Signed Pedigree comics make baby cry.

[Rip]

Will do. (thumbs u

I do get foreign copies of books.

[goldust40]

I don't understand this; "They're the only ones there are and only ones there will ever be."

 

If someone got a uber rare golden age book signed that was mid grade, say a Double Action 2, (or harder) I wouldn't feel so great about it.

 

With a lot of effort you can track down other copies of both books but what makes them truly unique is the signatures.

 

Signatures confer uniqueness? That really is giving far too much weight to a thick, often illegible squiggle that takes a second and a half to write.

 

 

Those with Salinger squiggle on a copy of Catcher in the Rye, or an Alan Moore on a high grade Taboo #2, or Val Kilmer on Rawhide Kid #46 might disagree.

 

Maybe the Salinger scribble might qualify. The rest is generalization.

 

To different people they confer different things. To you it may not, to others it may.

 

Gosh.

 

It's a false analogy, at least as far as Salinger is concerned, because:-

 

1) His signatures are genuinely scarce and were not done for marketing purposes.

 

2) They would've been on one of the interior pages.

 

Salinger signatures on a Catcher might be rare but so is Moore on a Taboo #2...I know of 2, and Kilmer on a Rawhide #46..I know of 1.

 

It's not a false analogy. You said that "Signatures confer uniqueness? That really is giving far too much weight to a thick, often illegible squiggle that takes a second and a half to write." I don't think that's accurate and the width and breadth of the autograph seeking world would find that statement incorrect given the demand for signatures that are nothing but a squiggle.

 

Again, Salinger is gone and Moore and Kilmer are not. And we are talking about the width and breadth of the pedigree-seeking comic-collecting world, not the autograph one.

 

The "squiggle" in question is only in reference to comic books and the necessity to place the squiggle on the cover for commercial purposes only. With books, the author always writes his signature on an interior page.

 

Remove the signature series, and the need to have the signature on the cover of a comic would decrease or disappear as the desire to maintain aesthetic quality would override this.

 

Once again - pedigrees, provenance and historical documentation confer uniqueness. Squiggles on covers of comic books, with certain exceptions, do not.

[cheetah]

I think it helps to differentiate between pedigrees from different ages. There are a lot more pedigrees from the GA than there are from the SA or BA. Some of the GA pedigrees come with a well-defined history of provinience. For some folks, me included, the documented history of the collection adds to its interest and collectibility. Recoil Macon books are cool because we know who he was, where he lived, and that he had OCD when it came to filling out coupons on his books. Eldon books are cool because we aren't as sure who Eldon was but he always put his first name on a book. And they both collected some very cool books. Edgar Church's books have a well-documented history and provide a quality of book that is seldom rivaled.

 

Are these books worth more than a non-pedigreed copy? For Edgar's books, I think the answer is almost always yes. For Eldon's, maybe a little just for curiosity's sake.

 

For the more recent SA and BA titles, the history seems less important than the label. Where did the Western Penn collection originate? Was Suscha News important because of the quality of the collection or just because Metro found it? Savannah and Heritage?

 

IMO, it all comes down to the particular book, it's quality, appeal, and other intangibles. Like I said, I would always pay a premium for an Edgar Church book and a few other peds. I wouldn't pay a premium for a lot of others.

 

If there is a tangible history connected to the book in question - a history that enhances our understanding of the hobby and its original fans, not to mention the wonder of finding such uniquely preserved pop cultural artefacts with documented provenance, then it's probably for the best that you don't mess with them.

 

But of course if they're your books, and you wish to make them even more unique, then squiggle away with a nice fat sharpie.

 

FWIW, I think I could always find a non-pedigreed copy to get signed in lieu of a pedigree because I do believe I'm only holding the book before passing it on. For the vast bulk of GA books, it is a moot point since so few of the artists are still alive.

[miraclemet]

[...because I do believe I'm only holding the book before passing it on.

 

my thinking exactly.

[Tsimanga]

All Signature series books are nothing but scribble, defacing the book itself.

 

If you want an autograph, just use a reprint or a photograph. 90% of SS seekers are only in it for the money they think it will bring. IMHO.

