The BIGGEST problems in the hobby right now

[skypinkblu]

Couple of things from the cheap seats:

Having a one color label is just asking people to get over. Plain and simple. There're people who would take a new or non experienced CGC collector and with a one colored label could schmooze and sweet talk that person and sell them a pig in a poke. Basically they would sodomize them and then toss them in a dumpster.

It isn't the purple label that reduces the value of a book it's the restoration on it that does. Why some people here think that a one color label does that makes no sense to me. Although I could see why some sellers would like that.

 

Arex, I can see your point, but there are lots of people who don't understand how "bad" purple is to others.... especially people who are not on these boards , so even purple doesn't do the trick. Honestly, before I came here, I just figured it was another pretty color label..that told some information about what was done to the book..I never heard the term PLOD, till I posted here...and I had collected for a while.

 

I'd like to see conservation allowed, REAL conservation...on lower grade books...if a spine is split, I'd love to be able to use some archival method (glue, etc) so it doesn't split more.

 

I understand that on high grade books, these things are mostly manipulative, but there are others of us, who collect old cruddy BOOKS, that could use some help...

 

Kind of like the difference between a face lift and surgery to correct a dangerous mole or something.

[Timmay]

. Although I could see why some sellers would like that.

 

[VintageComics]

Couple of things from the cheap seats:

Having a one color label is just asking people to get over. Plain and simple. There're people who would take a new or non experienced CGC collector and with a one colored label could schmooze and sweet talk that person and sell them a pig in a poke. Basically they would sodomize them and then toss them in a dumpster.

 

That's assuming people don't know how to read clearly written notations on a label and probably exaggerating the point more than a little.

 

It isn't the purple label that reduces the value of a book it's the restoration on it that does. Why some people here think that a one color label does that makes no sense to me.

 

If CGC had introduced one label colour with notations depicting all work on the label right at the outset then there would have been a "learning period" as people got adjusted to what everything meant and where each label stood in the pecking order, but that would have been no different than deciphering what any of the new labels meant in 2000 when CGC started up as they did.

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

 

I think whoever made the post about CGC reclassifying removable archival tape to blue label had a great idea. That way it would in fact protect the books from the long term damage of scotch tape, and get CGC a bunch of new submissions (people would theoretically resub books with archival tape)

 

Thank you, sir. And with new subs comes more revenue. Cgc gets to revise their policy to something more correct and generate more money. Perfect!

 

I am available for hire as a PR guy.

 

What happens with the (1000 or so) books with bad tape already in blue labels?

 

 

If CGC changes their policy, it's going to lower the value of the books with tape, or at the least, take more people out of the market for them.

 

If I were someone who bought slabbed books with tape thinking that the rules were going to stay the same, I'd be pretty upset if there was a midstream change.

 

[VintageComics]

Couple of things from the cheap seats:

Having a one color label is just asking people to get over. Plain and simple. There're people who would take a new or non experienced CGC collector and with a one colored label could schmooze and sweet talk that person and sell them a pig in a poke. Basically they would sodomize them and then toss them in a dumpster.

It isn't the purple label that reduces the value of a book it's the restoration on it that does. Why some people here think that a one color label does that makes no sense to me. Although I could see why some sellers would like that.

 

Arex, I can see your point, but there are lots of people who don't understand how "bad" purple is to others.... especially people who are not on these boards , so even purple doesn't do the trick. Honestly, before I came here, I just figured it was another pretty color label..that told some information about what was done to the book..I never heard the term PLOD, till I posted here...and I had collected for a while.

 

I agree.

 

Just like people had to be programmed to accept purple labels as restored, they similarly also could have been programmed to accept blue labels with restoration notations as restored.

[arexcrooke]

Couple of things from the cheap seats:

Having a one color label is just asking people to get over. Plain and simple. There're people who would take a new or non experienced CGC collector and with a one colored label could schmooze and sweet talk that person and sell them a pig in a poke. Basically they would sodomize them and then toss them in a dumpster.

It isn't the purple label that reduces the value of a book it's the restoration on it that does. Why some people here think that a one color label does that makes no sense to me. Although I could see why some sellers would like that.

 

Arex, I can see your point, but there are lots of people who don't understand how "bad" purple is to others.... especially people who are not on these boards , so even purple doesn't do the trick. Honestly, before I came here, I just figured it was another pretty color label..that told some information about what was done to the book..I never heard the term PLOD, till I posted here...and I had collected for a while.

