Question for those investing in modern comics.

[SuperBird]

 

For moderns, I do think the OA is the better (I did not say "good") buy at the same price. A couple of weeks ago, a copy of MANHATTAN PROJECTS #1 sold for $256 on eBay. A very nice page from that issue could still be bought for $200 from the artist's rep. Clearly, the #1 was overvalued, but would the bidder have been as aggressive if he knew about the OA and really thought about how many MP #1 9.8s are out there? Don't know, but I know what choice I would have made.

 

I absolutely agree with that sentiment. Now if I could only convince Jeremy Bastian or Paul Pope to lower their prices to what their highest graded books went for, I'd be set.

[Nexus]

A more recent example would PETER PANZERFAUST #1 OA selling for less than PP #1 9.8. Even the cover! That's crazy.

 

Sounds crazy to OA collectors, but I think it's easy to overlook that it's easier to find a PP 9.8 than a specific piece of OA. Looking for OA requires knowledge, perserverence and a lot of the who-you-know element to it. That's probably intimidating and downright elusive to collectors - some people just want to come across what they want on Ebay and go for it. That doesn't seem to be the case for a lot of OA. You have to hunt for it.

 

Absolutely. The reason that some modern OA is still undervalued compared to their high-grade slab counterparts is because the hobby can be intimidating to newbies. Collecting high-grade is relatively easier, with assigned grades, price history, and easy access. However, this is a market inefficiency that will become less so as more collectors get the bug. I don't expect we'll see OA sell for less than their comic book counterparts, a la PP, for much longer.

[SuperBird]

If Bone #1 dropped to $50 bucks, would you still pay $10K for a page?

 

In a heartbeat.

 

Also, if you had a 10.0 Bone #1, would you trade it for a panel page?

 

That's a fair question, but seeing as how neither of those things exist on the open market (no Bone pages are in private hands, afaik) I'm not sure what I'd do. If it were still the only page for sale anywhere, I'd likely take the page over the 10.0. If he released all the pages, then I'd take the 10.0

 

 

[SuperBird]

is your (Ronin #6) book a 10, or even a 9.9, and is Ronin a highly desired/collectible book? You missed my point, if the book isnt valuable, and can be easily re-acquired, that's sidestepping my point. If you had a 10.0 ronin #1, would you trade it for a panel page?

 

It's a 9.8, but if it were a 10 I would still do it. The 9.8 is a $300 book. Unslabbed copies are worthless.

 

Ronin pages are at least 10K for any random page, I would think.

[Garf]

I hereby offer my highest graded copy of Ronin #6 on the census for any page of Ronin OA. Even if it's a "random pointless pages with some dialogue and a few panels."

 

You'll have to settle for a page from #1, because that's the only issue that was broken up for sale.

 

But, of course, your point is correct-- not EVERY comic in highest grade will be worth more than the OA. For those that are, though, the collector should be aware of his choices.

 

Walking Dead is just a really odd exception here. I can't think of any other book that has such an over-inflated value. The only other recent #1's I can think of that get $1K+; Bone #1, Albedo #2... I'd take OA from those over a #1.

 

Hell, I'd pay $10k for a page from Bone #1.

 

For moderns, I do think the OA is the better (I did not say "good") buy at the same price. A couple of weeks ago, a copy of MANHATTAN PROJECTS #1 sold for $256 on eBay. A very nice page from that issue could still be bought for $200 from the artist's rep. Clearly, the #1 was overvalued, but would the bidder have been as aggressive if he knew about the OA and really thought about how many MP #1 9.8s are out there? Don't know, but I know what choice I would have made.

 

Although TWD has dragged some people kicking and screaming into the light that is OA I still don't think it is something that is recognised by the masses when it comes to comics in general (e.g. TWD has featured full page ads for Splash Page). Just not as many people searching for it.

[conditionfreak]

Interesting read, all the way though.

 

I find it facinating that most can not avoid the "buy what you like and you will never be disappointed", kind of statements.

 

Even if the original premise starts out as requesting just a discussion on investing in comic books, without the "buy what you like routine statements". It always ends up with "buy what you like".

 

I'm here to tell y'all. There are people putting investment money in comic books and original art, that could care less about comic books, or at best. Have a very small interest in them, and could take them or leave them. Except for the potential future value.

 

Food for thought.

[Hekla]

A more recent example would PETER PANZERFAUST #1 OA selling for less than PP #1 9.8. Even the cover! That's crazy.

