PGX Question

[brendanb438]

Wow, I gave an honest and complete evaluation of my own personal grading experiences and I clarified this was only my own personal evaluation (quite harsh on PGX in several areas) for several groups of submissions. This was a personal experiment to see first hand how things were working over at the other side the past couple years. FYI, I slammed PGX on over grading and other issues several times, yet I guess I can't have anything decent to say on being satisfied with "some" of the higher graded books I got back and some of the restoration they caught without being called a shill!!! How much sense does that make?

 

I already know first hand that 1.0 to 5.5 range PGX grades are often 1+ grades too soft, but really most people can easily tell that just by looking at the book in the case without even breaking open the slab. (so buy the book, not the slab!) Same goes for CGC for that matter, that is why I (like most collectors) try to buy CGC books that look better than the assigned grade. As I have not had any missed resto issues yet from my own PGX experiment, I would like to learn if other people have had personal experiences with missed resto from the past couple of years? I don't doubt it has happened, I just would just like to hear first hand info from other collectors to help satisfy my curiosity how often it still happens?

 

Lets see, you are on a CGC sponsored forum. A bunch of your posts are negative and somewhat against CGC. Then all your other posts are very pro and cheerleadery towards PGX. How do you think it looks towards most of us in regards to your posting?

[TheShadowKnows]

I don't know if he has any cheap slabs on his Ebay site, (DJBrady4U) but someone should win one and out him as owner and grader for PGX in the feedback.

 

DJBrady4U has been identified as Ryan Elliott. Daniel Patterson owns PGX, to the best of my knowledge. But Elliott's "access" to PGX's equipment has been discussed before.

 

PGX is the best thing going for CGC right now. It is the exact opposite of legitimate competition.

so who was the guy spotted purchasing that CGC Avengers #4 at a convention earlier this year, only to have it end up in a DJBrady auction with a much higher grade?

That would be Ryan Elliott.I watched him buy it.

[Tony S]

Wow, I gave an honest and complete evaluation of my own personal grading experiences and I clarified this was only my own personal evaluation (quite harsh on PGX in several areas) for several groups of submissions. This was a personal experiment to see first hand how things were working over at the other side the past couple years. FYI, I slammed PGX on over grading and other issues several times, yet I guess I can't have anything decent to say on being satisfied with "some" of the higher graded books I got back and some of the restoration they caught without being called a shill!!! How much sense does that make?

 

I already know first hand that 1.0 to 5.5 range PGX grades are often 1+ grades too soft, but really most people can easily tell that just by looking at the book in the case without even breaking open the slab. (so buy the book, not the slab!) Same goes for CGC for that matter, that is why I (like most collectors) try to buy CGC books that look better than the assigned grade. As I have not had any missed resto issues yet from my own PGX experiment, I would like to learn if other people have had personal experiences with missed resto from the past couple of years? I don't doubt it has happened, I just would just like to hear first hand info from other collectors to help satisfy my curiosity how often it still happens?

 

Lets see, you are on a CGC sponsored forum. A bunch of your posts are negative and somewhat against CGC. Then all your other posts are very pro and cheerleadery towards PGX. How do you think it looks towards most of us in regards to your posting?

 

I see seven pages of posts by TC33 going back two plus years. It is way to much trouble to review every post ever made by anyone and everyone that does post. There must be 50 or more boardies that have commented on this thread. Are we really supposed to read every post every one of them has ever made in order to formulate a proper response to the posts made here? Some of the boardies have 1000's of posts just in the last few months. Is there a reason the posts on this thread cannot be taken at face value and addressed that way?

 

Each and every one of us is responsible for our behavior and what we say. On these boards included. We choose to be rude or we choose to be polite. Name calling is rude. Sadly, a break down in common courtesy seems all to common on internet forums. Anonymous and thousands of miles away, it becomes OK to say things we would never say to someone's face.

 

I don't read any cheerleadery in TC33's posts. It seems fairly balanced. The problem on this forum is that if you say anything less than "PGX is a bunch of basement dwelling, knuckle dragging, nose picking crooks" then you get labeled on drugs, a shill, an apologist, a novice or otherwise just ignorant.