 

I'd like to see conservation allowed, REAL conservation...on lower grade books...if a spine is split, I'd love to be able to use some archival method (glue, etc) so it doesn't split more.

 

I understand that on high grade books, these things are mostly manipulative, but there are others of us, who collect old cruddy BOOKS, that could use some help...

 

Kind of like the difference between a face lift and surgery to correct a dangerous mole or something.

I understand to a point what you are saying Sha. But with the different color labels it is much easier for the collector to look at two books, one blue and one purple, and ask: what is the difference. And it then becomes hard for the seller to spin it to where they misplay and downplay the facts of what is going on with the book. With a universal color for all books that becomes much easier to do. Which is mislead the newer CGC collector. That protection that is afforded a person just because they can see the difference in color labels is a big protection. And CGC is really built on impartiality and helping the consumer protect themselves from shady dealings.

I agree that tweaking to the restoration acknowledgement and expression through the CGC label could use some refinement. But to open the doors for inexperienced CGC collectors to be preyed upon is IMHO a bad thing.

And don't think that there aren't people who would be more than happy to mislead and take advantage of collectors. Cause there are.

[skypinkblu]

Couple of things from the cheap seats:

Having a one color label is just asking people to get over. Plain and simple. There're people who would take a new or non experienced CGC collector and with a one colored label could schmooze and sweet talk that person and sell them a pig in a poke. Basically they would sodomize them and then toss them in a dumpster.

It isn't the purple label that reduces the value of a book it's the restoration on it that does. Why some people here think that a one color label does that makes no sense to me. Although I could see why some sellers would like that.

 

Arex, I can see your point, but there are lots of people who don't understand how "bad" purple is to others.... especially people who are not on these boards , so even purple doesn't do the trick. Honestly, before I came here, I just figured it was another pretty color label..that told some information about what was done to the book..I never heard the term PLOD, till I posted here...and I had collected for a while.

 

I agree.

 

Just like people had to be programmed to accept purple labels as restored, they similarly also could have been programmed to accept HOT PINK labels with restoration notations as restored.

 

 

Fixed;)

[VintageComics]

. Although I could see why some sellers would like that.

 

 

It's almost insulting to collectors to say that they wouldn't know the difference between a restored book if all the labels were the same colour. If all of the work was notated on the label then each collector could make a decision as to what he wanted written on the label without the colour of the label creating an unnecessary bias.

 

Those that wanted unrestored books could choose labels with no notations at all.

 

Those that didn't want unrestored books could choose labels with notations that suited them best.

 

And most of all, I believe it would force collectors to give better attention to what they were buying and would encourage them to learn more about what each notation was and meant rather than just dumbing it down to teach them a Pavlovian response to avoid a certain colour.

 

 

[VintageComics]

HOT PINK SHOES!

 

 

[Larryw7]

Couple of things from the cheap seats:

Having a one color label is just asking people to get over. Plain and simple. There're people who would take a new or non experienced CGC collector and with a one colored label could schmooze and sweet talk that person and sell them a pig in a poke. Basically they would sodomize them and then toss them in a dumpster.

It isn't the purple label that reduces the value of a book it's the restoration on it that does. Why some people here think that a one color label does that makes no sense to me. Although I could see why some sellers would like that.

 

Arex, I can see your point, but there are lots of people who don't understand how "bad" purple is to others.... especially people who are not on these boards , so even purple doesn't do the trick. Honestly, before I came here, I just figured it was another pretty color label..that told some information about what was done to the book..I never heard the term PLOD, till I posted here...and I had collected for a while.

 

I'd like to see conservation allowed, REAL conservation...on lower grade books...if a spine is split, I'd love to be able to use some archival method (glue, etc) so it doesn't split more.

 

I understand that on high grade books, these things are mostly manipulative, but there are others of us, who collect old cruddy BOOKS, that could use some help...

 

Kind of like the difference between a face lift and surgery to correct a dangerous mole or something.

 

Excellent post!

[arexcrooke]

. Although I could see why some sellers would like that.

 

Yeah shocking isn't it.

[skypinkblu]

Couple of things from the cheap seats:

Having a one color label is just asking people to get over. Plain and simple. There're people who would take a new or non experienced CGC collector and with a one colored label could schmooze and sweet talk that person and sell them a pig in a poke. Basically they would sodomize them and then toss them in a dumpster.