[TeddieMercede]

personally i see no reason why there are pedigrees. I really don't care if an old man stored three boxes for 30 years and lived on walnut street.

 

Because Money.

 

That's not it, at least for the collections truly worthy of being deemed pedigrees.

 

For those like me who collect high grade SA comics, there are typically dozens of examples of each issue. What makes one of them stand out from the rest is the knowledge that it came from a particular collection that was exceptional for the depth and breadth of its material and the quality of its preservation.

 

It's cool to own comics that can be traced back to the original collection they came from, and especially to own bunches of comics from the same pedigree collection.

 

The quality of books from certain pedigrees, which are the ones that garner the largest premiums, have certain attributes to them that make them stick out from the pack and any other 9.4. Sure the pedigree history is fun but if you're a high grade collector and seek specific characteristics in books like color strike or spine structure you'll find books from specific pedigrees will stand out.

 

For the SA If you put a Pacific Coast next to most every other equivalent book in that grade you'll see a difference. Same with the color qualities of books from the Curator and Western Penn collections.

[goldust40]

[...because I do believe I'm only holding the book before passing it on.

 

my thinking exactly.

 

We are but custodians.

[miraclemet]

All Signature series books are nothing but scribble, defacing the book itself.

 

If you want an autograph, just use a reprint or a photograph. 90% of SS seekers are only in it for the money they think it will bring. IMHO.

 

count me as a 10%er

 

 

[Mushie]

It seems like comics are the only books where an authentic signature causes an argument as to whether or not the book is "better." Any other type of book with an authentic signature, even rare books by classic authors, increase in value and desirability.

 

I posted this in another thread a while ago and still think the same way. What's even better about CGC SS is the iron clad lock on authenticity. Buying a book signed by Charles Dickens, for example, sells for more than an unsigned copy...yet the authenticity of the signature isn't near as solid as what it is with CGC SS. Books are meant to be signed by the authors.

[lscomics]

Remove the signature series, and the need to have the signature on the cover of a comic would decrease or disappear as the desire to maintain aesthetic quality would override this.

I'll remember this and how wrong you are every time I'm flipping through the hundreds of raw books I have signed on the cover.

 

All Signature series books are nothing but scribble, defacing the book itself.

 

If you want an autograph, just use a reprint or a photograph. 90% of SS seekers are only in it for the money they think it will bring. IMHO.

The same could be said about the pedigree crowd. They only the books and sit on them for a while with the intention of flipping them. That's why they have the outlook of "I'm only 'holding it' until the next person comes along/it gets passed down etc. Next time you get hungry just eat a picture of a cheeseburger, it's the same as the real thing isn't it?

[goldust40]

Remove the signature series, and the need to have the signature on the cover of a comic would decrease or disappear as the desire to maintain aesthetic quality would override this.

I'll remember this and how wrong you are every time I'm flipping through the hundreds of raw books I have signed on the cover.

 

Again, I am making a generalization. Having collected long, long, long before the arrival of CGC, it was far more common in those antideluvian days not to have a large black squiggle on the cover, but rather a neat cursive pen or pencil sig on the splash page. Usually below the indicia.

 

You may well be one of the exceptions to the rule. No doubt you'll reply by stating that such practice is very common and has been for decades, but prior to CGC I rarely if ever saw sigs on covers. And I've been collecting for 30 plus years, and attended many U.S. shows prior to CGC's arrival.

 

 

[vaillant]

I kind of want to think that a pedigree book should lose its pedigree designation if it becomes a SS book.

 

That makes sense. Because once a Church pedigree book has been signed that means it was never owned by Ed and was never part of his collection.

 

You're right - the book can be traced back to Ed, but the signature that's now on it can't be traced back to him. It wasn't purposely put their by the original owner. It just feels wrong.

 

Although I tend to agree with lscomics, I also see why certain (and I stress certain) Pedigree books can be fascinating. I mean Pedigree books with stories, or marked by the original owners. I don’t care much about the others…

By adding signatures to a pedigree book – well, it does not mean "it was never owned by Ed" but surely it sorts throws a shadow on the possible story behind it.

