Signed Pedigree comics make baby cry.

[namisgr]

With the rate at which pedigree status is handed out, yeah... anymore pedigree and high grade are interchangeable.

 

Do you think there were more pedigrees in the 10 years before CGC started "handing them out" or the 10 years after CGC started assigning pedigrees on their slabs?

 

(thumbs u Not only were there a bunch of pedigree-worthy collections singled out by the collecting community before the existence of CGC, but the community continues to call the shots on the exceptional nature of new collections and the value above and beyond the standard market placed on them.

 

You won't see anyone paying a premium to own most of the SA Marvel comics from the Savannah collection. Early Twin Cities Marvels, on the other hand, are usually exceptionally sweet.

[Rip]

I don't understand this; "They're the only ones there are and only ones there will ever be."

 

But if someone got a uber rare golden age book signed that was mid grade, say a Double Action 2, (or harder) I wouldn't feel so great about it.

 

 

[lscomics]

I don't understand this; "They're the only ones there are and only ones there will ever be."

 

If someone got a uber rare golden age book signed that was mid grade, say a Double Action 2, (or harder) I wouldn't feel so great about it.

 

With a lot of effort you can track down other copies of both books but what makes them truly unique is the signatures.

[namisgr]

I don't understand this; "They're the only ones there are and only ones there will ever be."

 

If someone got a uber rare golden age book signed that was mid grade, say a Double Action 2, (or harder) I wouldn't feel so great about it.

 

With a lot of effort you can track down other copies of both books but what makes them truly unique is the signatures.

 

I haven't thought of Stan Lee's signature as being 'truly unique' in quite a long time.

[miraclemet]

With the rate at which pedigree status is handed out, yeah... anymore pedigree and high grade are interchangeable.

 

Do you think there were more pedigrees in the 10 years before CGC started "handing them out" or the 10 years after CGC started assigning pedigrees on their slabs?

 

(thumbs u Not only were there a bunch of pedigree-worthy collections singled out by the collecting community before the existence of CGC, but the community continues to call the shots on the exceptional nature of new collections and the value above and beyond the standard market placed on them.

 

You won't see anyone paying a premium to own most of the SA Marvel comics from the Savannah collection. Early Twin Cities Marvels, on the other hand, are usually exceptionally sweet.

 

I agree,Of the 50 odd pedigrees out there most were found before CGC.

 

Im just curious from LSComics statement if he feels there's been an "uptick" in pedigree designation due to the dastardly act of CGC "handing them out" (seemingly willy nilly)

[miraclemet]

The idea of 1 of 1 means there is not now nor will there ever be another one like it. Here are a couple examples of that. They're the only ones there are and only ones there will ever be.

 

Do the signatures detract from these books? If not, why not? Because they're lower grades? The argument that a signature takes away from the appeal of a high grade, pedigree or not, yet can add to the appeal of a lower grade book is preposterous. You can't have it both ways.

 

but the only thing that makes them 1 of 1 is that they are the lone SS copy of a book signed by a deceased creator.

 

The unsigned copy would not be 1 of a kind (assumedly) there are out there other copies of that version of the book, likely unslabbed and unsigned.

 

You created the 1 of 1 condition when you got it signed (or more accurately Joe Simon & Carmine "created" the unique condition when they died). Pedigrees already have that "unique" status without being signed. Pedigrees hold a distinction in the comic collecting community.

[goldust40]

I don't understand this; "They're the only ones there are and only ones there will ever be."

 

If someone got a uber rare golden age book signed that was mid grade, say a Double Action 2, (or harder) I wouldn't feel so great about it.

 

With a lot of effort you can track down other copies of both books but what makes them truly unique is the signatures.

 

Signatures confer uniqueness? That really is giving far too much weight to a thick, often illegible squiggle that takes a second and a half to write.

[Ogami]

Gene Colan's contributed more to the history of comic books than Edgar Church ever did.

That's a given and has absolutely nothing to do with my reason for disliking it.

 

Click for a REALLY bad analogy.

