedy-D, use Purple labels ONLY for restored books, not old amateur repairs and touch-ups. These could be relegated to the notes on the slab, and I think everyone would be happier.

 

Bob, you know I am not going to disagree with you or Sharon about conserving books that need it. But at this point, it is not about labeling them differently, it is more about having people understand what it says on the purple label.

 

A conserved book should not be viewed as being "punished" because it is sitting in a purple label, but rather accepted, even sought after for the minimal work that was done to increase the stability of the book.

 

A Blue label for minimally conserved books would only serve to increase peoples dislike for other restored books sitting in purple labels. Not to mention lead to confusion as to why one book was considered "conserved", and another "restored" depending on the amount of similar work done.

 

I could remove 10 pieces of tape, wash and leaf cast a tattered GA cover. I would consider this 100% conservation work. But in reality it is a solvent washed, water washed, piece filled through leaf casting comic book. i.e...restored.

 

I have long wanted to try and make some sort of separation between conservation work, and full blown restoration work. But more and more I realize that is just self serving because every form of conso falls under the restoration umbrella.

 

It is more about trying to make the word restoration more acceptable depending on what was done to the book, tempered with ones personal preferences.

 

As time goes by, (and I think this has already started to happen to some extent) collectors in our hobby will start to see restored books are not all the same. And understand a book with a sealed spine split, reinforced staples, a long tear sealed or other structural minded conservation work done should not be considered as undesirable. Because it is basically a 100% original book with a few structural flaws mended that allow a collector to safely pick up and read it like a comic book again.

 

Which leads us back to taping up comic books vs using archival materials you can remove with a damp q tip.

 

As a hobby we cannot seem to get past this first hurdle.

 

 

I will blame Plitch, it is all his fault.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ze-man]

Kenny is saying that whether little Homer does it or big Kenny does it, it's still a repair and should default into a purple label.

 

By treating it that way, nobody would be taping books as a mature adult.

 

 

But the old taped-books would be purple.

Doesn't that seem a bit punitive?

 

How is it less punitive to define skilled professional restoration as PLOD and unskilled amateur restoration as blue? They're both restoration--distinguishing between them in a way that makes the less-skilled one effectively worth more money is goofy and -backwards. The intent is essentially the same whether it's a kid applying tape or a restorer tearing a seal with rice paper, and distinguishing between them is not only overly-judgmental, it has created this loophole sellers are using to improve the condition of torn books with tape in a damaging way without incurring a PLOD.

 

It's a good thing to distinguish conservation and restoration like you're doing, but conservation is a specific type of restoration--it's restoration done to save a book from being damaged further due to invasive defects. CGC could distinguish conservation on the label, but either way it's work done to restore a book back to a condition it was previously in, so they've chosen not to. Not a big deal given how similar they are.

 

I should have just read this first, it would have saved everyone from my long post.

 

Only thing I should clarify is that taped books are all equal in my mind. Be it applied by a kid, or a dealer last week. It is a amateurish form of restoration.

 

Same as trimmed books..CGC labels them as restored for lack of a better label. To make sure people see it was trimmed.

 

But I do not think anyone considers a trimmed, or taped book to be restored. Both are damaging.

 

So no, it is not punitive to label taped books equally...the tape is there regardless of intent.

 

As I said earlier, label them as Restored Amateur and let the market decide what value they place on them. Not to punish comics taped by kids 40 years ago, but to dissuade people from taping books currently because of the loophole.

 

And I realize they cannot make such a drastic change now, I am just giving my 2 cent, hindsight opinion.

 

 

 

 

[fantastic_four]

Same as trimmed books..CGC labels them as restored for lack of a better label. To make sure people see it was trimmed.

 

Sort of. If a book is trimmed with no other work, they get the purple label, but they don't get the "CGC Restored Grade" designation up top, do they? If memory serves--and it may not, I need to see another example of a book that has just been trimmed with no other work, it's been years since I saw one--then they get the "CGC Universal Grade" with an "Apparent" designation before the grade. I recall that they denote trimming with a subtle mix of the blue and PLOD designation that indicates they do see it as damage as opposed to restoration, but I could be off in what exactly is written on the label.

 

I rather like the way they designate trimming only. It's purple, indicating that like restored books it's something to be wary of when determining price, yet at the same time it distinguishes trimming from other restorative techniques.

[Ze-man]

Same as trimmed books..CGC labels them as restored for lack of a better label. To make sure people see it was trimmed.

 

Sort of. If a book is trimmed with no other work, they get the purple label, but they don't get the "CGC Restored Grade" designation up top, do they? If memory serves--and it may not, I need to see another example of a book that has just been trimmed with no other work, it's been years since I saw one--then they get the "CGC Universal Grade" with an "Apparent" designation before the grade. I recall that they denote trimming with a subtle mix of the blue and PLOD designation that indicates they do see it as damage as opposed to restoration, but I could be off in what exactly is written on the label.

 

I rather like the way they designate trimming only. It's purple, indicating that like restored books it's something to be wary of when determining price, yet at the same time it distinguishes trimming from other restorative techniques.

 

As far as I know, CGC puts most all trimmed books in a plod with no apparent grade for the reasons you stated. It is just a way to make sure people see a cover was trimmed.

 

I of course will be proven wrong with multiple examples blowing up what I thought I knew.... in..3...2..1..

 

Same with taped books, I would like to see them labeled as amature resto to dissuade people from taping books. But like trimmed books, I would not assign an apparent grade.

 

Aww heck, no wonder CGC has left it alone all these years. There is no easy answer.

 

 

[Erndog]

The biggest problem in the hobby is peanuts.

 

Everytime I buy something from ebay, I open up the package and need to get out the vaccuum.

[MCMiles]

The biggest problem in the hobby is the cost of peanuts.

 

 

 

I recycle them and bubble wrap as much as possible, but it's inevitable that I have to buy it. I hate that.

[Transplant]

This thread should be relabeled, "The biggest problem I, [state your name], have with the hobby right now."

[Transplant]

True that. Since my last CGC shipment came without any peanuts, I'm down to 1 trash bag full.

[Timmay]

This thread should be relabeled, "The biggest problem I, [state your name], have with the hobby right now."

 

[DR.X]

The biggest problem in the hobby is the cost of peanuts.

 

 

 

I recycle them and bubble wrap as much as possible, but it's inevitable that I have to buy it. I hate that.

 

You need to learn how to dumpster dive. Next time you're in Chicago I'll give you a tour of the south side alley's with dumpster potential. A goldmine at times.