The BIGGEST problems in the hobby right now

[VintageComics]

Just go with blue for good tape and we're done with this. I say go for the simplest, most direct fix.

 

Even though everyone agrees that tape is bad nobody can universally agree on how to deal with the tape issue.

 

These are the different opinions -

 

Keep it in a blue label but down grade tape heavily?

Keep it in a blue label but upgrade archival tape greatly to encourage it's use over tape?

Put tape in a purple label?

 

Have I missed anything?

 

 

Note the tape on the blue label and do not give the book a grade increase. Grade it as if the tape were not applied.

 

This IS the answer, as is Bedrock's answer.

 

We keep going around in circles.

 

Bedrock has stated that a taped on corner is worse than the corner missing entirely but still hasn't answered how he would grade the book.

 

How do you know what the grade was before the tape was applied? You can't always tell what is under the tape - so let's say for discussion's sake that 50% of the time you can and 50% of the time you can't - do you guess for the 50% of the times that you can't tell if the tape is holding something on or not?

 

But the label chasers are what they are. (thumbs u

 

This is known as a jab.

 

[Spiderphill]

Label chasers keep the high grade market afloat

[ComicConnoisseur]

Label chasers keep the high grade market afloat

Are we talking 9.8,9.9 or non- Church pedigree comics?

 

[Spiderphill]

Anything 9.0 and over for silver age.

[Timely]

CGC also sways submitters to keep rusty staples in books to keep the label blue, when ultimately the best thing for the long term would be to remove the rusted staples, but nobody wants a glod.

 

This is a valid point. Rusted staples are not allowed to be replaced without being "penalized", even though replacing the staples is the best thing for the comic book in the long run.

 

Taking this a few steps further, what do you think will eventually happen to all the unrestored comics? Sooner or later they will become brittle & fall apart. It's only a matter of time. However, the comics that were "restored" early on by being de-acidified will outlast the unrestored comics. Yet at this moment in time, de-acidified comics are deemed restored and are "penalized", even though in the long run it is the best thing for them.

 

Sooner or later, these restored comics will be worth more than the unrestored comics. Why? The restored de-acidified comics will still have Off-White pages with 100's of years of life remaining in them. The unrestored comics will be slightly brittle, brittle, or dust. It will happen, it's only a matter of time.

 

At this time, who is willing to take their perfectly good unrestored comics and have them de-acidified? No one! No one want to spend money doing this only to loose money as it's value would plummet in the short run. Yet, de-acidifying the books is what's best for them.

 

So, to recap. Tape (which is bad) is rewarded sometimes. Replacing rusted staples (which is good) is penalized all the time. De-acidifying (which is good) is penalized all the time. It looks like our hobby has a long way to go.

[skypinkblu]

Just go with blue for good tape and we're done with this. I say go for the simplest, most direct fix.

 

Even though everyone agrees that tape is bad nobody can universally agree on how to deal with the tape issue.

 

These are the different opinions -

 

Keep it in a blue label but down grade tape heavily?

Keep it in a blue label but upgrade archival tape greatly to encourage it's use over tape?

Put tape in a purple label?

 

Have I missed anything?

 

 

Note the tape on the blue label and do not give the book a grade increase. Grade it as if the tape were not applied.

 

+1 and the next time I need to say something in less words, I'm PMing you first;)

[TSwift25]

Tape's bad, I hate tape, I think a lot of people hate tape. It's "bad" for the paper it's on, and it's an eyesore. In the end, as long as people keep buying the tape resurrected books, it'll keep happening. If they don't, then it probably slows and/or stops.

[shrunkenhead]

CGC also sways submitters to keep rusty staples in books to keep the label blue, when ultimately the best thing for the long term would be to remove the rusted staples, but nobody wants a glod.

 

This is a valid point. Rusted staples are not allowed to be replaced without being "penalized", even though replacing the staples is the best thing for the comic book in the long run.

 

Taking this a few steps further, what do you think will eventually happen to all the unrestored comics? Sooner or later they will become brittle & fall apart. It's only a matter of time. However, the comics that were "restored" early on by being de-acidified will outlast the unrestored comics. Yet at this moment in time, de-acidified comics are deemed restored and are "penalized", even though in the long run it is the best thing for them.

 

Sooner or later, these restored comics will be worth more than the unrestored comics. Why? The restored de-acidified comics will still have Off-White pages with 100's of years of life remaining in them. The unrestored comics will be slightly brittle, brittle, or dust. It will happen, it's only a matter of time.

