CV Comic Verification - a new layer to the encapsulation process

[batman_fan]

How can they do that? are they going to demand everyone to send in their FF#1 in 9.6 so they can say which one looks best?

 

They don't have to. If you own one of those books you're a whale of a collector. One of those 9.6s changed hands in 2008 for $450,000. If you're spending half a million on a single book you probably wouldn't have a problem spending the $3k or whatever the max grading price is to know if your book is better than the other 9.6. If I owned one I'd roll those dice in a heartbeat.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think that paying people to judge a book by its cover is ridiculous, but at some level it makes sense. (Even if it's just validating what we all know...that there is a variance in CGCs grading).

 

Again,how is that possible? In order to know if yours is the best, the judge would need to have seen all the other copies.

[MatterEaterLad]

How can they do that? are they going to demand everyone to send in their FF#1 in 9.6 so they can say which one looks best?

 

They don't have to. If you own one of those books you're a whale of a collector. One of those 9.6s changed hands in 2008 for $450,000. If you're spending half a million on a single book you probably wouldn't have a problem spending the $3k or whatever the max grading price is to know if your book is better than the other 9.6. If I owned one I'd roll those dice in a heartbeat.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think that paying people to judge a book by its cover is ridiculous, but at some level it makes sense. (Even if it's just validating what we all know...that there is a variance in CGCs grading).

 

Again,how is that possible? In order to know if yours is the best, the judge would need to have seen all the other copies.

 

We're getting waaaay into the hypothetical here, but with those two FFs I'm sure there are auction catalogs available, scans, etc. So you could compare for free, but your opinion would be perceived to be biased whereas CVC would be impartial.

 

[Speedy-D]

How can they do that? are they going to demand everyone to send in their FF#1 in 9.6 so they can say which one looks best?

 

They don't have to. If you own one of those books you're a whale of a collector. One of those 9.6s changed hands in 2008 for $450,000. If you're spending half a million on a single book you probably wouldn't have a problem spending the $3k or whatever the max grading price is to know if your book is better than the other 9.6. If I owned one I'd roll those dice in a heartbeat.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think that paying people to judge a book by its cover is ridiculous, but at some level it makes sense. (Even if it's just validating what we all know...that there is a variance in CGCs grading).

I'm sure you're making something, but it ain't sense.

[DrWatson]

The comic verification people aren't comparing this slab against that slab, per se. They are "certifying" that the 9.6, or whatever, you have is a shining example of what a 9.6 should like and not an over-graded 9.4 in a 9.6 holder.

 

All the sticker means is, "Hey, your 9.6 book looks like a really awesome book from what I can see from the front and back cover." If you send one in and it doesn't get a sticker, it means, "Hey, that 9.6 you sent in to have us put a sticker on is butt ugly. So, we are withholding the sticker and your money. Have a nice day!"

[Comicopolis]

Like someone mentioned earlier, it's a great tool for the blind.

 

And the stupid.

[DrWatson]

[bb8]

How can they do that? are they going to demand everyone to send in their FF#1 in 9.6 so they can say which one looks best?

 

They don't have to. If you own one of those books you're a whale of a collector. One of those 9.6s changed hands in 2008 for $450,000. If you're spending half a million on a single book you probably wouldn't have a problem spending the $3k or whatever the max grading price is to know if your book is better than the other 9.6. If I owned one I'd roll those dice in a heartbeat.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think that paying people to judge a book by its cover is ridiculous, but at some level it makes sense. (Even if it's just validating what we all know...that there is a variance in CGCs grading).

I'm sure you're making something, but it ain't sense.

So, the opposite. Incoherence? Yeah, I'll go with that. Sounds right.

[WalkinWillie]

I have two problems with this service (just found out about it today - last kid on the block to do so).

 

One was touched on earlier and that is how will you know that a book is exceptional in comparison to its peers - especially older books - without seeing all the books in that grade? Seems near impossible to do. I can just see a "Gold" sticker attached on a particular comic and a day later a "better" copy in grade comes through that raises the bar.

 

The other is that I'm not sure I would want to sell a book with a CVA sticker on it unless purchased in a collection because of all the people that don't like it. I haven't done a count but it seems that the majority of the posters don't like the service. I can see regular, knowledgeable CGC buyers/dealers on this forum avoiding a CVA stickered book just out of principal and spite.

 

ComicLink has embraced the CVA sticker but until a number of high auction houses do that - and I don't know how many have - then I don't know if the service will have a lot of demand.

 

As an aside, ComicLink has a lot of nice books for sale on a regular basis but it is one of the poorest functioning sites for the end user that I have ever seen - as a database .NET web developer, I cringe every time I go over there. But I digress....

 

Anyway, until this CVA service gets more accepted in the industry - like CGC did and subsequently professional pressing - then I will opt out until I see a definite advantage to the service.

 

Now, I think that what they are doing is NOT unethical at all AND since I am a comic dealer, I DO believe that if you can increase the selling price significantly by spending $35 for a sticker, then there is nothing wrong with that. Just don't know if I will ever do that until I get a ton of data.

