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Signed Pedigree comics make baby cry.

Started by miraclemet,

409 posts in this topic

Transplant

Transplant

Posted
Posted
:gossip: Gene Colan's contributed more to the history of comic books than Edgar Church ever did.

That's a given and has absolutely nothing to do with my reason for disliking it.

 

Click for a REALLY bad analogy.

 

It could be argued that Guggenheim did more for abstract art history with collecting and the creation of museums than an artist like Mark Rothko. Does that make it any more acceptable that Solomon Guggenheim (were he still alive) decided to scribble on one of Rothko's pieces?

 

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DeliBebek

DeliBebek

Posted
Posted
Seeing Church books, especially HG ones, signed makes me vomit a little in my mouth.

 

On the upside there were over 20,000 books in the Church collection.

 

Imagine if it was one of the tiny peds like Allentown or Chicago..

 

heck if I saw an Okajima in SS I dont know what would happen ... :censored::frustrated:

 

 

That's the thing isn't it....Pedigrees used to MEAN something. There were only a few. Now? There are dozens, and they are given the name to help market and sell them.

 

ALLENTOWN

 

AURORA

 

BETHLEHEM

 

BILLY WRIGHT

 

BIG APPLE

 

CAPE COD

 

CARSON CITY

 

CENTRAL VALLEY

 

CHICAGO

 

CHINATOWN

 

CIRCLE 8

 

COOKEVILLE

 

COSMIC AEROPLANE

 

CRIPPEN D

 

CROWLEY

 

CURATOR

 

DENVER

 

DETROIT TROLLEY

 

DIAMOND RUN

 

DON AND MAGGIE THOMPSON

 

DON ROSA

 

EDGAR CHURCH/MILE HIGH

 

ELDON

 

EDENWALD

 

GAINES

 

GREEN RIVER

 

HAROLD CURTIS

 

HAWKEYE

 

HENSCHEL

 

KANSAS CITY

 

LARSON

 

LLOYD JACQUET

 

LOST VALLEY

 

MASS

 

MOHAWK VALLEY

 

NAPA VALLEY

 

NEW HAMPSHIRE

 

NORTHERN CAL

 

NORTHFORD

 

NORTHLAND

 

NOVA SCOTIA

 

OAKLAND

 

OHIO

 

OKAJIMA

 

PACIFIC COAST

 

PALO ALTO

 

PENNSYLVANIA

 

RECIL MACON

 

RIVER CITY

 

ROCKFORD

 

ROCKY MOUNTAIN

 

SAN FRANCISCO

 

SAVANNAH

 

SELKIRK

 

SHERWOOD

 

SPOKANE

 

SUSCHA NEWS

 

TOLEDO

 

TWILIGHT

 

TWIN CITIES

 

VAN BUREN

 

VANCOUVER

 

WESTERN PENN

 

WILLIAMSPORT

 

WHITE MOUNTAIN

 

WINDY CITY

 

WINNEPEG

Is this the Pedigree book? At least the contents page? I feel teased now.
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comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted
:gossip: Gene Colan's contributed more to the history of comic books than Edgar Church ever did.

That's a given and has absolutely nothing to do with my reason for disliking it.

 

 

But, in the subtext, it really does have everything to do with it.

 

You are placing an importance, a significance, an untouchable preeminence on the fact that it was Edgar Church's book over an above it bearing the signature of an absolute legend of comics.

 

The source of your nausea seems to come from that this was Church's book, from his collection, no?

 

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comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted
Seeing Church books, especially HG ones, signed makes me vomit a little in my mouth.

 

On the upside there were over 20,000 books in the Church collection.

 

Imagine if it was one of the tiny peds like Allentown or Chicago..

 

heck if I saw an Okajima in SS I dont know what would happen ... :censored::frustrated:

 

 

That's the thing isn't it....Pedigrees used to MEAN something. There were only a few. Now? There are dozens, and they are given the name to help market and sell them.