[vaillant]

BTW, I would NEVER ask for a book to be signed on the cover.

I like them signed in the first page, or in the most significant place WITHIN the comic.

[revat]

so lemme get this straight: What we're saying in this thread is that there are differing opinions on pedigrees, signatures, signatures on pedigrees, types of pedigrees, locations of signatures, pens used to sign, and motivations for getting comics signed? I don't follow, I thought we all collected exactly the same thing in exactly the same way...You mean its not everyone's goal to collect 9.9 Double Cover Darkhawk slabs signed by Stan Lee and Nelson Mandela and the Stay Puft MarshmellowMan?

 

Its certainly ok to think what you want about this topic and express your feelings, but we should all probably accept that people will have differing viewpoints and not get too worked up about it. Of course its also your right to get worked up about it. Its just comics...have some fun, read some illustrated stories about men wearing tights punching other guys wearing tights, make some dough if that's your thing.

 

 

I should probably get back to work now...

 

 

[Rip]

Remove the signature series, and the need to have the signature on the cover of a comic would decrease or disappear as the desire to maintain aesthetic quality would override this.

I'll remember this and how wrong you are every time I'm flipping through the hundreds of raw books I have signed on the cover.

 

Again, I am making a generalization. Having collected long, long, long before the arrival of CGC, it was far more common in those antideluvian days not to have a large black squiggle on the cover, but rather a neat cursive pen or pencil sig on the splash page. Usually below the indicia.

 

You may well be one of the exceptions to the rule. No doubt you'll reply by stating that such practice is very common and has been for decades, but prior to CGC I rarely if ever saw sigs on covers. And I've been collecting for 30 plus years, and attended many U.S. shows prior to CGC's arrival.

 

 

That's an interesting point. I've got about 200+ signed books that I got signed way before CGC in my person collection, very few are on the cover.

[mrmyst]

Heaven forbid anytime in the next 50 years there occurs an event that puts into questions the legitimacy of every SS book. What if the SS program falls apart? How much are collectors going to enjoy having all those SS pedigree books then?

 

I see you you've started keeping a daydream journal.

Everyone was sure restoration was the bee's knees 30 years ago.

 

Not me.

[seanfingh]

All Signature series books are nothing but scribble, defacing the book itself.

 

If you want an autograph, just use a reprint or a photograph. 90% of SS seekers are only in it for the money they think it will bring. IMHO.

 

This 10% says you can sit and spin. (thumbs u

[jimbo_707]

get a room you two!

 

but really

 

Someone's point about SS being akin to pressing (in that you alter the state of the book) is a better (though not perfect) analogy than the argument about slabbed vs unslabbed books.

 

Any slabbed book can become an unslabbed book and visa versa.

 

A signed book cannot become an unsigned book.

 

And in my mind we are just temporary owners of these books until we have to sell them (or our family sells them), so the idea of altering a book that maintains a "1 of 1" type status in our hobby is unthinkable to me since its only mine for a while.

You're assuming that they'll eventually be sold. The coin collection my great-great-grandfather put together over a hundred years ago is still in the family.

 

However, I detest the signing of books even more than the pressing of books, especially when it's done by some scum-bag cash-grabber.

[Jeffro.]

Remove the signature series, and the need to have the signature on the cover of a comic would decrease or disappear as the desire to maintain aesthetic quality would override this.

I'll remember this and how wrong you are every time I'm flipping through the hundreds of raw books I have signed on the cover.

 

Again, I am making a generalization. Having collected long, long, long before the arrival of CGC, it was far more common in those antideluvian days not to have a large black squiggle on the cover, but rather a neat cursive pen or pencil sig on the splash page. Usually below the indicia.

 

You may well be one of the exceptions to the rule. No doubt you'll reply by stating that such practice is very common and has been for decades, but prior to CGC I rarely if ever saw sigs on covers. And I've been collecting for 30 plus years, and attended many U.S. shows prior to CGC's arrival.

 

 

Goldie is correct. The penchant pre-CGC was sigs on the splash page, not the cover.

[Ogami]

I picked a bad time to give up cocaine.