 

I will post up if hear back from Barry Gaylor or have purchased a book from DJBRADY4U and ID him.

[Tony S]

I don't know if he has any cheap slabs on his Ebay site, (DJBrady4U) but someone should win one and out him as owner and grader for PGX in the feedback.

 

DJBrady4U has been identified as Ryan Elliott. Daniel Patterson owns PGX, to the best of my knowledge. But Elliott's "access" to PGX's equipment has been discussed before.

 

PGX is the best thing going for CGC right now. It is the exact opposite of legitimate competition.

so who was the guy spotted purchasing that CGC Avengers #4 at a convention earlier this year, only to have it end up in a DJBrady auction with a much higher grade?

That would be Ryan Elliott.I watched him buy it.

 

Thank you!! Very useful information. So you know Ryan Elliott by sight. Do you know Barry Gaylor? Is there a connection between the two? If you go to www.DJBRADY4U.com there is a picture of him on the site.

 

I guess this means your are not really in Greece with Nik?

[Calidream'n]

I don't know if he has any cheap slabs on his Ebay site, (DJBrady4U) but someone should win one and out him as owner and grader for PGX in the feedback.

 

DJBrady4U has been identified as Ryan Elliott. Daniel Patterson owns PGX, to the best of my knowledge. But Elliott's "access" to PGX's equipment has been discussed before.

 

PGX is the best thing going for CGC right now. It is the exact opposite of legitimate competition.

so who was the guy spotted purchasing that CGC Avengers #4 at a convention earlier this year, only to have it end up in a DJBrady auction with a much higher grade?

That would be Ryan Elliott.I watched him buy it.

 

Thank you!! Very useful information. So you know Ryan Elliott by sight. Do you know Barry Gaylor? Is there a connection between the two? If you go to www.DJBRADY4U.com there is a picture of him on the site.

 

I guess this means your are not really in Greece with Nik?

Hmm, a professional DJ who just happens to dabble in high grade PGX books which just happens to be based in his home state not far from where he lives. I see nothing wrong here.....

[brendanb438]

Wow, I gave an honest and complete evaluation of my own personal grading experiences and I clarified this was only my own personal evaluation (quite harsh on PGX in several areas) for several groups of submissions. This was a personal experiment to see first hand how things were working over at the other side the past couple years. FYI, I slammed PGX on over grading and other issues several times, yet I guess I can't have anything decent to say on being satisfied with "some" of the higher graded books I got back and some of the restoration they caught without being called a shill!!! How much sense does that make?

 

I already know first hand that 1.0 to 5.5 range PGX grades are often 1+ grades too soft, but really most people can easily tell that just by looking at the book in the case without even breaking open the slab. (so buy the book, not the slab!) Same goes for CGC for that matter, that is why I (like most collectors) try to buy CGC books that look better than the assigned grade. As I have not had any missed resto issues yet from my own PGX experiment, I would like to learn if other people have had personal experiences with missed resto from the past couple of years? I don't doubt it has happened, I just would just like to hear first hand info from other collectors to help satisfy my curiosity how often it still happens?

 

Lets see, you are on a CGC sponsored forum. A bunch of your posts are negative and somewhat against CGC. Then all your other posts are very pro and cheerleadery towards PGX. How do you think it looks towards most of us in regards to your posting?

 

I see seven pages of posts by TC33 going back two plus years. It is way to much trouble to review every post ever made by anyone and everyone that does post. There must be 50 or more boardies that have commented on this thread. Are we really supposed to read every post every one of them has ever made in order to formulate a proper response to the posts made here? Some of the boardies have 1000's of posts just in the last few months. Is there a reason the posts on this thread cannot be taken at face value and addressed that way?

 

Each and every one of us is responsible for our behavior and what we say. On these boards included. We choose to be rude or we choose to be polite. Name calling is rude. Sadly, a break down in common courtesy seems all to common on internet forums. Anonymous and thousands of miles away, it becomes OK to say things we would never say to someone's face.