 

Does anyone know if GPA mentions the sticker in their database entries? Too lazy to scour through a bunch of entries over there right now.

[chrisco37]

I haven't noticed it called out on GPA.

[WalkinWillie]

One other thing is after looking at their pricing matrix, I see another potential conundrum - sorry if someone posted something similar earlier.

 

Say I have 10 economy books that I want CVA to evaluate. I am obviously going to go the pre-screen route as it is $2.00 a book. Alright, if two of the 10 pass, then my bill is $44 as the pre-screens cost $20 total for 10 books and the two accepted books are $12 each or $24 total.

 

Now the minimum charge is $50.00 per invoice so I guess I am out the $6.00 - or does shipping count towards the $50.00 minimum?

[mschmidt]

One other thing is after looking at their pricing matrix, I see another potential conundrum - sorry if someone posted something similar earlier.

 

Say I have 10 economy books that I want CVA to evaluate. I am obviously going to go the pre-screen route as it is $2.00 a book. Alright, if two of the 10 pass, then my bill is $44 as the pre-screens cost $20 total for 10 books and the two accepted books are $12 each or $24 total.

 

Now the minimum charge is $50.00 per invoice so I guess I am out the $6.00 - or does shipping count towards the $50.00 minimum?

 

Why would you spend money on this snake oil scheme?

[seanfingh]

I have two problems with this service (just found out about it today - last kid on the block to do so).

 

One was touched on earlier and that is how will you know that a book is exceptional in comparison to its peers - especially older books - without seeing all the books in that grade? Seems near impossible to do. I can just see a "Gold" sticker attached on a particular comic and a day later a "better" copy in grade comes through that raises the bar.

 

The other is that I'm not sure I would want to sell a book with a CVA sticker on it unless purchased in a collection because of all the people that don't like it. I haven't done a count but it seems that the majority of the posters don't like the service. I can see regular, knowledgeable CGC buyers/dealers on this forum avoiding a CVA stickered book just out of principal and spite.

 

ComicLink has embraced the CVA sticker but until a number of high auction houses do that - and I don't know how many have - then I don't know if the service will have a lot of demand.

 

As an aside, ComicLink has a lot of nice books for sale on a regular basis but it is one of the poorest functioning sites for the end user that I have ever seen - as a database .NET web developer, I cringe every time I go over there. But I digress....

 

Anyway, until this CVA service gets more accepted in the industry - like CGC did and subsequently professional pressing - then I will opt out until I see a definite advantage to the service.

 

Now, I think that what they are doing is NOT unethical at all AND since I am a comic dealer, I DO believe that if you can increase the selling price significantly by spending $35 for a sticker, then there is nothing wrong with that. Just don't know if I will ever do that until I get a ton of data.

 

Does anyone know if GPA mentions the sticker in their database entries? Too lazy to scour through a bunch of entries over there right now.

 

Plus, it's stupid.

[Jiminy_Cricket-migration]

I have two problems with this service (just found out about it today - last kid on the block to do so).

 

One was touched on earlier and that is how will you know that a book is exceptional in comparison to its peers - especially older books - without seeing all the books in that grade? Seems near impossible to do. I can just see a "Gold" sticker attached on a particular comic and a day later a "better" copy in grade comes through that raises the bar.

 

The other is that I'm not sure I would want to sell a book with a CVA sticker on it unless purchased in a collection because of all the people that don't like it. I haven't done a count but it seems that the majority of the posters don't like the service. I can see regular, knowledgeable CGC buyers/dealers on this forum avoiding a CVA stickered book just out of principal and spite.

 

ComicLink has embraced the CVA sticker but until a number of high auction houses do that - and I don't know how many have - then I don't know if the service will have a lot of demand.

 

As an aside, ComicLink has a lot of nice books for sale on a regular basis but it is one of the poorest functioning sites for the end user that I have ever seen - as a database .NET web developer, I cringe every time I go over there. But I digress....

 

Anyway, until this CVA service gets more accepted in the industry - like CGC did and subsequently professional pressing - then I will opt out until I see a definite advantage to the service.

 

Now, I think that what they are doing is NOT unethical at all AND since I am a comic dealer, I DO believe that if you can increase the selling price significantly by spending $35 for a sticker, then there is nothing wrong with that. Just don't know if I will ever do that until I get a ton of data.

 

Does anyone know if GPA mentions the sticker in their database entries? Too lazy to scour through a bunch of entries over there right now.

 

Plus, it's stupid.

 

[miraclemet]

I have to say one VERY annoying side effect of the CVA proliferation over on CLINK auctions is that when I want to do a narrowed search for pedigrees, all of the CVAed books show up in that subgroup too.

 

CVA is not the same a pedigree, so dont lump them together (I know the reason this happens is cause they list CVA information in the samefield as Pedigree information and "highest graded" notes, and then their query is just set to return the non-nil listings, but still its CLINK pushing CVA again).

 

 

[Wilson3d]

I hate this idea! I think it just seems like a money scheme. I can here them now - If we can get this to be standard - we'll be rich!