 

ALLENTOWN

 

AURORA

 

BETHLEHEM

 

BILLY WRIGHT

 

BIG APPLE

 

CAPE COD

 

CARSON CITY

 

CENTRAL VALLEY

 

CHICAGO

 

CHINATOWN

 

CIRCLE 8

 

COOKEVILLE

 

COSMIC AEROPLANE

 

CRIPPEN D

 

CROWLEY

 

CURATOR

 

DENVER

 

DETROIT TROLLEY

 

DIAMOND RUN

 

DON AND MAGGIE THOMPSON

 

DON ROSA

 

EDGAR CHURCH/MILE HIGH

 

ELDON

 

EDENWALD

 

GAINES

 

GREEN RIVER

 

HAROLD CURTIS

 

HAWKEYE

 

HENSCHEL

 

KANSAS CITY

 

LARSON

 

LLOYD JACQUET

 

LOST VALLEY

 

MASS

 

MOHAWK VALLEY

 

NAPA VALLEY

 

NEW HAMPSHIRE

 

NORTHERN CAL

 

NORTHFORD

 

NORTHLAND

 

NOVA SCOTIA

 

OAKLAND

 

OHIO

 

OKAJIMA

 

PACIFIC COAST

 

PALO ALTO

 

PENNSYLVANIA

 

RECIL MACON

 

RIVER CITY

 

ROCKFORD

 

ROCKY MOUNTAIN

 

SAN FRANCISCO

 

SAVANNAH

 

SELKIRK

 

SHERWOOD

 

SPOKANE

 

SUSCHA NEWS

 

TOLEDO

 

TWILIGHT

 

TWIN CITIES

 

VAN BUREN

 

VANCOUVER

 

WESTERN PENN

 

WILLIAMSPORT

 

WHITE MOUNTAIN

 

WINDY CITY

 

WINNEPEG

Is this the Pedigree book? At least the contents page? I feel teased now.

 

 

I wish. lol I wonder if I will ever see that book.

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cheetah

cheetah

Posted
Posted
Seeing Church books, especially HG ones, signed makes me vomit a little in my mouth.

 

On the upside there were over 20,000 books in the Church collection.

 

Imagine if it was one of the tiny peds like Allentown or Chicago..

 

heck if I saw an Okajima in SS I dont know what would happen ... :censored::frustrated:

 

 

That's the thing isn't it....Pedigrees used to MEAN something. There were only a few. Now? There are dozens, and they are given the name to help market and sell them.

 

ALLENTOWN

 

AURORA

 

BETHLEHEM

 

BILLY WRIGHT

 

BIG APPLE

 

CAPE COD

 

CARSON CITY

 

CENTRAL VALLEY

 

CHICAGO

 

CHINATOWN

 

CIRCLE 8

 

COOKEVILLE

 

COSMIC AEROPLANE

 

CRIPPEN D

 

CROWLEY

 

CURATOR

 

DENVER

 

DETROIT TROLLEY

 

DIAMOND RUN

 

DON AND MAGGIE THOMPSON

 

DON ROSA

 

EDGAR CHURCH/MILE HIGH

 

ELDON

 

EDENWALD

 

GAINES

 

GREEN RIVER

 

HAROLD CURTIS

 

HAWKEYE

 

HENSCHEL

 

KANSAS CITY

 

LARSON

 

LLOYD JACQUET

 

LOST VALLEY

 

MASS

 

MOHAWK VALLEY

 

NAPA VALLEY

 

NEW HAMPSHIRE

 

NORTHERN CAL

 

NORTHFORD

 

NORTHLAND

 

NOVA SCOTIA

 

OAKLAND

 

OHIO

 

OKAJIMA

 

PACIFIC COAST

 

PALO ALTO

 

PENNSYLVANIA

 

RECIL MACON

 

RIVER CITY

 

ROCKFORD

 

ROCKY MOUNTAIN

 

SAN FRANCISCO

 

SAVANNAH

 

SELKIRK

 

SHERWOOD

 

SPOKANE

 

SUSCHA NEWS

 

TOLEDO

 

TWILIGHT

 

TWIN CITIES

 

VAN BUREN

 

VANCOUVER

 

WESTERN PENN

 

WILLIAMSPORT

 

WHITE MOUNTAIN

 

WINDY CITY

 

WINNEPEG

 

 

They.

