Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice movie thread for your reading pleasure 2 2

[chrisco37]

It is a rather ridiculous observation/comment.

[fantastic_four]

It is a rather ridiculous observation/comment.

 

It sounds it without him expounding on it more; I certainly don't get this assertion that Snyder had some obligation to make Wonder Woman and Superman equal when the comics rarely do. Zach Snyder does sexually objectify women in his films, but sexual objectification itself is not necessarily misogynous. There is a radical feminist view that it is, but I vehemently disagree with the perspective and enjoy discussing that topic.

[revat]

It is a rather ridiculous observation/comment.

 

It sounds it without him expounding on it more; I certainly don't get this assertion that Snyder had some obligation to make Wonder Woman and Superman equal when the comics rarely do. Zach Snyder does sexually objectify women in his films, but sexual objectification itself is not necessarily misogynous. There is a radical feminist view that it is, but I vehemently disagree with the perspective and enjoy discussing that topic.

 

Lets be clear for those who have concerns. BvS does not contain misogyny. Do some consider it trite to 'damsel in distress' at this point in time? Maybe, but that's far cry from misogyny. The only women he is showing contempt for in this movie are his female film school professors. Though to be fair, he is showing equal disdain for his male film school professors.

[Gatsby77]

I didn't see any misogyny in either Man of Steel or Batman v. Superman. In fact, I'd argue that both films featured more than one strong female protagonist.

 

I'm also tired of Mr. Merryweather's schtick -- While I agree with him that the movie was inexplicably poorly done, I've at least seen it before making that judgement.

 

That said, I will continue to point out (and take glee in) its weak box office showing because that's the only leverage we the public have to try to convince Warner Bros. to go in a different (i.e. better) direction in the future.

 

This weekend's factoid: Batman v. Superman's getting trounced by the (much cheaper) Jungle Book.

 

Not only did The Jungle Book manage to be # 1 for three whole weekends (as opposed to getting beaten by a Melissa McCarthy movie), its week # 3 take is 75% higher than that of Batman v. Superman's.

 

The Jungle Book, 3rd weekend: $42 million

Batman v. Superman, 3rd weekend: $24 million.

 

[Cat-Man_America]

You come across as a troll because you are so persistent in dropping highly inflammatory remarks about something you clearly have very little knowledge about. It looks like crazy talk.

 

Stick with Timely or Catman covers.

 

 

Well, it's all in the mind of the beholder, right? If I saw every Zack Snyder advocate as a troll instead of an apologist, I'd have given up on this thread over a weak ago as a waste of time.

 

 

I tend to be very passionate about film and comics, which is probably what you perceive as childish behavior. Both my wife and I found MoS offensive, but from my perspective it was the most vile, offensive and degrading film I've paid to see in the past twenty years, Very few people had as negative a reaction as I did to this film. Of course everyone takes from any film experience what they will. In this instance, I felt some guilt at having contributed to the profits of MoS which allowed Zack Snyder to make a sequel.

 

You mean the misogyny you perceived to be part of 'Man of Steel' that actually wasn't a movie theme, but actually the opposing view?

 

Zack Snyder is no Fellini. He's about as capable of pulling off subtle narrative as Michael Bay.

 

Mysogyny? You are just making stuff up.

 

Not at all. It started when Lois asked for a place to "tinkle" and went downhill from there. This phrase immediately established her as someone to be viewed as non-adult, since that's a child's terminology.

 

He's just a postulating postulator. But not the Roman Church-type (although secretly he may to canonization Snyder one day).

 

But on a more serious note, misogyny in 'Man of Steel'?!

 

It embedded in it's DNA. Once you see it, it stands out periodically.

 

If anything, Clark worshiped his mother who is a strong influence on his life views. Even in reflecting back on his early years when his powers started appearing, it was Martha Kent that taught him how to calm his fears.

 

It's a pretty standard rule of thumb in heroic films that moms are untouchable. Martha Kent isn't a sex object and her influence has no bearing on the overall tone of the movie.

 

She becomes his guiding light to overcome his transition pains from unknowing youth to super-powered being. And without her stability and love, who knows what he would have become.

 

And it carries over to his later life. When he defends his co-worker at the bar, and was pushed to the point he could have killed the disrespectful patron, it is that female co-worker that brings him out of that pending rage that could have led to a horrible situation - for that patron.

 

Even when Clark needs to find peace in his life, he comes back to Martha to share the news he has discovered his origin and his birth father.

 

The women in Clark's life are his peace and comfort in his adopted world. And for those that would be disrespectful to them - like Zod threatening Martha Kent - watch out!

