Overlooked and Potentially Undervalued Long/Mid-Term 2 2

[Broke as a Joke]

But he missed my point which was he broke out in the Marvel universe, not with collectors. In fact by the year 2000, the speculators had all but vanished from the comic scene, making almost any book that came out within those 10 years easy to obtain.

[divad]

ok... "Um. Deadpool was a blip in 1993, and then was forgotten until 2008/2009.

 

He not only did not break out, he was completely forgotten for nearly 20 years"

 

So getting a solo book in 1997 didn't mean anything?

 

Did Silver Sable getting a solo book in 1992 mean anything?

 

Did Deathlok getting a solo book in 1991 AND 1999 mean anything?

 

Did Cable getting a solo book in 1993 mean anything?

 

Did Spiderwoman getting a solo book in 2000 mean anything?

 

Did Lobo having endless minis throughout the 90's mean anything?

 

We are talking about the value and demand of the first appearance, not whether the character was published or not. Lots and lots of characters are published, whose first appearances aren't worth much. Deadpool was one of them, from the time the "heat" faded after his first mini, until about 2009.

 

This is really silly. If you are a blip in 1993 and then forgotten you wouldn't have a ongoing monthly title come out 4 years later.

That's not his point. His point is that there was enough baseline interest in the character that he got a solo title, but he wasn't red hot until a few years back.

 

Certainly, in 1997, when the first solo series was launched, the rabid Deadpool buyers and Cosplayers did not exist yet.

 

And not even that, a solo title means only that Marvel thought he had a chance. It doesn't indicate any baseline level of interest whatsoever (See, Maverick, supra).

[jsilverjanet]

And I disagree that there aren't any "memorable runs" from the era.

 

Batman #608-619

Authority #1-16

Planetary #1-26

Apocalypse: The Twelve

Cataclsym/No Man's Land (one of the best long term Bat sagas ever)

Astro City #1-22

Flash #164-200

Loeb/McGuinness Superman (#154-180ish.)

Preacher

League of Extraordinary Gentlemen

Superman: Red Son

Y: The Last Man

Fables

30 Days of Night

Formerly Known As The Justice League

Identity Crisis

Countdown to Infinite Crisis (and the four titles, all outstanding)

 

And that's just off the top of my head. The era is filled with outstanding runs....they just haven't all gotten the press they should because the industry was in such doldrums.

 

 

This is list pretty much DC what about Marvel?

[Broke as a Joke]

I think Maverick series lasted a year or less. Deadpool went 60 issues. Any X character had a chance at a solo book back then, X-Men was their best selling franchise.

[divad]

I think Maverick series lasted a year or less. Deadpool went 60 issues. Any X character had a chance at a solo book back then, X-Men was their best selling franchise.

 

And thus, between the two titles, Marvel was batting .500. What happened to Longshot? He's an X-Character, and all he got was a limited series.

[RockMyAmadeus]

But he missed my point which was he broke out in the Marvel universe, not with collectors. In fact by the year 2000, the speculators had all but vanished from the comic scene, making almost any book that came out within those 10 years easy to obtain.

 

I didn't miss your point. You're using the term "broke out" in a way that is not common. This thread is about the value of individual books, not (necessarily) the popularity of characters. "Breaking out" means that a book has become more popular and desired than the books around it, and that desire has been recognized. Spiderman #252, for example, is "broken out" from #240-#260.

 

You're not understanding: the issue isn't whether or not Deadpool as a character is profitable for Marvel to publish him.

 

The issue is the specific value of his first appearance.

 

And, in that sense...that is, the value of his first appearance...Deadpool was forgotten for nearly 20 years.

 

I didn't say Deadpool, like Fatman, the Human Flying Saucer, drifted off into unpublished obscurity. It's simply that the demand for his first appearance simply didn't exist for the vast majority of his 24 years.

[RockMyAmadeus]

And I disagree that there aren't any "memorable runs" from the era.

 

Batman #608-619

Authority #1-16

Planetary #1-26

Apocalypse: The Twelve

Cataclsym/No Man's Land (one of the best long term Bat sagas ever)

Astro City #1-22

Flash #164-200

Loeb/McGuinness Superman (#154-180ish.)

Preacher

League of Extraordinary Gentlemen

Superman: Red Son

Y: The Last Man

Fables

30 Days of Night

Formerly Known As The Justice League

Identity Crisis

Countdown to Infinite Crisis (and the four titles, all outstanding)

 

And that's just off the top of my head. The era is filled with outstanding runs....they just haven't all gotten the press they should because the industry was in such doldrums.

