FF1 or Showcase 4...which is in 2nd place in the SA?

[gcwatson94]

Rfoiii, why did you delete your post? It's ok to admit when one is wrong about something.

 

I say collect what ever makes you happy.

 

My opinion remains the same, SC4 is more important than AF15 or FF1.

[gcwatson94]

All this talk, when in fact Incredible Hulk #1 is number two only to AF #15

 

That's what I said from the beginning

 

I guess we need to throw TOS 39, JIM 83, etc, in the mix since everyone is listing favorites.

Now that's an interesting one. I know at one point SC4 was considered the silver age book, with AF15 being second fiddle.

 

Is there any chance that TOS39 could overtake AF15? The movies have made him insanely popular, and he is a far more interesting character than spider-man.

[ComicConnoisseur]

If we're talking about importance, Showcase 4 > Fantastic Four 1 > Amazing Fantasy 15. Showcase 4 got the ball rolling for the Second Heroic Age and Fantastic Four 1 kicked off Stan Lee's Marvel Universe. Granted, Amazing Fantasy 15 is currently far and away the most popular comic of the three but that's not the same thing as the most important of the three.

 

FF #1 all the way! Not even close!

Sorry Flash fans, but FF # 1 revolutionized the comic book industry, while Showcase # 4 was on a par with that first Turok the Dinosaur appearance in Four Color Comics #596.

With DC, some DC fans seem to conveniently forget that Batman and Superman never went away.

Also Captain America came back in Young Men #24 (Dec. 1953) before Flash made his debut in Showcase 4, so I ain`t buying how important Showcase 4 was compared to FF #1.

Now I am not saying Showcase #4 wasn`t important, just it didn`t change comic books like FF#1 did.

I mean think about it FF #1 was Jack Kirby and Stan Lee`s beginning of the Marvel Revolution! Books and movie documentaries have been written and filmed about how Marvels importance was to the comic book industry. No one every wrote a book or filmed a documentary about Showcase #4.

It`s kind of like comparing who was more important to music in the 60s The Beatles or The Moody Blues. IMHO.

[ComicConnoisseur]

All this talk, when in fact Incredible Hulk #1 is number two only to AF #15

 

That's what I said from the beginning

 

I guess we need to throw TOS 39, JIM 83, etc, in the mix since everyone is listing favorites.

Now that's an interesting one. I know at one point SC4 was considered the silver age book, with AF15 being second fiddle.

 

Is there any chance that TOS39 could overtake AF15? The movies have made him insanely popular, and he is a far more interesting character than spider-man.

Could happen. I could see both Iron Man and Wolverine surpassing Spider-Man.

See Iron Man and Wolverine are continuing to evolve, while Spidey looks like he will always be stuck in high school or college. With the majority of older readership of 40 to 50 year old something's reading comic books that`s not good because they won`t be able to relate to Spidey`s teen angst anymore, so we could well see Iron Man and Wolverine surpass the old Webhead in popularity in the next decade.

Already the Iron Man movies are outgrossing Spider-Man at the box office now.

[Illustrious]

Wolverine will never surpass Spider-Man, he's been on a downward spiral since the 90's.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Wolverine will never surpass Spider-Man, he's been on a downward spiral since the 90's.

Ask me at this time next year.

I bet X-Men Days of Future Past will out perform The Amazing Spider-Man 2

at the box office and be rated higher by the critics.

btw I like Spider-Man, but change happens. Just like when at one time the Lone Ranger, Flash Gordon and Tarzan were more popular than Spider-Man.

Wolverine and Iron Man just translate better realistically in film to modern audiences than a guy swinging around New York in a costume.

What worked so well in the 1970s to 1990s might not work as well now with certain characters.

This doesn`t mean Spider-Man won`t stay popular, but I don`t expect him to keep up with the likes of Iron Man and Wolverine.

 

 

 

[Hepcat]

All this talk,when in fact Incredible Hulk #1 is number two only to AF #15.