Just.

Keep.

Coming.

 

And as they do, they dilute the power and importance of pedigree designations overall.

 

The books are still great, but the fact that they come from a certain collection becomes less and less important, special, and rare.

 

I see this as hyperbole. A lot of what you listed are collections of. Pre but haven't risen to the level of 'official' pedigree. We went through a few years of some fairly remarkable finds that warranted pedigree status but there hasn't been much of late except fors Egg's Haight-Asbury find. Marginal pedigrees can be argued, like Suscha News and Billy Wright, but for the most part, pedigrees that have been deemed 'official' by CGC are solid.

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Ares

Ares

Posted
Posted

I never understood the fascination of Pedigrees. They are just books owned by one person versus some books owned by two or more people.

 

I dont see the difference between a 9.8 pedigree and a 9.8 Regular book. both are 9.8.

 

 

If I had and insane amount of stupid money I'd buy pedigree books, break em out of slab and resumbit them to get non pedigree status.. a 9.8 is a 9.8

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DeliBebek

DeliBebek

Posted
Posted
I never understood the fascination of Pedigrees. They are just books owned by one person versus some books owned by two or more people.

 

I dont see the difference between a 9.8 pedigree and a 9.8 Regular book. both are 9.8.

 

If I had and insane amount of stupid money I'd buy pedigree books, break em out of slab and resubmit them to get non pedigree status.. a 9.8 is a 9.8

I'm not enamored with pedigrees, but I wouldn't make any effort to confound those who collect them.

 

Something like the Gaines file copies are a different story altogether, as the collection of a preeminent purveyor of the form. If you had any of those signed by Gaines, that would be exceptional. Never a possibility, of course.

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comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted
Seeing Church books, especially HG ones, signed makes me vomit a little in my mouth.

 

On the upside there were over 20,000 books in the Church collection.

 

Imagine if it was one of the tiny peds like Allentown or Chicago..

 

heck if I saw an Okajima in SS I dont know what would happen ... :censored::frustrated:

 

 

That's the thing isn't it....Pedigrees used to MEAN something. There were only a few. Now? There are dozens, and they are given the name to help market and sell them.

 

ALLENTOWN

 

AURORA

 

BETHLEHEM

 

BILLY WRIGHT

 

BIG APPLE

 

CAPE COD

 

CARSON CITY

 

CENTRAL VALLEY

 

CHICAGO

 

CHINATOWN

 

CIRCLE 8

 

COOKEVILLE

 

COSMIC AEROPLANE

 

CRIPPEN D

 

CROWLEY

 

CURATOR

 

DENVER

 

DETROIT TROLLEY

 

DIAMOND RUN

 

DON AND MAGGIE THOMPSON

 

DON ROSA

 

EDGAR CHURCH/MILE HIGH

 

ELDON

 

EDENWALD

 

GAINES

 

GREEN RIVER

 

HAROLD CURTIS

 

HAWKEYE

 

HENSCHEL

 

KANSAS CITY

 

LARSON

 

LLOYD JACQUET

 

LOST VALLEY

 

MASS

 

MOHAWK VALLEY

 

NAPA VALLEY

 

NEW HAMPSHIRE

 

NORTHERN CAL

 

NORTHFORD

 

NORTHLAND

 

NOVA SCOTIA

 

OAKLAND

 

OHIO

 

OKAJIMA

 

PACIFIC COAST

 

PALO ALTO

 

PENNSYLVANIA

 

RECIL MACON

 

RIVER CITY

 

ROCKFORD

 

ROCKY MOUNTAIN

 

SAN FRANCISCO

 

SAVANNAH

 

SELKIRK

 

SHERWOOD

 

SPOKANE

 

SUSCHA NEWS

 

TOLEDO

 

TWILIGHT

 

TWIN CITIES

 

VAN BUREN

 

VANCOUVER

 

WESTERN PENN

 

WILLIAMSPORT

 

WHITE MOUNTAIN

 

WINDY CITY

 

WINNEPEG

 

 

They.