It isn't the purple label that reduces the value of a book it's the restoration on it that does. Why some people here think that a one color label does that makes no sense to me. Although I could see why some sellers would like that.

 

Arex, I can see your point, but there are lots of people who don't understand how "bad" purple is to others.... especially people who are not on these boards , so even purple doesn't do the trick. Honestly, before I came here, I just figured it was another pretty color label..that told some information about what was done to the book..I never heard the term PLOD, till I posted here...and I had collected for a while.

 

I'd like to see conservation allowed, REAL conservation...on lower grade books...if a spine is split, I'd love to be able to use some archival method (glue, etc) so it doesn't split more.

 

I understand that on high grade books, these things are mostly manipulative, but there are others of us, who collect old cruddy BOOKS, that could use some help...

 

Kind of like the difference between a face lift and surgery to correct a dangerous mole or something.

I understand to a point what you are saying Sha. But with the different color labels it is much easier for the collector to look at two books, one blue and one purple, and ask: what is the difference. And it then becomes hard for the seller to spin it to where they misplay and downplay the facts of what is going on with the book. With a universal color for all books that becomes much easier to do. Which is mislead the newer CGC collector. That protection that is afforded a person just because they can see the difference in color labels is a big protection. And CGC is really built on impartiality and helping the consumer protect themselves from shady dealings.

I agree that tweaking to the restoration acknowledgement and expression through the CGC label could use some refinement. But to open the doors for inexperienced CGC collectors to be preyed upon is IMHO a bad thing.

And don't think that there aren't people who would be more than happy to mislead and take advantage of collectors. Cause there are.

 

Actually Arex, I just don't think there should be a change at all...because it has the potential to harm a lot of people who bought those books...but if there IS a change, I'd like to see a new color label.

 

Of course, CGC could make subtle changes, since they've never published their standards and just start grading books differently, but making them purple...that's a tough move.

 

Someone I know took an expensive Timely with a loose centerfold and had someone else sell it on consignment, a big dealer, who taped in the centerfold, it went from a 3.0/3.5 to a 5.0...I'd NEVER grade a book that way, I'd just grade it at 3.0 and mention the tape.. and CGC certainly could change their grading, but making tape purple is a stick in the eye to people who innocently bought those books.

 

All CGC has to do, is change how they are grading and keep the labels as is. Don't make a book with a completely split taped spine better than a Fair, don't bump for tape, but allow archival tape in a blue label. I don't slab most of my books, but it still seems silly to have pieces falling off when I could make sure they stay together. I'd probably never slab any of those books anyway, but I don't want to sell them to someone, whenever and have them have a problem.

 

As for seeing the different in labels, did you ever shop on eBay where the seller has the colors so fixed up that unless you see the A or P on the left, you might miss the fact the book is restored?

 

[Timmay]

. Although I could see why some sellers would like that.

 

 

It's almost insulting to collectors to say that they wouldn't know the difference between a restored book if all the labels were the same colour. If all of the work was notated on the label then each collector could make a decision as to what he wanted written on the label without the colour of the label creating an unnecessary bias.

 

Those that wanted unrestored books could choose labels with no notations at all.

 

Those that didn't want unrestored books could choose labels with notations that suited them best.

 

And most of all, I believe it would force collectors to give better attention to what they were buying and would encourage them to learn more about what each notation was and meant rather than just dumbing it down to teach them a Pavlovian response to avoid a certain colour.

 

 

So it would be easier to tell the difference if ALL books were in the same blue holder.

 

Qualified, Sig Series, Restored.

 

If the collector is diligent he can read the label and figure out what the *spoon* he is buying.

 

[oakman29]

FU fire turd.

 

Is this the part where I insult you? And then when you say WTF I wait 5 hours and then throw up a response saying you didn't understand what I was saying or took it out of context. Do I have that right?

Good story,bro!

[VintageComics]

. Although I could see why some sellers would like that.

 

 

It's almost insulting to collectors to say that they wouldn't know the difference between a restored book if all the labels were the same colour. If all of the work was notated on the label then each collector could make a decision as to what he wanted written on the label without the colour of the label creating an unnecessary bias.

 

Those that wanted unrestored books could choose labels with no notations at all.

 

Those that didn't want unrestored books could choose labels with notations that suited them best.