 

No way. Fantastic Four 1 led to the Marvel Age of comics, while Incredible Hulk 1 lead to nothing but the cancellation of the title within a year.

 

 

Wolverine will never surpass Spider-Man, he's been on a downward spiral since the 90's.

 

I agree.

 

[Hepcat]

FF #1 all the way! Not even close!

 

Sorry Flash fans, but FF # 1 revolutionized the comic book industry, while Showcase # 4 was on a par with that first Turok the Dinosaur appearance in Four Color Comics #596.

 

 

With DC, some DC fans seem to conveniently forget that Batman and Superman never went away.

 

And you're forgetting that Showcase 4 soon led to the Justice League of America and if it hadn't been for the success of the Justice League of America comic about which DC's Jack Liebowitz bragged to Stan Lee during a golf game, Stan would not have rushed back to the office and created the Fantastic Four.

 

 

 

[Foxtrot70]

If we're talking about importance, Showcase 4 > Fantastic Four 1 > Amazing Fantasy 15. Showcase 4 got the ball rolling for the Second Heroic Age and Fantastic Four 1 kicked off Stan Lee's Marvel Universe. Granted, Amazing Fantasy 15 is currently far and away the most popular comic of the three but that's not the same thing as the most important of the three.

 

FF #1 all the way! Not even close!

Sorry Flash fans, but FF # 1 revolutionized the comic book industry, while Showcase # 4 was on a par with that first Turok the Dinosaur appearance in Four Color Comics #596.

With DC, some DC fans seem to conveniently forget that Batman and Superman never went away.

Also Captain America came back in Young Men #24 (Dec. 1953) before Flash made his debut in Showcase 4, so I ain`t buying how important Showcase 4 was compared to FF #1.

Now I am not saying Showcase #4 wasn`t important, just it didn`t change comic books like FF#1 did.

I mean think about it FF #1 was Jack Kirby and Stan Lee`s beginning of the Marvel Revolution! Books and movie documentaries have been written and filmed about how Marvels importance was to the comic book industry. No one every wrote a book or filmed a documentary about Showcase #4.

It`s kind of like comparing who was more important to music in the 60s The Beatles or The Moody Blues. IMHO.

 

+1 to the above and Hulk 181 is more historically important than SC #4

[BarryAllen]

"historically important" is getting thrown around a lot in this thread

 

 

 

Saying that the first appearance of Flash is more or less important that the first appearance of Wolverine is like saying Whoppers are more or less important than Big Macs.

 

 

 

"Importance" (historical or otherwise) is a driver of Demand. Supply and Demand determine pricing. Relative pricing is an indicator of value. Value is an indicator of importance. And so on...

[VintageComics]

"historically important" is getting thrown around a lot in this thread

 

 

 

Saying that the first appearance of Flash is more or less important that the first appearance of Wolverine is like saying Whoppers are more or less important than Big Macs.

 

 

 

"Importance" (historical or otherwise) is a driver of Demand. Supply and Demand determine pricing. Relative pricing is an indicator of value. Value is an indicator of importance. And so on...

 

Historically important now, looking back or historically important back in 1956?

 

Two different things that are getting mixed up IMO.

 

 

 

 

[Foxtrot70]

There was a time when Conan out shined Batman and Iron Man - then btw Miller Dark Knight and the first movie, Batman surged into the spot light, much like Iron Man in recent years. The ebb and flow of what is popular is always changing. Heck, it was the first dozen issues of Star Wars (77) that really hooked me on comics and collecting. As I discovered back issues it was early FF, Men, Spiderman that kept me reeled in... FF#1 was the king in my circle

[BarryAllen]

"historically important" is getting thrown around a lot in this thread

 

 

 

Saying that the first appearance of Flash is more or less important that the first appearance of Wolverine is like saying Whoppers are more or less important than Big Macs.

 

 

 

"Importance" (historical or otherwise) is a driver of Demand. Supply and Demand determine pricing. Relative pricing is an indicator of value. Value is an indicator of importance. And so on...

 

Historically important now, looking back or historically important back in 1956?

