fantastic_four Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Fox is trying to get the TV rights of the X-Men from Marvel. I think Marvel should ask for the F4 film rights and fair use of the X-Men franchise in exchange for the TV rights or no deal. Been suggesting something similar. Marvel allows FOX to add the "and live-action TV rights" to their X-Men contract. FOX agrees to a mutual termination of the FF rights contract. This gives Marvel back not only the FF, but Galactus, Doom, Surfer, Kang, Immortus, Anhilus and a few other big cosmic & ancient-being type characters. And a good number of the cool baddies. Not to mention, it also cleans up any potential lawsuits or gray area when it comes to the use of the Skrulls/Super-Skrull. That seems like a lot for Fox to give up. Doesn't sound realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 I remember FOX suing, but I thought that suit got tossed out & that's when the "FOX doesn't have the tv rights" thing got settled? Wikipedia says that Marvel settled. If Marvel thought they owned the rights, you'd think they'd just outright create an X-Men television show instead of doing that dumb Mutant X clone. That means there may be something in the contracts that makes it extra challenging to determine rights ownership. Maybe even that the method of creative delivery wasn't effectively spelled out to distinguish how much of its rights Marvel was passing on (e.g. movies on, TV shows only, movie and TV shows, online streaming). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doktor Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I remember FOX suing, but I thought that suit got tossed out & that's when the "FOX doesn't have the tv rights" thing got settled? Wikipedia says that Marvel settled. If Marvel thought they owned the rights, you'd think they'd just outright create an X-Men television show instead of doing that dumb Mutant X clone. I don't know if they wanted to get into the serious-budget (which is what an X-Men show would have been) TV show business back then. At least as the primary production studio. That show was pretty cheap on the effects, budget & sets, as well as being wholly new characters, Marvel likely saw it as a way to potentially market new characters. Plus, I don't know how far along the Marvel Studios project was at that point in development. I know it was early 00's tho & Marvel was enjoying doing cross-promotions with FOX at the time between the FOX movies and the Marvel comics. There wasn't nearly the kind of hostility that exists now. I don't really know tho & I think the truth of that lawsuit was probably both dumber and more complicated than "Marvel & FOX both thought they each had the rights to live-action tv X-Men or mutant shows" or "neither one exactly has the rights to do a live-action tv show" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 Fox Wants Live Action X-Men TV Series The television rights of the X-Men, like all superhero property rights sold off while Marvel was dancing with bankruptcy in 1996, are complex. That doesn’t mean that 20th Century Fox, who owns the movie rights to the X-Men and the Fantastic Four, will be stopped in their quest to cash in on the X-Men while they still have a Marvel Studios competitive world. Although the studio has the movie rights to the mutants of the popular comic series, the television rights still reside with Marvel where the X-Men have appeared in animated fare. The two companies previously fought it out in court when Marvel tried to produce a TV series called Mutant X in 2001 that Fox considered just an X-Men replacement show and a violation of their licensing agreement made in the ‘90s. Fox sued to stop production, Marvel counter-sued to start production but began negotiations, a settlement was reached, but Fox sued the other production companies involved in the show who in turn sued Marvel for misrepresenting themselves in the licensing agreement for the Mutant X characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageComics Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I suspect that right now they're circling the wagons and trying to make the best of what limited run this movie has. No sense in throwing in the towel while it's still in theaters.... There will definitely be another movie due to the fact they need to put one out at some point to retain the rights. They've got another 10 years now, so... Plus Fox and Marvel are bitter, bitter enemies now. Marvel isn't getting back anything for free from now on, and Fox will get nothing except a complete lack of cooperation from Marvel. Feige and the Fox execs have been in a state of all-out war for a few years now following various disagreements when they were negotiating over the Daredevil rights. Fox won't let Marvel use the word "mutant" in its films, Marvel killed off Wolverine in the comics last year in what some think is a move to do what it can to de-value the character, Marvel has expressly forbidden its writers from creating new mutant characters in the comics, and Marvel refuses to let ANYBODY create toys based upon Fox's films, including themselves. It looks bad. But you never know... It does look bad, but who has more market clout, Fox or Disney? A smart business person knows when to go up against someone and when to partner up with them. At this point, it's starting to look like it would be in Fox's favor to partner up with Marvel the way they did with Spidey...since Disney / Marvel hold most of the deck - from character rights, to movie making ability, to credibility to over all size. If anything, this FF movie has backed Fox a little deeper into the corner and empowered Disney / Marvel. At least to anybody with half a brain and a full wallet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doktor Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Fox is trying to get the TV rights of the X-Men from Marvel. I think Marvel should ask for the F4 film rights and fair use of the X-Men franchise in exchange for the TV rights or no deal. Been suggesting something similar. Marvel allows FOX to add the "and live-action TV rights" to their X-Men contract. FOX agrees to a mutual termination of the FF rights contract. This gives Marvel back not only the FF, but Galactus, Doom, Surfer, Kang, Immortus, Anhilus and a few other big cosmic & ancient-being type characters. And a good number of the cool baddies. Not to mention, it also cleans up any potential lawsuits or gray area when it comes to the use of the Skrulls/Super-Skrull. That seems like a lot for Fox to give up. Doesn't sound realistic. As the FF rights (at least for FOX) have been a losing proposition for FOX 2/3 of the time they've made use of them, and an X-Men tie-in TV show would at least make them some money, it might not be the worst deal for FOX. They could look at it as trading a property that has been a general loser for an opportunity to expand a generally winning property to