Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice movie thread for your reading pleasure 2 2

[A.Romeo]

I don't know how any of you could be Superman fans & cry sexism or misogyny when it comes to the the whole Superman/Lois dynamic. Lois has more or less always been portrayed as the damsel that needs Superman's saving.

 

Nobody will cry sexism if Wonder Woman swoops in to protect Steve Trevor.

 

The way you guys talk about this, it's like the these heroes should only save people of the same gender or there's some negative connotation to the whole scene.

 

A man saving a woman, doesn't necessarily imply prejudice or discrimination against women. Get over it already. You guys are taking this way too far. You'd literally have to label just about everything as sexist at that rate.

 

Somehow you've managed to miss the point completely. It isn't the traditional Lois Lane & Clark/Superman dynamic that creates an atmosphere of sexism. Heck, even in the 50's TV series Phyllis Coates could be seen acting decisively at personal risk and not calling out for Superman's help when she got into trouble.

 

Saving Lois isn't the issue. I suppose given the modern rebooting of the characters it SHOULD be an issue in keeping with the realistic dystopian world because retaining the traditional dynamic when Superman is so radically reenvisioned could be viewed as sexism, but I digress.

 

The real issue based on MoS (which is the stencil on which BvS was written and filmed) is that attractive females cast as professional women are either depicted as vapid sexpots or solely dependent upon their male counterparts. Forget Martha Kent for a moment as she symbolizes something entirely different (think along the lines of Yoda from Star Wars or any other mentoring figure).

 

One nauseating example toward the end of MoS was the very attractive female staff officer who commented that Superman was hot to her commanding officer. Nothing humorous about that, it was sexist and unprofessional.

 

If you don't like the word sexism how would you describe the diminutive role iconography of women in Zack's Superman films?

 

There's gotta be something better or more constructive to do than to get your panties in a bunch about sexism in comic book movies ...

 

[Comicopolis]

I'm not saying he shouldn't have had a volte-face, but thought that the trigger was poor. Casual. Lazy.

 

It was put in the fight scene to make it more dramatic...but then you're painted into a corner.

 

Just wondering how the -script using the name 'Martha' painted the story into a corner?

 

No, what I was saying is that because the change of heart happened in the heat of battle, it had to be a one word answer, a 'silver bullet' that had Bats stunned.

 

The real reasons for a change of heart should have been much more nuanced...but Snyder went for the drama and missed the mark entirely.

 

Bats is the world's best detective...could he not have investigated, figured things out, weighed the possibilities...and then decided that his emotional response to the destruction of Metropolis was wrong?

 

Not if you want a mid-battle enlightenment, he couldn't.

 

The world's best detective - who didn't know that a boat was a boat.

[Comicopolis]

Ultron sucked.

 

It's better than BVS.

 

No... no it isn't.

 

Yes, yes it is.

[Comicopolis]

Ultron sucked.

 

It's better than BVS.

 

No... no it isn't.

 

I have the Blu-ray of AoU, and enjoy it.

 

Hey if you enjoy wasting both your time and money....

 

We can all bow down to your experience there.

[Comicopolis]

I disagree with DM totally regarding the "misogyny" comments.

 

A few days ago he agreed that it was sexism he meant, not misogyny. I don't disagree with him that that sexism was present, I just disagree that it was present enough for it to stick out. Plenty of films have at least some sexist elements, and Snyder's two Superman films don't deserve singling out for theirs.

 

If people confuse sexism with misogyny they need to go back to school.

[Flaming_Telepath]

I don't know how any of you could be Superman fans & cry sexism or misogyny when it comes to the the whole Superman/Lois dynamic. Lois has more or less always been portrayed as the damsel that needs Superman's saving.

 

Nobody will cry sexism if Wonder Woman swoops in to protect Steve Trevor.

 

The way you guys talk about this, it's like the these heroes should only save people of the same gender or there's some negative connotation to the whole scene.

 

A man saving a woman, doesn't necessarily imply prejudice or discrimination against women. Get over it already. You guys are taking this way too far. You'd literally have to label just about everything as sexist at that rate.

 

Somehow you've managed to miss the point completely. It isn't the traditional Lois Lane & Clark/Superman dynamic that creates an atmosphere of sexism. Heck, even in the 50's TV series Phyllis Coates could be seen acting decisively at personal risk and not calling out for Superman's help when she got into trouble.