 

 

This is list pretty much DC what about Marvel?

By all means, feel free to add your suggestions!

[seanfingh]

Marvel was doing interesting things at the time as well, but many will not see too much of a spike, I wouldn't think. They rebooted the main characters coming out of the Onslaught - Heroes Reborn (edit - maybe it was Heroes Return - i am getting old). The Iron Man and Cap were both very good. The Busiek/Perez Avengers was odd, great at times, weird at times. I liked the Jake Olsen Thor for the first 12 issues or so because of that evil Pantheon that was whupping Asgard's tail. I loved the Thunderbolts.

 

I wasn't reading Spider-Man. I didn't start reading the Hulk again until Bruce Jones took over. There were lots of other books that I didn't read - Reboots of Defenders, New Warriors, Nova etc. It was quite like the new 52 without the concerted effort.

 

The Black Panther series was good. I really liked the Mutant X book about Havok slipping into an alternate Universe where the X-Men were evil. Bernie Wrightson did a weird Punisher book where Frank Castle was killing for heaven. Marvel Boy was very interesting.

 

Marvel was publishing interesting books during this time frame, and they kept me interested until the rebooting after rebooting started in 2008 or so.

Edited September 29, 2014 by seanfingh

[WebSlinger]

Marvel was doing interesting things at the time as well, but many will not see too much of a spike, I wouldn't think. They rebooted the main characters coming out of the Onslaught - Heroes Reborn (edit - maybe it was Heroes Return - i am getting old). The Iron Man and Cap were both very good. The Busiek/Perez Avengers was odd, great at times, weird at times. I liked the Jake Olsen Thor for the first 12 issues or so because of that evil Pantheon that was whupping Asgard's tail. I loved the Thunderbolts.

 

I wasn't reading Spider-Man. I didn't start reading the Hulk again until Bruce Jones took over. There were lots of other books that I didn't read - Reboots of Defenders, New Warriors, Nova etc. It was quite like the new 52 without the concerted effort.

 

The Black Panther series was good. I really liked the Mutant X book about Havok slipping into an alternate Universe where the X-Men were evil. Bernie Wrightson did a weird Punisher book where Frank Castle was killing for heaven. Marvel Boy was very interesting.

 

Marvel was publishing interesting books during this time frame, and they kept me interested until the rebooting after rebooting started in 2008 or so.

 

Ahhhh the good ol days..........Marvel just won't stop rebooting as far as I can see it anyway, as long as they sucker people into buying all the books over and over again it will never stop.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

The "why not make every issue #1" point has been made for 35 years.

 

It took a while, but Marvel finally managed to do just that.

[jsilverjanet]

And I disagree that there aren't any "memorable runs" from the era.

 

Batman #608-619

Authority #1-16

Planetary #1-26

Apocalypse: The Twelve

Cataclsym/No Man's Land (one of the best long term Bat sagas ever)

Astro City #1-22

Flash #164-200

Loeb/McGuinness Superman (#154-180ish.)

Preacher

League of Extraordinary Gentlemen

Superman: Red Son

Y: The Last Man

Fables

30 Days of Night

Formerly Known As The Justice League

Identity Crisis

Countdown to Infinite Crisis (and the four titles, all outstanding)

 

And that's just off the top of my head. The era is filled with outstanding runs....they just haven't all gotten the press they should because the industry was in such doldrums.

 

 

This is list pretty much DC what about Marvel?

By all means, feel free to add your suggestions!

 

I was hoping you'd tell me - I didn't collect during this period so much of this I've read now and have enjoyed it.

 

Y the last man I read straight through over 2 days. I had stopped buying Preacher as I got out of the hobby only read the first few issues and then never went back.

 

I just got a collection that had Planetary tpbs in it so I'll check it out.

 

I have started reading the vol 2 Spider-man Straczynski issues and so far so good (up to 500) but I think that's more modern than copper

 

heard good things about Morrison's Doom Patrol and Next X-Men but have yet to check those out

[jsilverjanet]

Marvel was doing interesting things at the time as well, but many will not see too much of a spike, I wouldn't think. They rebooted the main characters coming out of the Onslaught - Heroes Reborn (edit - maybe it was Heroes Return - i am getting old). The Iron Man and Cap were both very good. The Busiek/Perez Avengers was odd, great at times, weird at times. I liked the Jake Olsen Thor for the first 12 issues or so because of that evil Pantheon that was whupping Asgard's tail. I loved the Thunderbolts.