Just.

Keep.

Coming.

 

And as they do, they dilute the power and importance of pedigree designations overall.

 

The books are still great, but the fact that they come from a certain collection becomes less and less important, special, and rare.

 

I see this as hyperbole. A lot of what you listed are collections of. Pre but haven't risen to the level of 'official' pedigree. We went through a few years of some fairly remarkable finds that warranted pedigree status but there hasn't been much of late except fors Egg's Haight-Asbury find. Marginal pedigrees can be argued, like Suscha News and Billy Wright, but for the most part, pedigrees that have been deemed 'official' by CGC are solid.

 

There are a small handful that are "collections of", Rosa, Thompson, Jacquet on the list, the rest are peds. That's not hyperbole...these are actual lists of peds.

 

Maybe it's because I remember the a time before the last 10-12 years when peds carried a much more rare aura than they have since.

 

As I said, they are GREAT books, but the more something expands the less rare and the less mystique it carries.

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cheetah

cheetah

Posted
Posted
I never understood the fascination of Pedigrees. They are just books owned by one person versus some books owned by two or more people.

 

I dont see the difference between a 9.8 pedigree and a 9.8 Regular book. both are 9.8.

 

 

If I had and insane amount of stupid money I'd buy pedigree books, break em out of slab and resumbit them to get non pedigree status.. a 9.8 is a 9.8

 

It depends a lot on the pedigree. An Edgar Curch book is usually so far superior to the next best copy available that it is easy to see why people pay more. A Davis Crippen copy from his garage won't pull anything more than any other similarly graded copy. Sometimes even less. For Bronze Age titles, it can often be a desire to differentiate your collection from the masses.

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Ogami

Ogami

Posted
Posted
:gossip: Gene Colan's contributed more to the history of comic books than Edgar Church ever did.

That's a given and has absolutely nothing to do with my reason for disliking it.

 

Click for a REALLY bad analogy.

 

It could be argued that Guggenheim did more for abstract art history with collecting and the creation of museums than an artist like Mark Rothko. Does that make it any more acceptable that Solomon Guggenheim (were he still alive) decided to scribble on one of Rothko's pieces?

 

You are right.

 

 

 

That is a really bad analogy.

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lscomics

lscomics

Posted
Posted
Oh look! Another thread with the same people whining about what people chose to do with their property. Just because you don't approve doesn't mean it's wrong to submit a high grade book for SS.

 

Its not wrong inasmuch that its illegal or immoral.

 

But I think it really does an injustice to have an important book such as a pedigree or a rare high grade signed. Their wont be anymore printed and in the interest of conserving the history I think its prudent to consider the damage done.

 

A high grade modern? sign away. But high grade gold, silver or bronze....an owner should really think hard before making a decision to have it signed. Preservation in current state is important in all sorts of collectibles...and as the owner of such a piece you become a de facto steward.

 

Ultimately, the owner can do what they want but it would be nice if each would err on the side of caution in this regard for the sake of the books and the hobby as a whole.

 

This is only true if you believe that having the creators sign their work is "damage." And as has been shown again and again and again, high grade Silver and Bronze is plentiful.

I've said it before and I'll repeat it now. This is the only :censored: hobby where it's considered "damaging" a book to have it signed by the writer/artist. If you don't like signed books then don't have them signed or buy ones that are. It's that simple. Unless you're the one who was willing to shell out the money for one of your precious pedigree books because it means sooooo much to you then shut up about what happens to them when someone else buys it and subs it for SS. Clearly it didn't mean that much to you if you weren't willing to spend the money to own it.
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lscomics

lscomics

Posted
Posted
Oh look! Another thread with the same people whining about what people chose to do with their property. Just because you don't approve doesn't mean it's wrong to submit a high grade book for SS.