 

And most of all, I believe it would force collectors to give better attention to what they were buying and would encourage them to learn more about what each notation was and meant rather than just dumbing it down to teach them a Pavlovian response to avoid a certain colour.

 

 

So it would be easier to tell the difference if ALL books were in the same blue holder.

 

Qualified, Sig Series, Restored.

 

If the collector is diligent he can read the label and figure out what the *spoon* he is buying.

 

 

So you're saying the system is less confusing now?

 

Let's think about it:

 

You're telling me it's less confusing having the following:

 

Blue,

Blue with some notes,

Purple with Slight resto notes,

Purple with Moderate resto notes,

Purple with Extensive resto notes?

 

Compare that to

 

Blue

Blue with some notes

Blue with Slight resto notes

Blue with Moderate resto notes

Blue with Extensive resto notes

 

Yes, I think (along with a few other people who have posted in agreement in this thread) that eliminating the distinction between purple and blue would actually simplify things.

 

But that's just my opinion and nobody has to necessarily agree with it.

 

And it's probably too late to change it now anyway. It's just a hypothetical discussion.

 

 

[shrunkenhead]

I agree that its a bad idea to ditch the color coding. Newbies will get raked.over the coals by.the snakes of the hobby, and we will be shutting the door on the next generation of collectors.

 

Just go with blue for good tape and we're done with this. I say go for the simplest, most direct fix.

[VintageComics]

Just go with blue for good tape and we're done with this. I say go for the simplest, most direct fix.

 

Even though everyone agrees that tape is bad nobody can universally agree on how to deal with the tape issue.

 

These are the different opinions -

 

Keep it in a blue label but down grade tape heavily?

Keep it in a blue label but upgrade archival tape greatly to encourage it's use over tape?

Put tape in a purple label?

 

Have I missed anything?

 

 

[Timmay]

. Although I could see why some sellers would like that.

 

 

It's almost insulting to collectors to say that they wouldn't know the difference between a restored book if all the labels were the same colour. If all of the work was notated on the label then each collector could make a decision as to what he wanted written on the label without the colour of the label creating an unnecessary bias.

 

Those that wanted unrestored books could choose labels with no notations at all.

 

Those that didn't want unrestored books could choose labels with notations that suited them best.

 

And most of all, I believe it would force collectors to give better attention to what they were buying and would encourage them to learn more about what each notation was and meant rather than just dumbing it down to teach them a Pavlovian response to avoid a certain colour.

 

 

So it would be easier to tell the difference if ALL books were in the same blue holder.

 

Qualified, Sig Series, Restored.

 

If the collector is diligent he can read the label and figure out what the *spoon* he is buying.

 

 

So you're saying the system is less confusing now?

 

Let's think about it:

 

You're telling me it's less confusing having the following:

 

Blue,

Blue with some notes,

Purple with Slight resto notes,

Purple with Moderate resto notes,

Purple with Extensive resto notes?

 

Compare that to

 

Blue

Blue with some notes

Blue with Slight resto notes

Blue with Moderate resto notes

Blue with Extensive resto notes

 

Yes, I think (along with a few other people who have posted in agreement in this thread) that eliminating the distinction between purple and blue would actually simplify things.

 

But that's just my opinion and nobody has to necessarily agree with it.

 

And it's probably too late to change it now anyway. It's just a hypothetical discussion.

 

 

You left out yellow and green.

 

They should be blue also?

[VintageComics]

You left out yellow and green.

 

They should be blue also?

 

No silly Timmay, I thought we were specifically talking about resto and non resto books and the subject of tape weren't we?

 

 

[Speedy-D]

I agree that its a bad idea to ditch the color coding. Newbies will get raked.over the coals by.the snakes of the hobby, and we will be shutting the door on the next generation of collectors.

 

Just go with blue for good tape and we're done with this. I say go for the simplest, most direct fix.

But the whole point was that regular tape actually hurts a comic, and that giving it a blue label just increases the practice. I don't buy the notion that giving archival tape a blue label as well will in any way reduce the amount of destructive tape being applied to comics for a short term financial gain.

 

Give comics with tape an apparent (PLOD grade). They don't even need to worry about whether there's a tear or just a crease under the tape. See some tape? How's it look? "'Apparently' it's a 4.0, but who knows under that tape?" Isn't that what the PLOD is all about?