 

I don't read any cheerleadery in TC33's posts. It seems fairly balanced. The problem on this forum is that if you say anything less than "PGX is a bunch of basement dwelling, knuckle dragging, nose picking crooks" then you get labeled on drugs, a shill, an apologist, a novice or otherwise just ignorant.

 

I will post up if hear back from Barry Gaylor or have purchased a book from DJBRADY4U and ID him.

 

At this point you are just being ignorant to the facts. Ryan Elliot has been confronted in person at a few different cons where he bought books that had restoration and then they magically were cracked out and slabbed in PGX cases under higher grades w/out the resto being disclosed. These then were sold under the eBay accounts linked to him including the JDBRADY4U account.

 

It is Ryan Elliot who is behind the scenes of that account. Whether he got someone else to let him use the account or set it up under his info who knows. But it is him.

[Calidream'n]

I heard that if you opt for the same-day walk through service at PGX, you get either oatmeal raisin or chocolate chip cookies made by Patterson's own mom while you wait! (your choice of sofa in the family room or comfy chair in the kitchen)

[Tony S]

That would be Ryan Elliott.I watched him buy it.

 

Thank you!! Very useful information. So you know Ryan Elliott by sight. Do you know Barry Gaylor? Is there a connection between the two? If you go to www.DJBRADY4U.com there is a picture of him on the site.

 

I guess this means your are not really in Greece with Nik?

Hmm, a professional DJ who just happens to dabble in high grade PGX books which just happens to be based in his home state not far from where he lives. I see nothing wrong here.....

 

So far, it appears I am the one that has first discovered the Brady connection. Yes, I see something wrong and I've asked if anyone can connect the dots - for certain - and not just speculate.

 

I know several local musicians well. All of them have some sort of unusual side business since the music scene is feast or famine. One for instance makes tons of cash raising and selling snakes. Over 300 breeding pairs in an enviromentally controlled garage. A DJ selling comics is no more crazy than a drummer that sells snakes. Nor is it strange that if you lived a few miles from PGX you might use their service.

 

A DJ that only sells high grade PGX books - especially some that have eye witness accounts of being sold to a PGX grader shortly before appearing in PGX slabs- now that is evidence.

 

Some of us are learning. You started out thinking it was Daniel himsefl So back to you.

[Tony S]

At this point you are just being ignorant to the facts. Ryan Elliot has been confronted in person at a few different cons where he bought books that had restoration and then they magically were cracked out and slabbed in PGX cases under higher grades w/out the resto being disclosed. These then were sold under the eBay accounts linked to him including the JDBRADY4U account.

 

It is Ryan Elliot who is behind the scenes of that account. Whether he got someone else to let him use the account or set it up under his info who knows. But it is him.

 

Well, we are close to agreement. Except I want to know whether it is Ryan or someone else. That is not ignorant of the facts, that is wanting to know all the facts. You appear to be content to just assume it is one or the other.

 

Why I want to know whether it is Ryan or someone else ought to be obvious. If Ryan buys the books - and has a confederate (Brady) turn them in for grading and selling- then it could easily be a scam known only to Ryan and the confederate. The owner, the other employees of PGX may not be aware. And if it is the "head" grader, then it would be easy for the grade to come out as desired. Especially if it's true that the grader can "work late" unsupervised.

 

If you think about it, this is a scam that could be perpetrated in any grading company by a senior grader. Or any grader senior or otherwise that struck up a bargain with other graders. Coins, comics, cards.

 

So - I continue seeking the facts. If proof can be had then I'll send it to the owner of PGX and see what happens.

 

I've mentioned before that I suck at forum searches. Does anyone have links to the books that were purchased restored and reappeared as PGX unrestored? Preferably proof includes Ryan purchasing said books.

[chrisco37]

Use google ILO board search function.

 

Type in what you want to find out and add "collectors society message boards" to the end of it.

 

For instance:

 

"PGX collectors society message boards"

[Calidream'n]

At this point you are just being ignorant to the facts. Ryan Elliot has been confronted in person at a few different cons where he bought books that had restoration and then they magically were cracked out and slabbed in PGX cases under higher grades w/out the resto being disclosed. These then were sold under the eBay accounts linked to him including the JDBRADY4U account.