 

That misses the point. It isn't about Martha, it isn't about Superman's ruminations over his existance, it isn't about Zod. It's about the way many women are depicted in their roles as submissive vapid characters throughout the film.

 

Other than that - misogyny. Misogyny everywhere in 'Man of Steel'.

 

 

Not everywhere, but frequently enough to draw attention to itself, ...for those willing and able to see it.

 

Peace of mind, bro.

 

Peace be with you too, dude.

 

[fantastic_four]

But on a more serious note, misogyny in 'Man of Steel'?!

 

It embedded in it's DNA. Once you see it, it stands out periodically.

 

What are some examples?

[Bosco685]

It embedded in it's DNA. Once you see it, it stands out periodically.

 

Since I provided actual scenes to show why I do not agree with your assumption, can you provide a video example where Zack Snyder portrayed misogyny? It would help with this discussion.

 

If you can't truly demonstrate this, hopefully you can then understand why people are calling out your assumptions as nothing more than trolling a film. It's had that feeling for more than one post.

[Bosco685]

But on a more serious note, misogyny in 'Man of Steel'?!

 

It embedded in it's DNA. Once you see it, it stands out periodically.

 

What are some examples?

 

You beat me to it while I was typing.

 

[fantastic_four]

But on a more serious note, misogyny in 'Man of Steel'?!

 

It embedded in it's DNA. Once you see it, it stands out periodically.

 

What are some examples?

 

You beat me to it while I was typing.

 

 

Brevity for the win.

[Gatsby77]

Now I'm even more confused.

 

Or you're engaging in some Jedi-level trolling.

 

When has Lois Lane _ever_ been portrayed in a movie as a stronger female protagonist than she was in Man of Steel (I'm thinking of two scenes -- the investigative reporting montage & the interview with him, specifically)?

 

I'll give you Lois & Clark back in the '90s -- that Lois was far more than a damsel in distress archetype.

 

But if anything the writing of Margot Kidder's role in the first run of Superman movies was _far_ less progressive and feminist than that of Lois in Snyder's two movies.

 

Also, keep in mind the _vast_ majority of Lois Lane portrayals in the comics have been far more misogynist than your (misguided) assertions via Snyder's movie.

 

Example: Read nearly _any_ Silver Age issue of Lois Lane's solo run. Holy mess. And that's in her own book.

[revat]

But on a more serious note, misogyny in 'Man of Steel'?!

 

It embedded in it's DNA. Once you see it, it stands out periodically.

 

What are some examples?

 

You beat me to it while I was typing.

 

 

Of course everyone has differing opinions, but I actually thought Lois was by far the best part of MOS. In fact I would have very much enjoyed an entire movie about her chasing down the superman-myth much more than the movie that was actually made. I do agree that in the end, forcing Superman and Lois to somehow 'fall in love' felt very forced, but to me that signals more of a contrived ending and lack of creativity (or possibly the hand of the studio), more than any type of misogyny.

 

 

[revat]

But on a more serious note, misogyny in 'Man of Steel'?!

 

It embedded in it's DNA. Once you see it, it stands out periodically.

 

What are some examples?

 

You beat me to it while I was typing.

 

 

Of course everyone has differing opinions, but I actually thought Lois was by far the best part of MOS. In fact I would have very much enjoyed an entire movie about her chasing down the superman-myth much more than the movie that was actually made. I do agree that in the end, forcing Superman and Lois to somehow 'fall in love' felt very forced, but to me that signals more of a contrived ending and lack of creativity (or possibly the hand of the studio), more than any type of misogyny.

 

 

Also, I didn't think Zack Snyder wrote either movie...those obviously a director has some say in the portrayal

[Bosco685]

Of course everyone has differing opinions, but I actually thought Lois was by far the best part of MOS. In fact I would have very much enjoyed an entire movie about her chasing down the superman-myth much more than the movie that was actually made. I do agree that in the end, forcing Superman and Lois to somehow 'fall in love' felt very forced, but to me that signals more of a contrived ending and lack of creativity (or possibly the hand of the studio), more than any type of misogyny.

 

Amy Adams may not look the traditional part of Lois Lane. But she definitely played a strong woman that once she was locked in on a story, the only way to wave her off is with an even better story to investigate. Anything short of that and she will just run you over.

 

I like her in the role.

