CGC 9.8s With Spine Stress?

[slym2none]

I think the "PGM" section is pretty good at 8.5 and below, but as far as comparing them to CGC for 9.0 and above, it gets to be dicey. I also tend to agree with the PGM guys in those grades. That Hulk 181 above should not have gotten a 9.6 with multiple spine ticks as shown. A 9.4 at best, IMHO.

 

 

 

-slym

[Bosco685]

This has driven me crazy for years now. People post a book in the "Can You Spare a Grade" area, and if it has one color breaking spine tick, it's declared to be a 9.0 or 9.2. Then I look at ebay and see tons of 9.6's with such defects.

 

They also seem to grade all books the same, no matter the age or known defects. But that is why you have to make a judgement call for yourself what the final results may be. All they are providing is suggestions based on the limited pictures provided.

 

Not replying to anyone in particular but saying "spine tick" alone is not enough to describe how severe the defect is.

 

How many, how deep they run, how long they are, how much colour they break and even what colour cover they appear all will all factor into how CGC assigns a grade, IMO.

 

Oh, I agree Roy.

 

Last year there was a discussion here about CGC grading, and a number of folks felt even a 9.4 should have no spine stress lines. I feel that is unrealistic as what defects then hold a book back from being a 9.6-10.0 if none can have spine stress?

[B-Smooth]

This has driven me crazy for years now. People post a book in the "Can You Spare a Grade" area, and if it has one color breaking spine tick, it's declared to be a 9.0 or 9.2. Then I look at ebay and see tons of 9.6's with such defects.

 

They also seem to grade all books the same, no matter the age or known defects. But that is why you have to make a judgement call for yourself what the final results may be. All they are providing is suggestions based on the limited pictures provided.

 

Not replying to anyone in particular but saying "spine tick" alone is not enough to describe how severe the defect is.

 

How many, how deep they run, how long they are, how much colour they break and even what colour cover they appear all will all factor into how CGC assigns a grade, IMO.

 

Absolutely.

[stroszek]

Aw, man, no wonder my Hulk 181 CGC 9.6 Old Label got bought so quickly back in 2008. It was probably a 9.8 by the end of the week. I didn't even know what pressing was then. Oh well, at least I got top of the market for a 9.6!

 

 

[500Club]

This has driven me crazy for years now. People post a book in the "Can You Spare a Grade" area, and if it has one color breaking spine tick, it's declared to be a 9.0 or 9.2. Then I look at ebay and see tons of 9.6's with such defects.

 

They also seem to grade all books the same, no matter the age or known defects. But that is why you have to make a judgement call for yourself what the final results may be. All they are providing is suggestions based on the limited pictures provided.

 

Not replying to anyone in particular but saying "spine tick" alone is not enough to describe how severe the defect is.

 

How many, how deep they run, how long they are, how much colour they break and even what colour cover they appear all will all factor into how CGC assigns a grade, IMO.

 

(thumbs u

 

I'm with the guy with the long hair and leather pants.

 

It's a key point. Spine ticks seen at arms' length are not the same as ticks seen at 3".

 

It makes this a really tough discussion to have, due to all the variables. I guess when I refer to spine ticks, I'm thinking of the classic 1/16" or greater, visible at arms' length, but mileage may vary for everyone.

[slym2none]

I'm with the guy with the long hair and leather pants.

 

You're Roy??

 

 

 

 

-slym ( )

[sterlingcomics]

I think it's hilarious with you guys trying to rationalize a 9.8 with a color breaking crease. They are mutually exclusive if they are grading it correctly. I've seen the ever so faint non color breaking crease get a 9.8, but the stuff you guys are showing...is...just...wrong. Any day of the week.

 

Does CGC even grade the book anymore? I'm beginning to wonder. They've clearly destroyed my confidence of a CGC 9.8 with evidence in this thread, fo sho.Maybe it's just another "bad day" for them...ugh.

[Chip Cataldo]

This thread has increased my grading skills 5-fold without me having to do anything.

 

Thank you!

 

Peace,

 

Chip

[ItsJustRyan]

This has driven me crazy for years now. People post a book in the "Can You Spare a Grade" area, and if it has one color breaking spine tick, it's declared to be a 9.0 or 9.2. Then I look at ebay and see tons of 9.6's with such defects.

 

 

Here's the spine of a 9.6 currently on ebay:

 

 

Is my copy of Hulk 181, shown below, really any worse than this?

 

 

 

 

IMHO... With regards to the PGM forum, scans of a book alway emphasize problem areas (they really jump out on a scan) that really don't stand out as bad when looking at a book in hand. I can hold a book and think VF and then look at the scan and start obsessing over the now magnified defects. Then the perception starts to shift. From my experience, PGM is often more harsh because of this than CGC results. Others may disagree...