 

It is Ryan Elliot who is behind the scenes of that account. Whether he got someone else to let him use the account or set it up under his info who knows. But it is him.

 

Well, we are close to agreement. Except I want to know whether it is Ryan or someone else. That is not ignorant of the facts, that is wanting to know all the facts. You appear to be content to just assume it is one or the other.

 

Why I want to know whether it is Ryan or someone else ought to be obvious. If Ryan buys the books - and has a confederate (Brady) turn them in for grading and selling- then it could easily be a scam known only to Ryan and the confederate. The owner, the other employees of PGX may not be aware. And if it is the "head" grader, then it would be easy for the grade to come out as desired. Especially if it's true that the grader can "work late" unsupervised.

If you think about it, this is a scam that could be perpetrated in any grading company by a senior grader. Or any grader senior or otherwise that struck up a bargain with other graders. Coins, comics, cards.

 

So - I continue seeking the facts. If proof can be had then I'll send it to the owner of PGX and see what happens.

 

I've mentioned before that I suck at forum searches. Does anyone have links to the books that were purchased restored and reappeared as PGX unrestored? Preferably proof includes Ryan purchasing said books.

Tony, why not start out by calling or writing to PGX and asking for a tour of their grading facilities. Let us all know what happens....

[HugeRosen]

Tony, why not start out by calling or writing to PGX and asking for a tour of their grading facilities. Let us all know what happens....

 

PGX grading facilities:

 

[Tony S]

Atif Tony, why not start out by calling or writing to PGX and asking for a tour of their grading facilities. Let us all know what happens....

 

Because 1) It's a two day drive - I would not take the tour if offered 2) Because I'm not concerned about the grading facility. The grader in question is the concern. 3) I have some investigative experience. One typically talks to the target towards the end of the investigation with facts in hand - not at the beginning.

 

You asked. If it was just a joke sorry

[Calidream'n]

Atif Tony, why not start out by calling or writing to PGX and asking for a tour of their grading facilities. Let us all know what happens....

 

Because 1) It's a two day drive - I would not take the tour if offered 2) Because I'm not concerned about the grading facility. The grader in question is the concern. 3) I have some investigative experience. One typically talks to the target towards the end of the investigation with facts in hand - not at the beginning.

 

You asked. If it was just a joke sorry

Tony, the only joke is you don't realize that PGX is not a company along the lines of a CGC. There is no "facility". There is no "staff". They couldn't offer you a tour if they wanted to. Oh, you just don't get it yet. Either that, or you know full well and are having some fun. Either way, good luck to you in your dealings with these crooks. (while youre at it, pick up something from Robojo why don't you?)

[Tony S]

Atif Tony, why not start out by calling or writing to PGX and asking for a tour of their grading facilities. Let us all know what happens....

 

Because 1) It's a two day drive - I would not take the tour if offered 2) Because I'm not concerned about the grading facility. The grader in question is the concern. 3) I have some investigative experience. One typically talks to the target towards the end of the investigation with facts in hand - not at the beginning.

 

You asked. If it was just a joke sorry

Tony, the only joke is you don't realize that PGX is not a company along the lines of a CGC. There is no "facility". There is no "staff". They couldn't offer you a tour if they wanted to. Oh, you just don't get it yet. Either that, or you know full well and are having some fun. Either way, good luck to you in your dealings with these crooks. (while youre at it, pick up something from Robojo why don't you?)

 

For Goodness sakes Mr. Returner. Quit putting words in my mouth and quit thinking the worst of me. I've never suggested that PGX is a company along the lines of (or on par with) CGC. Obviously PGX could offer a tour if they wanted - even if the tour was of the basement or garage. Any tour just wouldn't take very long. As Yoda said - "judge me by my size, do you?" . It doesn't matter how big they are - obviously they large enough to manage to slab books. They must have some staff, or there wouldn't be a grader named Ryan Elliott that is supposed to be pulling some scams. I'm not interested in a tour.I am interested in connecting the dots between a PGX grader and a seller of PGX books. If I can connect the dots, I plan to bring them to the attention of the owner of PGX and ask if he's aware of this. And see what happens.