 

It could be argued that Guggenheim did more for abstract art history with collecting and the creation of museums than an artist like Mark Rothko. Does that make it any more acceptable that Solomon Guggenheim (were he still alive) decided to scribble on one of Rothko's pieces?

 

You are right.

 

 

 

That is a really bad analogy.

 

[Rip]

I don't understand this; "They're the only ones there are and only ones there will ever be."

 

If someone got a uber rare golden age book signed that was mid grade, say a Double Action 2, (or harder) I wouldn't feel so great about it.

 

With a lot of effort you can track down other copies of both books but what makes them truly unique is the signatures.

 

Its great that you got them signed before Carmine passed on. I don't think many (if any collectors) will have a problem getting those signed. But harder to find books / or higher grade/ higher demand books might be a problem.

[comix4fun]

I don't understand this; "They're the only ones there are and only ones there will ever be."

 

If someone got a uber rare golden age book signed that was mid grade, say a Double Action 2, (or harder) I wouldn't feel so great about it.

 

With a lot of effort you can track down other copies of both books but what makes them truly unique is the signatures.

 

Signatures confer uniqueness? That really is giving far too much weight to a thick, often illegible squiggle that takes a second and a half to write.

 

 

Those with Salinger squiggle on a copy of Catcher in the Rye, or an Alan Moore on a high grade Taboo #2, or Val Kilmer on Rawhide Kid #46 might disagree.

[goldust40]

I don't understand this; "They're the only ones there are and only ones there will ever be."

 

If someone got a uber rare golden age book signed that was mid grade, say a Double Action 2, (or harder) I wouldn't feel so great about it.

 

With a lot of effort you can track down other copies of both books but what makes them truly unique is the signatures.

 

Signatures confer uniqueness? That really is giving far too much weight to a thick, often illegible squiggle that takes a second and a half to write.

 

 

Those with Salinger squiggle on a copy of Catcher in the Rye, or an Alan Moore on a high grade Taboo #2, or Val Kilmer on Rawhide Kid #46 might disagree.

 

Maybe the Salinger scribble might qualify. The rest is generalization.

 

Plus Salinger's signature is unlikely to be on the cover of the book...CGC wasn't around during his time, so he was never encouraged to put his squiggle on the book jacket.

[comix4fun]

I don't understand this; "They're the only ones there are and only ones there will ever be."

 

If someone got a uber rare golden age book signed that was mid grade, say a Double Action 2, (or harder) I wouldn't feel so great about it.

 

With a lot of effort you can track down other copies of both books but what makes them truly unique is the signatures.

 

Signatures confer uniqueness? That really is giving far too much weight to a thick, often illegible squiggle that takes a second and a half to write.

 

 

Those with Salinger squiggle on a copy of Catcher in the Rye, or an Alan Moore on a high grade Taboo #2, or Val Kilmer on Rawhide Kid #46 might disagree.

 

Maybe the Salinger scribble might qualify. The rest is generalization.

 

To different people they confer different things. To you it may not, to others it may.

[Ogami]

Sal is right that this discussion should have more focus on archival pens.

[miraclemet]

I don't understand this; "They're the only ones there are and only ones there will ever be."

 

If someone got a uber rare golden age book signed that was mid grade, say a Double Action 2, (or harder) I wouldn't feel so great about it.

 

With a lot of effort you can track down other copies of both books but what makes them truly unique is the signatures.

 

Signatures confer uniqueness? That really is giving far too much weight to a thick, often illegible squiggle that takes a second and a half to write.

 

 

Those with Salinger squiggle on a copy of Catcher in the Rye, or an Alan Moore on a high grade Taboo #2, or Val Kilmer on Rawhide Kid #46 might disagree.

 

Maybe the Salinger scribble might qualify. The rest is generalization.

 

given enough time money and other resources I can probably create the last two of those three mentioned. Salinger is dead so that will require more work.