[slym2none]

I agree that scans can exacerbate a minor flaw into something much more sinister looking.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[delekkerste]

If I see any spine stress break color, no matter how small, I don't expect it to get a 9.8.

 

Maybe the CGC has been tough on my books, but I don't think I own a single 9.8 with a color-breaking flaw...and I own hundreds.

 

+1

 

Of course, all of my hundreds of slabs were graded in 2004 or earlier. As I largely moved to collecting original art after that, my grading criteria is stuck in 2004 and I am appalled by what's happened to the unofficially official grading criteria since then. A new Modern with a stress line like that? Sorry to the noobs who never knew the old criteria and to the old-timers who have long since forgotten, but that book would be a 9.4 tops in the old days, and I can state that with AUTHORITAY.

 

I've seen loads of 9.6s graded in recent years with enough stress lines that they would have been sure 9.2s back in the day (not that CGC always got it right back then, but, generally speaking). The grade inflation since I stopped collecting slabs has been :doh:

[The-Collector]

This has driven me crazy for years now. People post a book in the "Can You Spare a Grade" area, and if it has one color breaking spine tick, it's declared to be a 9.0 or 9.2. Then I look at ebay and see tons of 9.6's with such defects.

 

They also seem to grade all books the same, no matter the age or known defects. But that is why you have to make a judgement call for yourself what the final results may be. All they are providing is suggestions based on the limited pictures provided.

 

Not replying to anyone in particular but saying "spine tick" alone is not enough to describe how severe the defect is.

 

How many, how deep they run, how long they are, how much colour they break and even what colour cover they appear all will all factor into how CGC assigns a grade, IMO.

 

 

Winnah

[MagicMasonry-migration]

Question about spine stress on card covers (like a Spider-man 2099 #1). If you look down the exact middle of the spine where the front cover meets the back cover, there seems to be a "line" going all the way from top to bottom where the cover is folded, kinda looks like one long crack. I think I've seen this on pretty much every card cover I've ever seen. Is this considered a defect? Will it prevent a 9.8?

[The Kaptain]

No. I think that is considered a production defect. CGC does not deduct for production defects.

[MagicMasonry-migration]

Thanks Kap'n

[Tom473]

If I see any spine stress break color, no matter how small, I don't expect it to get a 9.8.

 

Maybe the CGC has been tough on my books, but I don't think I own a single 9.8 with a color-breaking flaw...and I own hundreds.

 

+1

 

Except for the "hundreds" part, I only own about 70, but not a single cb crease on the 9.8s. My 9.6s sometimes have a single and small color break.

[Tom473]

Any time these threads appear. It becomes time to release....The Beast!

 

What about a 9.8 with a tape pull

 

 

OMGWTF!?

 

That is hideous.

[Jaydogrules]

If I see any spine stress break color, no matter how small, I don't expect it to get a 9.8.

 

Maybe the CGC has been tough on my books, but I don't think I own a single 9.8 with a color-breaking flaw...and I own hundreds.

 

+1

 

Except for the "hundreds" part, I only own about 70, but not a single cb crease on the 9.8s. My 9.6s sometimes have a single and small color break.

 

I think the majority of my modern 9.8 slabs have a tiny cb spine tick or two. A 9.8 is not a "perfect" book.

 

-J.

[Tom473]

If I see any spine stress break color, no matter how small, I don't expect it to get a 9.8.

 

Maybe the CGC has been tough on my books, but I don't think I own a single 9.8 with a color-breaking flaw...and I own hundreds.

 

+1

 

Except for the "hundreds" part, I only own about 70, but not a single cb crease on the 9.8s. My 9.6s sometimes have a single and small color break.

 

I think the majority of my modern 9.8 slabs have a tiny cb spine tick or two. A 9.8 is not a "perfect" book.

 

-J.

 

I must need a magnifying glass, it might allow me to see some nbc I have missed with the naked eye, but I have never seen a cb on one of my 9.8s (perhaps I just got lucky). Granted, most of my 9.8s are moderns (with pre-screen service), but I don't think grading standards should vary based on age. After seeing the tape pull on that SS sketch cover, all kinds of craziness is certainly possible.

[Gunnz]

Buy the number, not the book.

 

I actually agree with the "buy the book, not the number" argument. However, you could not see these spine ticks in the photos posted on eBay. Also, there should be a certain degree of confidence when you buy a 9.8 that it will look almost perfect. I always thought that spine stress would automatically knock a book out of being a 9.8 candidate. Personally, I will never send a book to CGC if I see any spine stress as I assume it would get a 9.4 at most.

 

The purpose of having a third party grade is to verify that a book is of a certain condition when buying. IMHO, you should be able to buy a CGC book without a picture and still get exactly what you expect because you have an understanding that all 9.8's are equal and so on for the appropriate grades.