 

At this time, who is willing to take their perfectly good unrestored comics and have them de-acidified? No one! No one want to spend money doing this only to loose money as it's value would plummet in the short run. Yet, de-acidifying the books is what's best for them.

 

So, to recap. Tape (which is bad) is rewarded sometimes. Replacing rusted staples (which is good) is penalized all the time. De-acidifying (which is good) is penalized all the time. It looks like our hobby has a long way to go.

 

Great post. The hobby definitely could use a shift in its aims and objectives, one that privileges preservation and provides tangible rewards ($$) for attentive collectors, dealers, etc.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Tape's bad, I hate tape, I think a lot of people hate tape. It's "bad" for the paper it's on, and it's an eyesore. In the end, as long as people keep buying the tape resurrected books, it'll keep happening. If they don't, then it probably slows and/or stops.

A ton of blue labeled golden age comics have tape on them. If tape is no longer allowed on them to be a true blue, then true universal blue labeled golden age books just got a whole lot more scarce.

[Boba]

I'd like to see conservation allowed, REAL conservation...on lower grade books...if a spine is split, I'd love to be able to use some archival method (glue, etc) so it doesn't split more.

 

I understand that on high grade books, these things are mostly manipulative, but there are others of us, who collect old cruddy BOOKS, that could use some help...

 

Kind of like the difference between a face lift and surgery to correct a dangerous mole or something.[/color]

 

Great idea Sha (thumbs u Seriously, what the heck is horrible about reinforcing a split spine on a low to lower middle-grade? It stabilizes the book and makes it more collectable. So why paint a big red letter on the slab that says stay away? I have a GA book that is like falling apart, but if it got some minor rice-paper reinforcement it would be a whole easier to handle and even read. I like this idea.

 

Maybe the idea flouted earlier by I think shrunkenhead or Speedy-D, use Purple labels ONLY for restored books, not old amateur repairs and touch-ups. These could be relegated to the notes on the slab, and I think everyone would be happier.

 

[The Troll King]

Here's a question. I'm not being rhetorical either as I have a book with this condition.

 

If a book with tape is grading higher than one without tape and getting a blue label, why is my Phantom Lady book with a "tear seal" in a PLOD?

 

[Boba]

But to open the doors for inexperienced CGC collectors to be preyed upon is IMHO a bad thing.

Buyer beware. I'm just saying, why should CGC retain fucockta rules to protect a minority of their (and our) interests?

[VintageComics]

I'd like to see conservation allowed, REAL conservation...on lower grade books...if a spine is split, I'd love to be able to use some archival method (glue, etc) so it doesn't split more.

 

I understand that on high grade books, these things are mostly manipulative, but there are others of us, who collect old cruddy BOOKS, that could use some help...

 

Kind of like the difference between a face lift and surgery to correct a dangerous mole or something.[/color]

 

Great idea Sha (thumbs u Seriously, what the heck is horrible about reinforcing a split spine on a low to lower middle-grade? It stabilizes the book and makes it more collectable. So why paint a big red letter on the slab that says stay away? I have a GA book that is like falling apart, but if it got some minor rice-paper reinforcement it would be a whole easier to handle and even read. I like this idea.

 

Maybe the idea flouted earlier by I think shrunkenhead or Speedy-D, use Purple labels ONLY for restored books, not old amateur repairs and touch-ups. These could be relegated to the notes on the slab, and I think everyone would be happier.

 

The reason people shun restored books is because for decades restored books were sold as unrestored by unscrupulous sellers.

 

Once those buyers found out their books were restored it created a backlash created a strong dislike for any form of repair. This happened around the time that comics became very valuable as well.

 

So the backlash was because people were duped out of money/value that they thought they had in those books.

 

The problem now is that as soon as someone hears the term "restored" that nervous tick backlash happens every time with many people. The reality is that some restored books are still very valuable.

 

The value in a restored book is tied directly to how much or how little restoration or conservation was done to a book.

 

So a book with only a tiny amount of restoration on an otherwise gorgeous book should not cut the value to a small fraction of the unrestored value, but in reality it does.

 

And this is where the dilemma is.

 

A large push on education in understanding degrees of restoration and how to detect it is what I believe will open people's eyes to see the value in restoration and conservation and allow them to appreciate comics even if it has a dot of colour or a small tear seal, or a deacidification bath or replaced staples.