 

No matter how much I spend I cant "Create" another Edgar Church comic. All that exist are those that exist. Best I can hope is to find a ped book that had not been previuosly noted (ie a raw copy of a Larson, or such)

[goldust40]

I don't understand this; "They're the only ones there are and only ones there will ever be."

 

If someone got a uber rare golden age book signed that was mid grade, say a Double Action 2, (or harder) I wouldn't feel so great about it.

 

With a lot of effort you can track down other copies of both books but what makes them truly unique is the signatures.

 

Signatures confer uniqueness? That really is giving far too much weight to a thick, often illegible squiggle that takes a second and a half to write.

 

 

Those with Salinger squiggle on a copy of Catcher in the Rye, or an Alan Moore on a high grade Taboo #2, or Val Kilmer on Rawhide Kid #46 might disagree.

 

Maybe the Salinger scribble might qualify. The rest is generalization.

 

To different people they confer different things. To you it may not, to others it may.

 

Gosh.

 

It's a false analogy, at least as far as Salinger is concerned, because:-

 

1) His signatures are genuinely scarce and were not done for marketing purposes.

 

2) They would've been on one of the interior pages.

[cheetah]

I think it helps to differentiate between pedigrees from different ages. There are a lot more pedigrees from the GA than there are from the SA or BA. Some of the GA pedigrees come with a well-defined history of provinience. For some folks, me included, the documented history of the collection adds to its interest and collectibility. Recoil Macon books are cool because we know who he was, where he lived, and that he had OCD when it came to filling out coupons on his books. Eldon books are cool because we aren't as sure who Eldon was but he always put his first name on a book. And they both collected some very cool books. Edgar Church's books have a well-documented history and provide a quality of book that is seldom rivaled.

 

Are these books worth more than a non-pedigreed copy? For Edgar's books, I think the answer is almost always yes. For Eldon's, maybe a little just for curiosity's sake.

 

For the more recent SA and BA titles, the history seems less important than the label. Where did the Western Penn collection originate? Was Suscha News important because of the quality of the collection or just because Metro found it? Savannah and Heritage?

 

IMO, it all comes down to the particular book, it's quality, appeal, and other intangibles. Like I said, I would always pay a premium for an Edgar Church book and a few other peds. I wouldn't pay a premium for a lot of others.

[comix4fun]

I don't understand this; "They're the only ones there are and only ones there will ever be."

 

If someone got a uber rare golden age book signed that was mid grade, say a Double Action 2, (or harder) I wouldn't feel so great about it.

 

With a lot of effort you can track down other copies of both books but what makes them truly unique is the signatures.

 

Signatures confer uniqueness? That really is giving far too much weight to a thick, often illegible squiggle that takes a second and a half to write.

 

 

Those with Salinger squiggle on a copy of Catcher in the Rye, or an Alan Moore on a high grade Taboo #2, or Val Kilmer on Rawhide Kid #46 might disagree.

 

Maybe the Salinger scribble might qualify. The rest is generalization.

 

To different people they confer different things. To you it may not, to others it may.

 

Gosh.

 

It's a false analogy, at least as far as Salinger is concerned, because:-

 

1) His signatures are genuinely scarce and were not done for marketing purposes.

 

2) They would've been on one of the interior pages.

 

Salinger signatures on a Catcher might be rare but so is Moore on a Taboo #2...I know of 2, and Kilmer on a Rawhide #46..I know of 1.

 

It's not a false analogy. You said that "Signatures confer uniqueness? That really is giving far too much weight to a thick, often illegible squiggle that takes a second and a half to write." I don't think that's accurate and the width and breadth of the autograph seeking world would find that statement incorrect given the demand for signatures that are nothing but a squiggle.

[goldust40]

I think it helps to differentiate between pedigrees from different ages. There are a lot more pedigrees from the GA than there are from the SA or BA. Some of the GA pedigrees come with a well-defined history of provinience. For some folks, me included, the documented history of the collection adds to its interest and collectibility. Recoil Macon books are cool because we know who he was, where he lived, and that he had OCD when it came to filling out coupons on his books. Eldon books are cool because we aren't as sure who Eldon was but he always put his first name on a book. And they both collected some very cool books. Edgar Church's books have a well-documented history and provide a quality of book that is seldom rivaled.