[WalkinWillie]

Oh, I am NOT going to spend money on this at all - at least not for the foreseeable future. I was just pointing out some holes in their pricing matrix.

 

It also doesn't say whether or not the pre-screen charge is credited if it passes so in my scenario above, my bill would be $40 instead of $44 if they credit the pre-screen passes. So then I'm out $10 - ouch!

 

I am extremely skeptical about this new service - but almost a year later, they are still in business. If they are in business two years from now, then whether I like it or not, it becomes part of this CGC and comic grading lexicon. That is probably when I will evaluate whether it is value added to my bottom line. Again, I don't think what they are doing is unethical - just don't think that at this time, it is value added.

 

Similar arguments were made about CGC back in the day - and there are a number of high end dealers that still do NOT like CGC. I've had dealers buy CGC books from me at cons and instantly crack them open.

 

The bottom line is that I cannot MAKE a comic buying population do anything - all I can do is react to what a comic buying population DOES.

 

If I had a $300 book that would sell for $550 with a CVA sticker down the road then as a dealer I would be pretty dumb business wise to not get that daggone sticker.

 

And no, it isn't all about the money as I am a comic book fan, not just a dealer. Nonetheless, my comic book dealing is helping fund my retirement so I have to take it seriously so if I can do something that is NOT UNETHICAL, then I should do it.

 

As an example, I truly believe that CGC'ing modern books is pretty much printing money and would never want to buy one as a collector. However even though I think slabbing modern books is silly, you can makes some substantial coin if you CGC the right books (ASM 300, Walking Dead #1, Wolverine Mini-Series, Watchmen, etc.). I remember when I got five 10.0 grades for some Lady Death leather edition books and people paid through the NOSE for those books. I was just shaking my head that such a thing could have such value to others. My integrity was intact as I did nothing unethical at all - all I did was take advantage of the marketplace as it exists.

 

So we'll see how this pans out - if it fails, the best they will get is my crocodile tears but if CVA succeeds then I will have to look into it regardless of what I feel about the service - just like modern book slabbing feels to me.

 

Anyway, my ...

[miraclemet]

[quote=WalkinWillie}

 

I am extremely skeptical about this new service - but almost a year later, they are still in business. If they are in business two years from now, then whether I like it or not, it becomes part of this CGC and comic grading lexicon.

 

The reason they are still in business is their overhead has to be next to nil.

 

They have to maintain a website (and not a very robust one at that) which is cheap as can be to host.

 

They already purchased a butt load of those pretty "security enabled" stickers, so that's a sunk cost at this point.

 

Their con presence is understated (only photo I saw was two guys at a single table with a banner) and heck is probably just a nice way to write off going to cons they would have gone to any way.

 

CLINK and some of the bigger online dealers agreed to advertise the CVA thing on thier sites, so its not costing them (out side of probably a discounted rate to provide CVA "service" to their customers/inventory.)

 

They'll be in business next year cause their overhead is low, not because of any marketplace adoption.

 

Here's when I'll believe in CVA as a market player:

 

When an ebay search returns more than 29 results for the "CVA" search.

And ZERO of those books are raw ones with CVA IT in the title.

[Ryan.]

I, for one, welcome our new CVA overlords. With the rise of CVA, speculators will slapfight each other for the Best of the Best stickered slabs, driving those particular books up to artificial 3D cover-level price points and I will happily purchase non-stickered versions at depressed prices. And then everyone will realize how dumb the whole thing is and it will all regress to the mean.

[WalkinWillie]

Great point Miraclemet - hadn't thought about their overhead being as low as it is. You probably are more correct in the "staying in business" aspect than I was.

 

It is something I will monitor and I think your eBay criteria is fairly accurate - I would go a little farther and say when it is over a 1000 books with the CVA sticker on a CGC eBay search without the "CVA IT" type deal then it might have the juice to be a player.

 

Again, I am pretty much in your corner and everyone else's that does not like this service - i.e. I don't like it either but at the end of the day I will be pragmatic about it just like I am pragmatic about slabbing modern books.

[mschmidt]

I am extremely skeptical about this new service - but almost a year later, they are still in business. If they are in business two years from now, then whether I like it or not, it becomes part of this CGC and comic grading lexicon. That is probably when I will evaluate whether it is value added to my bottom line. Again, I don't think what they are doing is unethical - just don't think that at this time, it is value added.

 

Similar arguments were made about CGC back in the day - and there are a number of high end dealers that still do NOT like CGC. I've had dealers buy CGC books from me at cons and instantly crack them open.

 

You can't compare CGC & CVA.

 

CGC provides an actual service - they grade the book, perform a resto check and send it back it to you in a nifty plastic holder.

 

CVA, on the other hand, simply looks at the front & back of the book through the slab and decides arbitrarily that "miswrap be damned, this book deserves a tiny silver sticker".

 

I'm sure neither of the two people listed on the CVA team quit their day-jobs in order to kickstart this useless venture, so whether they're still around in a couple of years or not means nothing when it comes to market acceptance.