 

I believe this will be the next large change in the hobby if comics stick around because the reality is that eventually, every comic ever printed will need some form of restoration or conservation to be done to it in order for it to last.

 

This is why some people believe the purple label did more harm than good. It divided comics into two categories, "good" or "bad" rather than - good - better - best.

 

As a collector, I love books with almost no resto to them. Because most people don't understand restoration, they sell for a song and they look like a million.

[shrunkenhead]

But to open the doors for inexperienced CGC collectors to be preyed upon is IMHO a bad thing.

Buyer beware. I'm just saying, why should CGC retain fucockta rules to protect a minority of their (and our) interests?

 

Because CGC is meant to level the playing field. If newbies get burned out of thousands of dollars and the response is "buyer beware," there will be no new lifeblood and the value of old-timers' collections will gradually decline. Protecting the new breed is in everyone's best interests--not just a minority.

[Boba]

Tape, is tape... it repairs a flaw. It is resto, Purple label all day, let the market decide what they will.

You had me until you said this Kenny. I don't think a piece of tape added by little homer back-in-the-day was done with the intention of retiring the book, and anyone doing it today with half-a-brain is only trying to optimize their returns (like the More Fun posted). Neither of which is restorative. More like misguided attempts at conservation.

I agree Purple has a purpose, but not on a book with tape or crude marker touch-ups. They are flaws, not restorations. I think CGC needs to amend this, one way or another.

But like Roy said, that's just my opinion, not saying it's right.

[VintageComics]

But to open the doors for inexperienced CGC collectors to be preyed upon is IMHO a bad thing.

Buyer beware. I'm just saying, why should CGC retain fucockta rules to protect a minority of their (and our) interests?

 

Because CGC is meant to level the playing field. If newbies get burned out of thousands of dollars and the response is "buyer beware," there will be no new lifeblood and the value of old-timers' collections will gradually decline. Protecting the new breed is in everyone's best interests--not just a minority.

 

Yes, but Arex is saying that if there was a uni-colour labelling system where all resto was clearly described on the label, that buyers would get burned more than they do now.

 

That's what I truly don't understand. And believe me, as mister relativity, I've tried to understand that POV.

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

Tape, is tape... it repairs a flaw. It is resto, Purple label all day, let the market decide what they will.

You had me until you said this Kenny. I don't think a piece of tape added by little homer back-in-the-day was done with the intention of retiring the book, and anyone doing it today with half-a-brain is only trying to optimize their returns (like the More Fun posted). Neither of which is restorative. More like misguided attempts at conservation.

I agree Purple has a purpose, but not on a book with tape or crude marker touch-ups. They are flaws, not restorations. I think CGC needs to amend this, one way or another.

But like Roy said, that's just my opinion, not saying it's right.

 

I think Kenny is saying that whether little Homer does it or big Kenny does it, it's still a repair and should default into a purple label.

 

By treating it that way, nobody would be taping books as a mature adult.

 

 

[VintageComics]

Oh, and I wish I bought that More Fun #54 when Peter had it for sale.

 

It's a dream book of mine. I just didn't have the scratch at the time. I'd have cracked that puppy out and stuffed it into a Mylar for the rest of it's life.

 

[Chespirito]

Simple solution.... don't buy books with tape on it.

If we are to use the Tape issue as a vehicle for discussion, this thread basically argues that whilst a traumatic complex of altering a comic may bring about dissociation of the psyche, this is not the only possibility, nor is dissociation necessarily to be seen solely as a difficulty to be overcome. If trauma is experienced within the context of the validity of tape supportting the comics (in whichever form) to be whole, the experience of the traumatic "I didn't kjnow it had tape," may generate integration not only of the trauma but also of the growth potential that the trauma has previously inhibited.

 

 

True dat' bro

 

Had a feeling you'd say that...

[Boba]

Here's a question. I'm not being rhetorical either as I have a book with this condition.

 

If a book with tape is grading higher than one without tape and getting a blue label, why is my Phantom Lady book with a "tear seal" in a PLOD?

 

 

Yeah, I saw that comment - that's a good question, and one that points to the conservation vs. restoration questions.

Maybe they should have another color label for conservation

 

Kenny is saying that whether little Homer does it or big Kenny does it, it's still a repair and should default into a purple label.

 

By treating it that way, nobody would be taping books as a mature adult.

 

 

But the old taped-books would be purple.

Doesn't that seem a bit punitive?