 

Sounds crazy to OA collectors, but I think it's easy to overlook that it's easier to find a PP 9.8 than a specific piece of OA. Looking for OA requires knowledge, perserverence and a lot of the who-you-know element to it. That's probably intimidating and downright elusive to collectors - some people just want to come across what they want on Ebay and go for it. That doesn't seem to be the case for a lot of OA. You have to hunt for it.

 

Absolutely. The reason that some modern OA is still undervalued compared to their high-grade slab counterparts is because the hobby can be intimidating to newbies. Collecting high-grade is relatively easier, with assigned grades, price history, and easy access. However, this is a market inefficiency that will become less so as more collectors get the bug. I don't expect we'll see OA sell for less than their comic book counterparts, a la PP, for much longer.

 

One reason for price differences is that Modern OA is a different animal than - for example - BA art in that there are different formats and there could be multiple copies of a page. One needs to ask if they are buying inks on bluelines, inks on pencil, is there a pencil page AND a seperate ink page, etc.

 

I think PP OA is inks on blue lines.

 

Any OA collector - seasoned or new - needs to ask as many questions as possible to find the artists process (and thus, true rarity)

 

[CBT]

I guess, for me, I don't really believe in the 9.9 grade. But that's a philosophical difference with regards to grading at that level, which I find to be totally subjective hair-splitting. For a modern book with a print run in the thousands, or even tens of thousands (such as WD), there are potentially A LOT of 9.9s. No matter what the census says at any given time, we don't really know how many 9.9s there are out there (unless every copy in existence gets graded). Meanwhile, there will only ever be 20 (or whatever) pages of OA for that issue.

 

I agree 100% about the grades, and the lack of true rarity. However, what exists, exists, and there are definitely less 9.9s then pages currently on the census. Also, there are hundreds of thousands of times more people who collect comic books, then collect comic book art. They ARE different hobbies, though one comes out of the other.

 

I'm not saying all collectors or the hobby will ever value OA more than 9.9s. But I do think that collectors who buy 9.9s are looking for truly unique one-of-a-kind collectibles. Anyone spending that kind of money, to me, has probably just not discovered OA yet because it doesn't get any more unique than OA.

 

 

I think people who will pay 10K for a 9.9 of WD #1 are the same as people who would buy some random panel page of OA from it for thousands. Both are chasing money, they may love what they own, but in those big leagues, ultimately, money is the deciding factor. No one is spending thousands on a panel page from WD #1, and thinking "i dont mind if this is worthless someday".

 

 

COPPER: Some guy paid $12.5K for a NEW MUTANTS #98 9.9. The *cover* sold for $6K not that long before that. At the time, there was just one 9.9 on the census. How many are there now? However many, there will still probably be more. I'd say OA pages from NM #98 are now better buys than the 9.9, especially as they still likely cost less.

 

I think this example, and many of the examples you give, are excellent example of people over paying. But, I dont think the OA needs to rise to those levels, the books need to fall, and fall far. If someone wants to pay grands for Liefeld OA from new mutants 98, can you honestly tell me that's anything other than a chase for dollars? It's a bubble as much as that 9.9 price.

 

 

SILVER: For a while, it was not uncommon to see 9.8s for NON-KEYS sell for more than what an OA page would sell for from the corresponding issue. This includes Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko. That makes no sense to me.

 

GOLD: In 2010, an ACTION #1 8.0 sold for $1M. A month later, an 8.5 sold for $1.5M. The difference between the two, $500K, was more than what any single piece of American OA had sold for at that time. And what did this subjective .5 difference signify? A spine tick? A rounded corner? The value disparity between graded comics and OA was especially stark to me here.

 

It's like i said before, OA WAS (and should be) a niche thing. The size of the market will always be small, and the majority of the people playing in it, think its a gold mine for the future. I think it will be a killing field.

 

To me, the McFarlane cover is a prime example of insanity. Like the big Action #1 sales prior to the first big comics bubble, it makes everyone get out there and start chasing. So then, every page, every book, suddenly becomes a valid collectible worth money.

 

Obviously everyone has their own opinions, I just feel like people who think OA can't lose, are going to be in shock and awe when/if another comic bubble bursts and their entire market implodes.

 

All that being said, you do make some very strong points, and I think as with all markets, the REAL high quality stuff is worth buying, and will be the long term winner. But, if a panel page of WD #1 cost the same as a 9.9, i'd buy the 9.9, and I bet 30 years from now, it would be worth a lot more. The cover though, would always be higher.

[Nexus]

I'm here to tell y'all. There are people putting investment money in comic books and original art, that could care less about comic books, or at best. Have a very small interest in them, and could take them or leave them. Except for the potential future value.