 

You and I are both from the Midwest. We are supposed to be a region of skeptical "show me" type people. At your suggestion, I'm doing some fact checking. What more exactly is it you want?

 

What does Robojo33 have to do with this? Didn't he quit the business anyway?

[reddwarf666222]

Atif Tony, why not start out by calling or writing to PGX and asking for a tour of their grading facilities. Let us all know what happens....

 

Because 1) It's a two day drive - I would not take the tour if offered 2) Because I'm not concerned about the grading facility. The grader in question is the concern. 3) I have some investigative experience. One typically talks to the target towards the end of the investigation with facts in hand - not at the beginning.

 

You asked. If it was just a joke sorry

Tony, the only joke is you don't realize that PGX is not a company along the lines of a CGC. There is no "facility". There is no "staff". They couldn't offer you a tour if they wanted to. Oh, you just don't get it yet. Either that, or you know full well and are having some fun. Either way, good luck to you in your dealings with these crooks. (while youre at it, pick up something from Robojo why don't you?)

 

For Goodness sakes Mr. Returner. Quit putting words in my mouth and quit thinking the worst of me. I've never suggested that PGX is a company along the lines of (or on par with) CGC. Obviously PGX could offer a tour if they wanted - even if the tour was of the basement or garage. Any tour just wouldn't take very long. As Yoda said - "judge me by my size, do you?" . It doesn't matter how big they are - obviously they large enough to manage to slab books. They must have some staff, or there wouldn't be a grader named Ryan Elliott that is supposed to be pulling some scams. I'm not interested in a tour.I am interested in connecting the dots between a PGX grader and a seller of PGX books. If I can connect the dots, I plan to bring them to the attention of the owner of PGX and ask if he's aware of this. And see what happens.

 

You and I are both from the Midwest. We are supposed to be a region of skeptical "show me" type people. At your suggestion, I'm doing some fact checking. What more exactly is it you want?

 

What does Robojo33 have to do with this? Didn't he quit the business anyway?

I'd just give it up they are going to keep trying to beat you down if you continue. It is doing nobody any good. It does prove one thing the attitudes of these people against you is why alot of people leave the CGC boards. They are CGC trolls and in your case they will refer to you as the PGX troll. I am curious as to what they think of another comic grading company called the CBGC.

[thespazz]

Huge Rosen your picture of the facility is months old. This is the current photo.

 

[Calidream'n]

Tony,

This is a community of collectors, both serious and casual. The reason these boards are so great is that everyone looks out for one another. If valued members of this board tell me PGX are a bunch of crooks, that's good enough for me. (It's usually after plenty of evidence, not just here say) That's the purpose of this boards, to buy, sell, share and enjoy the hobby with fellow collectors and proctect others when there is a need. People like Elliott and Patterson are not reputable people. You're trying to "connect the dots" but there is no connecting to do. It's been done for you by the board detectives. There is ample proof. PGX is a small time operation. If you honestly think Patterson isn't aware of what his one friend/employee is doing, you are naive.

But, go ahead and continue your search. Use PGX is you want, at your own risk. I bring up Robojo because if you are going to do business with crooks, spread the wealth to them all and buy something from ol' Dupak while youre at it.

I really have no idea of your agenda, but youre on a CGC Forum thread trying to paint PGX as innocent until proven guilty. They are guilty. Why you continue in the face of all the replies and evidence is, what's the word I'm looking for, "curious".

Good luck to you.

[oakman29]

Atif Tony, why not start out by calling or writing to PGX and asking for a tour of their grading facilities. Let us all know what happens....

 

Because 1) It's a two day drive - I would not take the tour if offered 2) Because I'm not concerned about the grading facility. The grader in question is the concern. 3) I have some investigative experience. One typically talks to the target towards the end of the investigation with facts in hand - not at the beginning.

 

You asked. If it was just a joke sorry

Tony, the only joke is you don't realize that PGX is not a company along the lines of a CGC. There is no "facility". There is no "staff". They couldn't offer you a tour if they wanted to. Oh, you just don't get it yet. Either that, or you know full well and are having some fun. Either way, good luck to you in your dealings with these crooks. (while youre at it, pick up something from Robojo why don't you?)