 

Saving Lois isn't the issue. I suppose given the modern rebooting of the characters it SHOULD be an issue in keeping with the realistic dystopian world because retaining the traditional dynamic when Superman is so radically reenvisioned could be viewed as sexism, but I digress.

 

The real issue based on MoS (which is the stencil on which BvS was written and filmed) is that attractive females cast as professional women are either depicted as vapid sexpots or solely dependent upon their male counterparts. Forget Martha Kent for a moment as she symbolizes something entirely different (think along the lines of Yoda from Star Wars or any other mentoring figure).

 

One nauseating example toward the end of MoS was the very attractive female staff officer who commented that Superman was hot to her commanding officer. Nothing humorous about that, it was sexist and unprofessional.

 

If you don't like the word sexism how would you describe the diminutive role iconography of women in Zack's Superman films?

 

There's gotta be something better or more constructive to do than to get your panties in a bunch about sexism in comic book movies ...

 

So sexism isn't important?

 

Not that I agree with charges of rampant sexism...it all seems to be part of the current trend to be offended by everything...but there were characters that were underused in BvS and they happened to be female.

 

However, your comment appears to be somewhat sexist?

[Flaming_Telepath]

Ultron sucked.

 

It's better than BVS.

 

No... no it isn't.

 

Yes, yes it is.

 

I'm afraid it is. AoU didn't break down any boundaries, but it was a cohesive, well-crafted superhero romp that ticked all the right boxes.

[Davenport]

Well . I've seen MOS and BvS multiple times and missed the 'vapid sexpots' every time.

[A.Romeo]

I don't know how any of you could be Superman fans & cry sexism or misogyny when it comes to the the whole Superman/Lois dynamic. Lois has more or less always been portrayed as the damsel that needs Superman's saving.

 

Nobody will cry sexism if Wonder Woman swoops in to protect Steve Trevor.

 

The way you guys talk about this, it's like the these heroes should only save people of the same gender or there's some negative connotation to the whole scene.

 

A man saving a woman, doesn't necessarily imply prejudice or discrimination against women. Get over it already. You guys are taking this way too far. You'd literally have to label just about everything as sexist at that rate.

 

Somehow you've managed to miss the point completely. It isn't the traditional Lois Lane & Clark/Superman dynamic that creates an atmosphere of sexism. Heck, even in the 50's TV series Phyllis Coates could be seen acting decisively at personal risk and not calling out for Superman's help when she got into trouble.

 

Saving Lois isn't the issue. I suppose given the modern rebooting of the characters it SHOULD be an issue in keeping with the realistic dystopian world because retaining the traditional dynamic when Superman is so radically reenvisioned could be viewed as sexism, but I digress.

 

The real issue based on MoS (which is the stencil on which BvS was written and filmed) is that attractive females cast as professional women are either depicted as vapid sexpots or solely dependent upon their male counterparts. Forget Martha Kent for a moment as she symbolizes something entirely different (think along the lines of Yoda from Star Wars or any other mentoring figure).

 

One nauseating example toward the end of MoS was the very attractive female staff officer who commented that Superman was hot to her commanding officer. Nothing humorous about that, it was sexist and unprofessional.

 

If you don't like the word sexism how would you describe the diminutive role iconography of women in Zack's Superman films?

 

There's gotta be something better or more constructive to do than to get your panties in a bunch about sexism in comic book movies ...

 

So sexism isn't important?

 

Not that I agree with charges of rampant sexism...it all seems to be part of the current trend to be offended by everything...but there were characters that were underused in BvS and they happened to be female.

 

However, your comment appears to be somewhat sexist?

 

I could pick out any random movie and point out where female characters were underused, doesn't mean it was a sexist movie.

 

as for my somewhat sexist comment, it definitely was!

[Comicopolis]

Ultron sucked.

 

It's better than BVS.

 

No... no it isn't.

 

Yes, yes it is.

 

I'm afraid it is. AoU didn't break down any boundaries, but it was a cohesive, well-crafted superhero romp that ticked all the right boxes.

 

[revat]

I don't know how any of you could be Superman fans & cry sexism or misogyny when it comes to the the whole Superman/Lois dynamic. Lois has more or less always been portrayed as the damsel that needs Superman's saving.

 

Nobody will cry sexism if Wonder Woman swoops in to protect Steve Trevor.