 

I don't think anyone is disputing that. There will always be outright speculation in this hobby. The whole "buy what you like" credo is to remind collectors to focus on what they like, first. It certainly won't prevent anyone who's in this for the $$$ only to think or act differently.

[Nexus]

Both are chasing money, they may love what they own, but in those big leagues, ultimately, money is the deciding factor. No one is spending thousands on a panel page from WD #1, and thinking "i dont mind if this is worthless someday".

 

As surprising as this may sound, that's a misconception (and I find that surprising myself, even as an OA collector). I know many of the collectors who have bought some of the high-dollar, even record-setting, OA pieces. NONE of them bought those pieces (you name it, DKR splash, McSpidey #1, et al) with investment in mind. Of course, none of them hope to lose any money, but they didn't buy them hoping to make any, either. They simply wanted it. Money was not the deciding factor. Their desire to own the piece was.

 

It's like i said before, OA WAS (and should be) a niche thing. The size of the market will always be small, and the majority of the people playing in it, think its a gold mine for the future. I think it will be a killing field.

 

To me, the McFarlane cover is a prime example of insanity. Like the big Action #1 sales prior to the first big comics bubble, it makes everyone get out there and start chasing. So then, every page, every book, suddenly becomes a valid collectible worth money.

 

Just to be clear (especially to speculators), I've never suggested that OA is a "gold mine". There are bubble dynamics in evidence, for both comics and OA. The question is, where in the cycle are we? I have some theories, but that's all they are. As always, time will tell.

 

[jjeanius]

A more recent example would PETER PANZERFAUST #1 OA selling for less than PP #1 9.8. Even the cover! That's crazy.

 

Sounds crazy to OA collectors, but I think it's easy to overlook that it's easier to find a PP 9.8 than a specific piece of OA. Looking for OA requires knowledge, perserverence and a lot of the who-you-know element to it. That's probably intimidating and downright elusive to collectors - some people just want to come across what they want on Ebay and go for it. That doesn't seem to be the case for a lot of OA. You have to hunt for it.

 

Absolutely. The reason that some modern OA is still undervalued compared to their high-grade slab counterparts is because the hobby can be intimidating to newbies. Collecting high-grade is relatively easier, with assigned grades, price history, and easy access. However, this is a market inefficiency that will become less so as more collectors get the bug. I don't expect we'll see OA sell for less than their comic book counterparts, a la PP, for much longer.

 

One reason for price differences is that Modern OA is a different animal than - for example - BA art in that there are different formats and there could be multiple copies of a page. One needs to ask if they are buying inks on bluelines, inks on pencil, is there a pencil page AND a seperate ink page, etc.

 

I think PP OA is inks on blue lines.

 

Any OA collector - seasoned or new - needs to ask as many questions as possible to find the artists process (and thus, true rarity)

 

Modern OA is worth less than Bronze OA because it hasn't had a chance to mature yet. Period.

 

And...while the existence of two originals will certainly lower the value/demand to some extent (in the case where the pencils are on a separate board from the inks), this isn't quite the same as what you are saying about PP art. Tyler does both inks and pencils. There is only one original page. He might take a pencil layout and blow it up on a lightbox, or blow it up and print it and ink it, but it is still unique, and the only original art for that page, and 100% Tyler. The possible existence of a pencil layout won't have any effect on that value.

 

On another note, I agree with essentially everything that Felix has said. I would also add, though, that there are multiple examples of OA that continues to rise in value long after a series has come to an end. So...while the books themselves might decrease in value, there is still a very good chance that the OA itself will continue to increase in value if the book remains loved. Easy examples would be Sandman, Preacher, Y the Last Man, Watchmen, Dark Knight Returns, V for Vendetta, etc, etc. What is a run of Watchmen worth? Not much. Pages? Thousands of dollars EACH. What do all of these series have in common? All have continued to be perennial bestsellers in TPB format, so they are "gone but not forgotten".

 

I would also add that it is INSANE to me that a CGC 9.8 of a book that is less than a year old might be worth more than a page of original art from that same issue. Even with a book like PP with a very small print run...while the book is rare, the fact of the matter is that there are already 63 copies that have been graded a CGC 9.8, and that number is sure to increase. On the other hand, there are only 22 interior pages, each one of them different and unique...and this will never change.

[fastballspecial]

Why are all these threads popping up? These "new investors" are too lazy to do their own leg work and want their hands held on what to buy or how much to buy. Just take your money else where and don't gamble on things you don't know about.

 

Bingo

 

The truth hurts sometimes.