[revat]

Of course everyone has differing opinions, but I actually thought Lois was by far the best part of MOS. In fact I would have very much enjoyed an entire movie about her chasing down the superman-myth much more than the movie that was actually made. I do agree that in the end, forcing Superman and Lois to somehow 'fall in love' felt very forced, but to me that signals more of a contrived ending and lack of creativity (or possibly the hand of the studio), more than any type of misogyny.

 

Amy Adams may not look the traditional part of Lois Lane. But she definitely played a strong woman that once she was locked in on a story, the only way to wave her off is with an even better story to investigate. Anything short of that and she will just run you over.

 

I like her in the role.

 

her scenes were the least sleepy parts of MOS by a long shot. Although I enjoyed her usage in BvS much much less, but not through any fault of the actress.

[Bosco685]

Box Office: The Verdict for 'Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice'

 

The verdict is in: Zack Snyder's Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice will end up as the No. 7 comic book movie of all time at the worldwide box office to date, not accounting for inflation.

 

Through Sunday, BvS — which is all but done with its run — has grossed $862.9 million globally, including $325.1 million in North America (37.7 percent of its total) and $537.8 million internationally (62.3 percent). It's likely to finish up in the $875 million range when all is said and done, not enough to change the order.

 

Warner Bros. is steadfast in proclaiming the tentpole, starring Ben Affleck and Henry Cavill, an enormous victory, saying it successfully launches the DC cinematic universe. (The next outing is director David Ayer's Suicide Squad on Aug. 5., while Snyder is in the midst of shooting the first Justice League.)

 

BvS, costing at least $225 million to produce before marketing, has grossed notably more than Snyder's Man of Steel, which first introduced Cavill as the newest superman. Released in 2013, Man of Steel took in $668 million globally and $291 million domestically.

 

"This is a fantastic result, by any measure," said Warner Bros. domestic distribution chief Jeff Goldstein.

 

The movie was roundly rejected by critics (it sports a 27 percent rating on Rotten Tomatoes), while audiences only awarded it a B CinemaScore, a poor grade considering most superhero tentpoles have received some variation of an A grade.

 

But says comScore's Paul Dergarabedian: "In what world is $862 million not a hit? Despite tepid reviews and mixed audience response, the power of the brand and the novelty of the two iconic super heroes going 'mano a mano' has delivered an unqualified global success. From a box office perspective this is a blockbuster hit no matter you slice it.

 

"Now if you want to talk about the emotional enmity and critical lack of enthusiasm for the film, that's a separate and distinctive argument," Dergarabedian continued. "However that's not relevant to box office-centric perspective that says this movie is a hit."

 

 

 

[fantastic_four]

Not sure if he'll substantiate the misogyny idea, but in case he doesn't, the usual argument is that sexualized images of women such as Snyder loves to put on screen--as many if not most directors do, by the way--objectifies them. When women are objectified, it tends to undermine their sense of self-worth if the person being put on-screen personifies a level of beauty that most women can't achieve. Women want to be Amy Adams, or Gal Gadot, but most just aren't born with bodies to achieve that, so to perpetuate the imagery is implicitly misogynistic.

 

Having said all that, Snyder just likes extremes of humanity regardless of whether it's a man or a woman, so the usual radical charges really don't work with him. He does the exact same thing with men as is evident in Cavill or Affleck's extreme size and conditioning. You might equally charge Snyder with being misandristic (hating men) by putting imagery like that shown below on screen making most men feel horribly inadequate.

 

[AnthonyTheAbyss]

 

 

 

There are only 3 good movies on this top 10 list

[fantastic_four]

 

 

 

There are only 3 good movies on this top 10 list

 

There are at least six on there. Dark Knight and Spidey 2 are the best two superhero films ever made.

[Gatsby77]

Nice spin. But it's still sitting at # 19 domestically after inflation.

 

It won't touch Deadpool, let alone Batman Forever. As I posted a week ago, it *might* match Guardians of the Galaxy, but that's a stretch.

 

I'd hate to be a Warner Bros. executive who'd have to explain that:

 

"Uhh, yeah. We spent close to half a billion dollars, put the two most iconic superheroes of all time together, added in Wonder Woman and a heavy slate of Oscar-worthy talent...

 

And fewer folks went to see it than did to see a bunch of goofy no-names in space, including a talking raccoon and giant tree."

 

 

[Straw-Man]

 

 

 

There are only 3 good movies on this top 10 list

 

There are at least six on there. Dark Knight and Spidey 2 are the best two superhero films ever made.

 

I'm right there with you, but i have a triumvirate with avengers 1 with 'em. further, to show i have no bias against d.c films, tho' i have a very strong marvel bias for comics, i have to admit that of said trio, i consider d.k. first among equals.