 

I wasn't reading Spider-Man. I didn't start reading the Hulk again until Bruce Jones took over. There were lots of other books that I didn't read - Reboots of Defenders, New Warriors, Nova etc. It was quite like the new 52 without the concerted effort.

 

The Black Panther series was good. I really liked the Mutant X book about Havok slipping into an alternate Universe where the X-Men were evil. Bernie Wrightson did a weird Punisher book where Frank Castle was killing for heaven. Marvel Boy was very interesting.

 

Marvel was publishing interesting books during this time frame, and they kept me interested until the rebooting after rebooting started in 2008 or so.

 

quoting this to save for later reading

[Lazyboy]

But he missed my point which was he broke out in the Marvel universe, not with collectors. In fact by the year 2000, the speculators had all but vanished from the comic scene, making almost any book that came out within those 10 years easy to obtain.

 

I didn't miss your point. You're using the term "broke out" in a way that is not common. This thread is about the value of individual books, not (necessarily) the popularity of characters. "Breaking out" means that a book has become more popular and desired than the books around it, and that desire has been recognized. Spiderman #252, for example, is "broken out" from #240-#260.

 

You're not understanding: the issue isn't whether or not Deadpool as a character is profitable for Marvel to publish him.

 

The issue is the specific value of his first appearance.

 

And, in that sense...that is, the value of his first appearance...Deadpool was forgotten for nearly 20 years.

 

I didn't say Deadpool, like Fatman, the Human Flying Saucer, drifted off into unpublished obscurity. It's simply that the demand for his first appearance simply didn't exist for the vast majority of his 24 years.

 

That's not true, it just wasn't off-the-charts nuts (like it is in the current rampant speculation phase) and didn't outweigh the large supply during the dark days and slow recovery phase. Many broken out books were also "worthless" during this time period, as I'm sure you know.

[RockMyAmadeus]

But he missed my point which was he broke out in the Marvel universe, not with collectors. In fact by the year 2000, the speculators had all but vanished from the comic scene, making almost any book that came out within those 10 years easy to obtain.

 

I didn't miss your point. You're using the term "broke out" in a way that is not common. This thread is about the value of individual books, not (necessarily) the popularity of characters. "Breaking out" means that a book has become more popular and desired than the books around it, and that desire has been recognized. Spiderman #252, for example, is "broken out" from #240-#260.

 

You're not understanding: the issue isn't whether or not Deadpool as a character is profitable for Marvel to publish him.

 

The issue is the specific value of his first appearance.

 

And, in that sense...that is, the value of his first appearance...Deadpool was forgotten for nearly 20 years.

 

I didn't say Deadpool, like Fatman, the Human Flying Saucer, drifted off into unpublished obscurity. It's simply that the demand for his first appearance simply didn't exist for the vast majority of his 24 years.

 

That's not true, it just wasn't off-the-charts nuts (like it is in the current rampant speculation phase) and didn't outweigh the large supply during the dark days and slow recovery phase. Many broken out books were also "worthless" during this time period, as I'm sure you know.

 

It didn't exist. Demand for the book was next to nothing. When runs of New Mutants are sold, with nothing noted about #98, for $30-$40, that's no demand. When runs of #91-100 (like JSComics did) are sold, with no special mention of #98, that's "no demand." When a book becomes "unbroken out", that's when the demand has disappeared.

 

A 9.8 sold for $40 in 2003. 9.6s could be bought for $25 or less (meaning, the threshold of "not worth slabbing") up until 2008. The record low price was $10.

 

That's "no demand." "So negligible as to not even be worth noting."

[awakeintheashes]

Because it's Monday and I laughed at this

[FutureFlash]

I remember back when NM 98 hit the stands, Deadpool wasn't that big of a deal, with most of people I knew. People were much more into New Mutants/X-force due to Liefeld being involved. I was shocked coming back to comics this year and finding out that Deadpool was huge.

 

As for other comics from the late 90's/early 00s gaining some steam. As RMA points out, print runs are pretty low, so the conditions are right if they get noticed at some point. Not much downside to buying quality runs for a dollar a book.

 

But I'm glad for this thread, I didn't even know about Ellis's Stormwatch, Authority and Planetary. That all happened as I was getting out of comics back then. And even better I can probably get 'em for a dollar too.