 

Are these books worth more than a non-pedigreed copy? For Edgar's books, I think the answer is almost always yes. For Eldon's, maybe a little just for curiosity's sake.

 

For the more recent SA and BA titles, the history seems less important than the label. Where did the Western Penn collection originate? Was Suscha News important because of the quality of the collection or just because Metro found it? Savannah and Heritage?

 

IMO, it all comes down to the particular book, it's quality, appeal, and other intangibles. Like I said, I would always pay a premium for an Edgar Church book and a few other peds. I wouldn't pay a premium for a lot of others.

 

If there is a tangible history connected to the book in question - a history that enhances our understanding of the hobby and its original fans, not to mention the wonder of finding such uniquely preserved pop cultural artefacts with documented provenance, then it's probably for the best that you don't mess with them.

 

But of course if they're your books, and you wish to make them even more unique, then squiggle away with a nice fat sharpie.

[aggr1103]

I kind of want to think that a pedigree book should lose its pedigree designation if it becomes a SS book.

 

That makes sense. Because once a Church pedigree book has been signed that means it was never owned by Ed and was never part of his collection.

 

You're right - the book can be traced back to Ed, but the signature that's now on it can't be traced back to him. It wasn't purposely put their by the original owner. It just feels wrong.

[lscomics]

I don't understand this; "They're the only ones there are and only ones there will ever be."

 

If someone got a uber rare golden age book signed that was mid grade, say a Double Action 2, (or harder) I wouldn't feel so great about it.

 

With a lot of effort you can track down other copies of both books but what makes them truly unique is the signatures.

 

I haven't thought of Stan Lee's signature as being 'truly unique' in quite a long time.

I wasn't referring to the Stan Lee signature. It's the Simon and Infantino signatures that make the books unique.

 

The idea of 1 of 1 means there is not now nor will there ever be another one like it. Here are a couple examples of that. They're the only ones there are and only ones there will ever be.

 

Do the signatures detract from these books? If not, why not? Because they're lower grades? The argument that a signature takes away from the appeal of a high grade, pedigree or not, yet can add to the appeal of a lower grade book is preposterous. You can't have it both ways.

 

but the only thing that makes them 1 of 1 is that they are the lone SS copy of a book signed by a deceased creator.

 

The unsigned copy would not be 1 of a kind (assumedly) there are out there other copies of that version of the book, likely unslabbed and unsigned.

 

You created the 1 of 1 condition when you got it signed (or more accurately Joe Simon & Carmine "created" the unique condition when they died). Pedigrees already have that "unique" status without being signed. Pedigrees hold a distinction in the comic collecting community.

That's where our views differ. To me a 9.4 pedigree is in my eyes just that, a 9.4. No different than any other 9.4 of the same books out there. Just because it came from a sizable, original owner collection means nothing more.

 

I don't understand this; "They're the only ones there are and only ones there will ever be."

 

If someone got a uber rare golden age book signed that was mid grade, say a Double Action 2, (or harder) I wouldn't feel so great about it.

 

With a lot of effort you can track down other copies of both books but what makes them truly unique is the signatures.

 

Signatures confer uniqueness? That really is giving far too much weight to a thick, often illegible squiggle that takes a second and a half to write.

No but what they're illegibly squiggled on does.

 

I don't understand this; "They're the only ones there are and only ones there will ever be."

 

If someone got a uber rare golden age book signed that was mid grade, say a Double Action 2, (or harder) I wouldn't feel so great about it.

 

With a lot of effort you can track down other copies of both books but what makes them truly unique is the signatures.

 

Its great that you got them signed before Carmine passed on. I don't think many (if any collectors) will have a problem getting those signed. But harder to find books / or higher grade/ higher demand books might be a problem.

You let me know when you find a higher grade copy of the Mexican Strange Adventures #205. I'll be more than happy to take it off your hands.