 

The way you guys talk about this, it's like the these heroes should only save people of the same gender or there's some negative connotation to the whole scene.

 

A man saving a woman, doesn't necessarily imply prejudice or discrimination against women. Get over it already. You guys are taking this way too far. You'd literally have to label just about everything as sexist at that rate.

 

Somehow you've managed to miss the point completely. It isn't the traditional Lois Lane & Clark/Superman dynamic that creates an atmosphere of sexism. Heck, even in the 50's TV series Phyllis Coates could be seen acting decisively at personal risk and not calling out for Superman's help when she got into trouble.

 

Saving Lois isn't the issue. I suppose given the modern rebooting of the characters it SHOULD be an issue in keeping with the realistic dystopian world because retaining the traditional dynamic when Superman is so radically reenvisioned could be viewed as sexism, but I digress.

 

The real issue based on MoS (which is the stencil on which BvS was written and filmed) is that attractive females cast as professional women are either depicted as vapid sexpots or solely dependent upon their male counterparts. Forget Martha Kent for a moment as she symbolizes something entirely different (think along the lines of Yoda from Star Wars or any other mentoring figure).

 

One nauseating example toward the end of MoS was the very attractive female staff officer who commented that Superman was hot to her commanding officer. Nothing humorous about that, it was sexist and unprofessional.

 

If you don't like the word sexism how would you describe the diminutive role iconography of women in Zack's Superman films?

 

There's gotta be something better or more constructive to do than to get your panties in a bunch about sexism in comic book movies ...

 

So sexism isn't important?

 

Not that I agree with charges of rampant sexism...it all seems to be part of the current trend to be offended by everything...but there were characters that were underused in BvS and they happened to be female.

 

However, your comment appears to be somewhat sexist?

 

I could pick out any random movie and point out where female characters were underused, doesn't mean it was a sexist movie.

 

as for my somewhat sexist comment, it definitely was!

 

I would say the editor and sound editor in BvS were by the most underused assets available, showing its bias against editors. Zack Snyder is an editorist pig!

[chezmtghut]

I don't know how any of you could be Superman fans & cry sexism or misogyny when it comes to the the whole Superman/Lois dynamic. Lois has more or less always been portrayed as the damsel that needs Superman's saving.

 

Nobody will cry sexism if Wonder Woman swoops in to protect Steve Trevor.

 

The way you guys talk about this, it's like the these heroes should only save people of the same gender or there's some negative connotation to the whole scene.

 

A man saving a woman, doesn't necessarily imply prejudice or discrimination against women. Get over it already. You guys are taking this way too far. You'd literally have to label just about everything as sexist at that rate.

 

Somehow you've managed to miss the point completely. It isn't the traditional Lois Lane & Clark/Superman dynamic that creates an atmosphere of sexism. Heck, even in the 50's TV series Phyllis Coates could be seen acting decisively at personal risk and not calling out for Superman's help when she got into trouble.

 

Saving Lois isn't the issue. I suppose given the modern rebooting of the characters it SHOULD be an issue in keeping with the realistic dystopian world because retaining the traditional dynamic when Superman is so radically reenvisioned could be viewed as sexism, but I digress.

 

The real issue based on MoS (which is the stencil on which BvS was written and filmed) is that attractive females cast as professional women are either depicted as vapid sexpots or solely dependent upon their male counterparts. Forget Martha Kent for a moment as she symbolizes something entirely different (think along the lines of Yoda from Star Wars or any other mentoring figure).

 

One nauseating example toward the end of MoS was the very attractive female staff officer who commented that Superman was hot to her commanding officer. Nothing humorous about that, it was sexist and unprofessional.

 

If you don't like the word sexism how would you describe the diminutive role iconography of women in Zack's Superman films?

 

There's gotta be something better or more constructive to do than to get your panties in a bunch about sexism in comic book movies ...

 

So sexism isn't important?

 

Not that I agree with charges of rampant sexism...it all seems to be part of the current trend to be offended by everything...but there were characters that were underused in BvS and they happened to be female.

 

However, your comment appears to be somewhat sexist?

 

I could pick out any random movie and point out where female characters were underused, doesn't mean it was a sexist movie.

 

as for my somewhat sexist comment, it definitely was!

 

If the movie was Wonder Woman v Lois, I would agree that the main female cast was underused, but the women were only meant to play small supporting roles in this film. If we see this little of Gal Gadot in Wonder Woman next year, then I would take issue with it myself.