Edited September 29, 2014 by FutureFlash

[the authority]

I remember back when NM 98 hit the stands, Deadpool wasn't that big of a deal, with most of people I knew. People were much more into New Mutants/X-force due to Liefeld being involved. I was shocked coming back to comics this year and finding out that Deadpool was huge.

 

As for other comics from the late 90's/early 00s gaining some steam. As RMA points out, print runs are pretty low, so the conditions are right if they get noticed at some point. Not much downside to buying quality runs for a dollar a book.

 

But I'm glad for this thread, I didn't even know about Ellis's Stormwatch, Authority and Planetary. That all happened as I was getting out of comics back then. And even better I can probably get 'em for a dollar too.

 

 

You are in for a huge treat. I wish I could read these for the first time one more time. Ellis' run starts with Stormwatch #37 of Volume 1. It continues through the entirety of Stormwatch Volume 2 and it also includes Stormwatch/Aliens. It ends in The Authority Volume 1. I think Millar's run on The Authority should also be included. He closed out the first volume of the series. You will never look at superheroes the way after you read these books. The Authority and Planetary took liberties and shots at both Marvel's and DC's complacency imo.

 

The only thing I would add that you might want to read with these runs is Action Comics #775. It was DC's answer to how Superman stacks up against an Authority like group. Had his time come and gone or was he still relevant ? The Authority is my favorite series of all time but there is no question that Supes had his place even during that very tumultuous time.

[FutureFlash]

I remember back when NM 98 hit the stands, Deadpool wasn't that big of a deal, with most of people I knew. People were much more into New Mutants/X-force due to Liefeld being involved. I was shocked coming back to comics this year and finding out that Deadpool was huge.

 

As for other comics from the late 90's/early 00s gaining some steam. As RMA points out, print runs are pretty low, so the conditions are right if they get noticed at some point. Not much downside to buying quality runs for a dollar a book.

 

But I'm glad for this thread, I didn't even know about Ellis's Stormwatch, Authority and Planetary. That all happened as I was getting out of comics back then. And even better I can probably get 'em for a dollar too.

 

 

You are in for a huge treat. I wish I could read these for the first time one more time. Ellis' run starts with Stormwatch #37 of Volume 1. It continues through the entirety of Stormwatch Volume 2 and it also includes Stormwatch/Aliens. It ends in The Authority Volume 1. I think Millar's run on The Authority should also be included. He closed out the first volume of the series. You will never look at superheroes the way after you read these books. The Authority and Planetary took liberties and shots at both Marvel's and DC's complacency imo.

 

The only thing I would add that you might want to read with these runs is Action Comics #775. It was DC's answer to how Superman stacks up against an Authority like group. Had his time come and gone or was he still relevant ? The Authority is my favorite series of all time but there is no question that Supes had his place even during that very tumultuous time.

 

Thanks for the info. Looking forward to reading it.

[FutureFlash]

Because it's Monday and I laughed at this

 

Is that a mecha- dolphin?

[wardevil0]

I remember back when NM 98 hit the stands, Deadpool wasn't that big of a deal, with most of people I knew. People were much more into New Mutants/X-force due to Liefeld being involved. I was shocked coming back to comics this year and finding out that Deadpool was huge.

 

As for other comics from the late 90's/early 00s gaining some steam. As RMA points out, print runs are pretty low, so the conditions are right if they get noticed at some point. Not much downside to buying quality runs for a dollar a book.

 

But I'm glad for this thread, I didn't even know about Ellis's Stormwatch, Authority and Planetary. That all happened as I was getting out of comics back then. And even better I can probably get 'em for a dollar too.

 

 

You are in for a huge treat. I wish I could read these for the first time one more time. Ellis' run starts with Stormwatch #37 of Volume 1. It continues through the entirety of Stormwatch Volume 2 and it also includes Stormwatch/Aliens. It ends in The Authority Volume 1. I think Millar's run on The Authority should also be included. He closed out the first volume of the series. You will never look at superheroes the way after you read these books. The Authority and Planetary took liberties and shots at both Marvel's and DC's complacency imo.

 

The only thing I would add that you might want to read with these runs is Action Comics #775. It was DC's answer to how Superman stacks up against an Authority like group. Had his time come and gone or was he still relevant ? The Authority is my favorite series of all time but there is no question that Supes had his place even during that very tumultuous time.

 

Thanks for the info. Looking forward to reading it.

 

It's an amazing run that I wholeheartedly recommend, but it's WildC.A.T.S./Aliens (two covers, same story).