 

Two different things that are getting mixed up IMO.

 

 

 

 

Agreed. Also this.

[jjonahjameson1]

Fellas, this is the Original Poster's question:

 

"Curious to see what board reactions are to what book is the runner up in the Silver Age, FF1 or Showcase 4?

 

Showcase 4 has been red hot lately. FF1 is always in demand.

 

Thoughts?"

 

Note the question does not make mention of historical significance, past or present. That part always comes from DC collectors who have nothing else but to go on and on and on about the historical significance of Showcase 4 as the 1st Silver Age book.

 

Of course, they forget all of the Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman books published throughout the 50s.

 

Perhaps it was as big a deal as some say. I wasn't around with SC4, FF1, AF15, etc hit the newstands, candy stores, etc. However, I have been reading and collecting comics since the early 80s and to me, Showcase 4 generates as much excitement, has as much relevance to today's books, popularity, etc. as a mouse's fart.

 

Put your ear against the computer and wait for it...

 

 

[VintageComics]

Fellas, this is the Original Poster's question:

 

"Curious to see what board reactions are to what book is the runner up in the Silver Age, FF1 or Showcase 4?

 

Showcase 4 has been red hot lately. FF1 is always in demand.

 

Thoughts?"

 

But he doesn't qualify what he means for "runner up"?

 

Price, recent popularity, future popularity or popular back in a given era?

 

If it's a popularity contest, it's FF #1 hands down.

 

If it's the start of the Silver Age, that is going to be a transition leading from SC #4 to FF#1 - there is no single starting point of any era.

 

 

[jjonahjameson1]

Fellas, this is the Original Poster's question:

 

"Curious to see what board reactions are to what book is the runner up in the Silver Age, FF1 or Showcase 4?

 

Showcase 4 has been red hot lately. FF1 is always in demand.

 

Thoughts?"

 

But he doesn't qualify what he means for "runner up"?

Price, recent popularity, future popularity or popular back in a given era?

 

If it's a popularity contest, it's FF #1 hands down.

 

If it's the start of the Silver Age, that is going to be a transition leading from SC #4 to FF#1 - there is no single starting point of any era.

 

 

Exactly, Roy...I just realize I've expended a lot of time and effort trying to answer my interpretration of the OP's question. Still, it has been an entertaining and informative thread, and I did learn something new.

[VintageComics]

Exactly, Roy...I just realize I've expended a lot of time and effort trying to answer my interpretration of the OP's question. Still, it has been an entertaining and informative thread, and I did learn something new.

 

 

Yup. It's the same problem I always have with these debates. It's hard to look back into history, especially when there is no real documentation in our conversations and try to explain what happened back in '56 or '61

 

I suppose if someone had some sales numbers of books over the '55-'62 years, that might help understand what was actually happening at the time along with the first hand accounts.

 

[namisgr]

It's not a debate, but a solicitation for opinions. Mine is that FF #1 is the most important comic of the Silver Age. This opinion is neither subject to change, nor expected to change anyone else's.

[ComicConnoisseur]

FF #1 all the way! Not even close!

 

Sorry Flash fans, but FF # 1 revolutionized the comic book industry, while Showcase # 4 was on a par with that first Turok the Dinosaur appearance in Four Color Comics #596.

 

 

I could argue that Turok has went on to sell 6 million video game units and $250 million in sales worldwide do to the highly successful Turok videogame series, but I wouldn`t want to derail the thread.

 

The making of the highly successful Turok video game franchise.

[ChasingKingKirby]

FF #1 all the way! Not even close!

 

Sorry Flash fans, but FF # 1 revolutionized the comic book industry, while Showcase # 4 was on a par with that first Turok the Dinosaur appearance in Four Color Comics #596.

 

 

I could argue that Turok has went on to sell 6 million video game units and $250 million in sales worldwide do to the highly successful Turok videogame series, but I wouldn`t want to derail the thread.

 

The making of the highly successful Turok video game franchise.

 

Bad comparison, the first FF movie made more than that and it suuuucked...