 

thus why I said:

 

Now a private collector wanting to add a sig to a pedigree book is tough enough to swallow (but its their book so they can do what they want, I guess) but when its an obvious attempt at a money grab from a dealer it just feels a bit like a desecration...

 

But you know, feel free to just pick and choose which parts to read. (thumbs u

 

Do you see "high grade book" and "pedigree book" as interchangeable terms (since you changed them)?

 

[actual question, some people think so little of pedigrees that they dont value them any greater than non-pedigree books of the same grade, thus Im curious if you fall into that camp]

 

With the rate at which pedigree status is handed out, yeah... anymore pedigree and high grade are interchangeable.
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Transplant

Transplant

Posted
Posted
:gossip: Gene Colan's contributed more to the history of comic books than Edgar Church ever did.

That's a given and has absolutely nothing to do with my reason for disliking it.

 

 

But, in the subtext, it really does have everything to do with it.

 

You are placing an importance, a significance, an untouchable preeminence on the fact that it was Edgar Church's book over an above it bearing the signature of an absolute legend of comics.

 

The source of your nausea seems to come from that this was Church's book, from his collection, no?

I would argue that, in a historical context, Church was more important to THAT copy of that book than Gene Colan.
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Transplant

Transplant

Posted
Posted
:gossip: Gene Colan's contributed more to the history of comic books than Edgar Church ever did.

That's a given and has absolutely nothing to do with my reason for disliking it.

 

Click for a REALLY bad analogy.

 

It could be argued that Guggenheim did more for abstract art history with collecting and the creation of museums than an artist like Mark Rothko. Does that make it any more acceptable that Solomon Guggenheim (were he still alive) decided to scribble on one of Rothko's pieces?

 

You are right.

 

 

 

That is a really bad analogy.

:acclaim:
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miraclemet

miraclemet

Posted
  • Author
Posted
I've said it before and I'll repeat it now. This is the only :censored: hobby where it's considered "damaging" a book to have it signed by the writer/artist. If you don't like signed books then don't have them signed or buy ones that are. It's that simple. Unless you're the one who was willing to shell out the money for one of your precious pedigree books because it means sooooo much to you then shut up about what happens to them when someone else buys it and subs it for SS. Clearly it didn't mean that much to you if you weren't willing to spend the money to own it.

 

OK everyone LSComics has determined that opinions and discussions are not to be had on this message board, lets all go home.

 

Someone get the lights.

 

 

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Logan510

Logan510

Posted
Posted
Oh look! Another thread with the same people whining about what people chose to do with their property. Just because you don't approve doesn't mean it's wrong to submit a high grade book for SS.

 

Oh look, the same person whining about other people discussing a topic. Just because you think it's fine doesn't make it right. Permanently altering a book you plan on keeping in your possession for 4 seconds before throwing it on eBay for a cash grab sounds crazy to me. Then again, I don't make a living doing comic cash grabs so what do I know (shrug)

 

You spend enough that you help support the extravagant lifestyles of cash grab artists :baiting:

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Rip

Rip

Posted
Posted

Church contributed to comics in a far different manner than Colan.

 

As a valued commodity with a dollar value attached, one could argue Church far more so than the Gene Colan autograph.

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COI

COI

Posted
Posted
Not a pedigree, but this book sickens me. Check out the census numbers.

 

cgc_tta_35_92_ss_4003.jpg

 

Whoa.

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COI

COI

Posted
Posted
Oh look! Another thread with the same people whining about what people chose to do with their property. Just because you don't approve doesn't mean it's wrong to submit a high grade book for SS.

 

Oh look! Another person trying to tell what is and is not acceptable conversation on the boards.

 

:baiting:

 

Oh look! Another 7 year-old cashew under my couch cushion.

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