 

I honestly thought they gave more significance to the role of Lois in MOS by having her communicate with Jor-El instead of Clark. How does the female SO saying Superman is hot make it sexist? Unprofessional, yes. I'm sure that's what everyone was thinking when we saw Wonder Woman in BvS, so does that mean we're all sexist in your mind?

 

Anyways, my intention wasn't to get drawn into a tense debate but rather to try & defuse one. Maybe that's just not possible here.

[bane]

Ultron sucked.

 

It's better than BVS.

 

No... no it isn't.

 

Yes, yes it is.

 

I'm afraid it is. AoU didn't break down any boundaries, but it was a cohesive, well-crafted superhero romp that ticked all the right boxes.

 

 

That's right gang up on the Southerner.

[TheLiamSturgess]

Ultron sucked.

 

It's better than BVS.

 

No... no it isn't.

 

Yes, yes it is.

 

+3872349872109847

[mschmidt]

The other female in the film, Lois Lane, you certainly could make the argument that she was portrayed poorly. In this movie, they tried to give her a little bit of "bite", but she was basically the "damsel in distress".

 

She did go under water after the kryptonite spear, and risk her life jumping between Batman and Superman...

 

Which required Superman to save her.

 

I thought the portrayal of Lois Lane was terrible in BvS - I know that the comics have a long history of her being treated as the damsel in distress, but with MoS it at least seemed like Snyder was trying to give her some relevance & personality; in BvS she was window-dressing, only relevant when Superman needed to save her.

[rjrjr]

Ultron sucked.

 

I don't think the movie sucked, but it was not deserving of all the money it made. Ultron could have been a really cool villain. Instead he was It is the type of movie you get when a committee works on it. Too bad Josh Whedon didn't get to make the movie he wanted to make.

 

Iron Man 3 sucked though. Mandarin.

 

Marvel has to have their heroes fight each other. Their villains (outside of Loki) pretty much have all been underwhelming. Ultron, Maleketh, Mandarin, Ronan (defeated by a dance off - ) I hope Thanos is done right.

[rjrjr]

The real reasons for a change of heart should have been much more nuanced...but Snyder went for the drama and missed the mark entirely.

 

Bats is the world's best detective...could he not have investigated, figured things out, weighed the possibilities...and then decided that his emotional response to the destruction of Metropolis was wrong?

 

Not if you want a mid-battle enlightenment, he couldn't.

The foundation of the entire story is something new. A Batman we've never seen before.

 

This Batman has already had a twenty year career in a world without Superman.

 

And the story opens with this Batman well along a downward spiral, becoming 'cruel' (as Alfred puts it). Thinking he's wasted his life. Bitter.

 

Anyway, Batman of this story isn't at the top of his game. Just the opposite. And his motivations are in line with his mindset. He did everything you mention (investigated, figured things out, weighed the possibilities), becoming Luthor's pawn and almost Superman's killer.

 

 

And there lies the problem with the movie for me. I would like to have seen a Ben Affleck version of Batman in his prime or at least some crime fighting version of Batman before I got this aged bitter version.

 

I will admit that my Batman canon ended in the late '70s Bronze Age, so I may not be acquainted with the copper or modern age tortured wreckless version that was portrayed in the movie.

 

This Batman was very much Neal Adam's Batman. Just older.

[bane]

Marvel has to have their heroes fight each other. Their villains (outside of Loki) pretty much have all been underwhelming. Ultron, Maleketh, Mandarin, Ronan (defeated by a dance off - ) I hope Thanos is done right.

 

+1

[fantastic_four]

How does the female SO saying Superman is hot make it sexist?

 

Because it's perpetuating the classic stereotype that women are only interested in one thing, you chauvinist pig, you.

 

If that comment was sexist towards any gender it was men. But hey, it related to sex, so therefore it's "sexist," and since the topic is sexism against women, let's just assume it somehow twists back in that direction.

[Flaming_Telepath]

One nauseating example toward the end of MoS was the very attractive female staff officer who commented that Superman was hot to her commanding officer. Nothing humorous about that, it was sexist and unprofessional.

 

This is not an example of sexism. Those lines were the exclusive preserve of the male gender up to recent times. It could be argued that it was more an example of female empowerment.

 

It might have been unprofessional, but sexist? Nope.