 

For Goodness sakes Mr. Returner. Quit putting words in my mouth and quit thinking the worst of me. I've never suggested that PGX is a company along the lines of (or on par with) CGC. Obviously PGX could offer a tour if they wanted - even if the tour was of the basement or garage. Any tour just wouldn't take very long. As Yoda said - "judge me by my size, do you?" . It doesn't matter how big they are - obviously they large enough to manage to slab books. They must have some staff, or there wouldn't be a grader named Ryan Elliott that is supposed to be pulling some scams. I'm not interested in a tour.I am interested in connecting the dots between a PGX grader and a seller of PGX books. If I can connect the dots, I plan to bring them to the attention of the owner of PGX and ask if he's aware of this. And see what happens.

 

You and I are both from the Midwest. We are supposed to be a region of skeptical "show me" type people. At your suggestion, I'm doing some fact checking. What more exactly is it you want?

 

What does Robojo33 have to do with this? Didn't he quit the business anyway?

I'd just give it up they are going to keep trying to beat you down if you continue. It is doing nobody any good. It does prove one thing the attitudes of these people against you is why alot of people leave the CGC boards. They are CGC trolls and in your case they will refer to you as the PGX troll. I am curious as to what they think of another comic grading company called the CBGC.

I don't know who you are reddwarf,but I take offense to your beat down statement.Enjoy your PGX search for the truth,everything you need to know has been given to you guys.I'm sorry you can't connect the "dots".

[reddwarf666222]

Atif Tony, why not start out by calling or writing to PGX and asking for a tour of their grading facilities. Let us all know what happens....

 

Because 1) It's a two day drive - I would not take the tour if offered 2) Because I'm not concerned about the grading facility. The grader in question is the concern. 3) I have some investigative experience. One typically talks to the target towards the end of the investigation with facts in hand - not at the beginning.

 

You asked. If it was just a joke sorry

Tony, the only joke is you don't realize that PGX is not a company along the lines of a CGC. There is no "facility". There is no "staff". They couldn't offer you a tour if they wanted to. Oh, you just don't get it yet. Either that, or you know full well and are having some fun. Either way, good luck to you in your dealings with these crooks. (while youre at it, pick up something from Robojo why don't you?)

 

For Goodness sakes Mr. Returner. Quit putting words in my mouth and quit thinking the worst of me. I've never suggested that PGX is a company along the lines of (or on par with) CGC. Obviously PGX could offer a tour if they wanted - even if the tour was of the basement or garage. Any tour just wouldn't take very long. As Yoda said - "judge me by my size, do you?" . It doesn't matter how big they are - obviously they large enough to manage to slab books. They must have some staff, or there wouldn't be a grader named Ryan Elliott that is supposed to be pulling some scams. I'm not interested in a tour.I am interested in connecting the dots between a PGX grader and a seller of PGX books. If I can connect the dots, I plan to bring them to the attention of the owner of PGX and ask if he's aware of this. And see what happens.

 

You and I are both from the Midwest. We are supposed to be a region of skeptical "show me" type people. At your suggestion, I'm doing some fact checking. What more exactly is it you want?

 

What does Robojo33 have to do with this? Didn't he quit the business anyway?

I'd just give it up they are going to keep trying to beat you down if you continue. It is doing nobody any good. It does prove one thing the attitudes of these people against you is why alot of people leave the CGC boards. They are CGC trolls and in your case they will refer to you as the PGX troll. I am curious as to what they think of another comic grading company called the CBGC.

I don't know who you are reddwarf,but I take offense to your beat down statement.Enjoy your PGX search for the truth,everything you need to know has been given to you guys.I'm sorry you can't connect the "dots".

Both sides have made their points. I don't own a single PGX book. The local comic shop has taken my advice not to accept PGX books on commissions because they don't sell for the inflated values like CGC books can and the negativity around a PGX book. Do I believe it is a one man operation or low staff operation sure because only Daniel will answer the phone if you call. Do I like them myself no. I just think both sides are acting childish and that this thread should be locked.