other platforms that aren't accessible now. Marvel has the chance to play hardball again. Marvel won't lose anything if they stand pat or take a hardline negotiating position & strike out. If they ask for the FF contract to be terminated, the worst that happens is they hear "no" and respond with something along the lines of "ok, enjoy losing money on FF movies you keep screwing up while also not having an X-related TV show on the air. We're going to go mine our E-list for our next $500M movie. But if you decide that you want a money-making X-tv show & want to stop losing money because you don't know what you're doing with the FF, give us a call." They did it with DD and made out like a bandit. FOX only offered Galactus or the Surfer. Marvel said "both or you lose DD". FOX wouldn't give both so Marvel took DD, parlayed it into a big piece of their NETFLIX contract & the rest is future history. Marvel will likely do the exact same thing again. Use their leverage (the tv rights) into getting something big that they want. And if they fail, they don't lose anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageComics Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Who's going to win this dumb game of chicken? Disney / Marvel. I'm pretty sure their net worth is multiples of what Fox's is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageComics Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Fox is trying to get the TV rights of the X-Men from Marvel. I think Marvel should ask for the F4 film rights and fair use of the X-Men franchise in exchange for the TV rights or no deal. Been suggesting something similar. Marvel allows FOX to add the "and live-action TV rights" to their X-Men contract. FOX agrees to a mutual termination of the FF rights contract. This gives Marvel back not only the FF, but Galactus, Doom, Surfer, Kang, Immortus, Anhilus and a few other big cosmic & ancient-being type characters. And a good number of the cool baddies. Not to mention, it also cleans up any potential lawsuits or gray area when it comes to the use of the Skrulls/Super-Skrull. That seems like a lot for Fox to give up. Doesn't sound realistic. As the FF rights (at least for FOX) have been a losing proposition for FOX 2/3 of the time they've made use of them, and an X-Men tie-in TV show would at least make them some money, it might not be the worst deal for FOX. They could look at it as trading a property that has been a general loser for an opportunity to expand a generally winning property to other platforms that aren't accessible now. Marvel has the chance to play hardball again. Marvel won't lose anything if they stand pat or take a hardline negotiating position & strike out. If they ask for the FF contract to be terminated, the worst that happens is they hear "no" and respond with something along the lines of "ok, enjoy losing money on FF movies you keep screwing up while also not having an X-related TV show on the air. We're going to go mine our E-list for our next $500M movie. But if you decide that you want a money-making X-tv show & want to stop losing money because you don't know what you're doing with the FF, give us a call." They did it with DD and made out like a bandit. FOX only offered Galactus or the Surfer. Marvel said "both or you lose DD". FOX wouldn't give both so Marvel took DD, parlayed it into a big piece of their NETFLIX contract & the rest is future history. Marvel will likely do the exact same thing again. Use their leverage (the tv rights) into getting something big that they want. And if they fail, they don't lose anything. Yup. Marvel wins no matter what they do. It's just going to take some time for Fox to realize it. They either partner up with Marvel, sell the rights to Marvel or they continue to bleed while Marvel waits for the inevitable to happen anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelfangirl Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Fox is trying to get the TV rights of the X-Men from Marvel. I think Marvel should ask for the F4 film rights and fair use of the X-Men franchise in exchange for the TV rights or no deal. Been suggesting something similar. Marvel allows FOX to add the "and live-action TV rights" to their X-Men contract. FOX agrees to a mutual termination of the FF rights contract. This gives Marvel back not only the FF, but Galactus, Doom, Surfer, Kang, Immortus, Anhilus and a few other big cosmic & ancient-being type characters. And a good number of the cool baddies. Not to mention, it also cleans up any potential lawsuits or gray area when it comes to the use of the Skrulls/Super-Skrull. That seems like a lot for Fox to give up. Doesn't sound realistic. As the FF rights (at least for FOX) have been a losing proposition for FOX 2/3 of the time they've made use of them, and an X-Men tie-in TV show would at least make them some money, it might not be the worst deal for FOX. They could look at it as trading a property that has been a general loser for an opportunity to expand a generally winning property to other platforms that aren't accessible now. Marvel has the chance to play hardball again. Marvel won't lose anything if they stand pat or take a hardline negotiating position & strike out. If they ask for the FF contract to be terminated, the worst that happens is they hear "no" and respond with something along the lines of "ok, enjoy losing money on FF movies you keep screwing up while also not having an X-related TV show on the air. We're going to go mine our E-list for our next $500M movie. But if you decide that you want a money-making X-tv show & want to stop losing money because you don't know what you're doing with the FF, give us a call." They did it with DD and made out like a bandit. FOX only offered Galactus or the Surfer. Marvel said "both or you lose DD". FOX wouldn't give both so Marvel took DD, parlayed it into a big piece of their NETFLIX contract & the rest is future history. Marvel will likely do the exact same thing again. Use their leverage (the tv rights) into getting something big that they want. And if they fail, they don't lose anything. Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Werner von Doom, thanks for the detailed and excellent review. that sounds even worse than what I expected. Oy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Who's going to win this dumb game of chicken? Disney / Marvel. I'm pretty sure their net worth is multiples of what Fox's is. Fox is owned by the News Corporation, i.e. Rupert Murdoch. Calculating the net assets of that conglomerate and weighing it against Disney's is a tough thing to do. All I could really say is I have no idea except that Murdoch owns a bigger chunk of the planet's media than anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageComics Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Who's going to win this dumb game of chicken? Disney / Marvel. I'm pretty sure their net worth is multiples of what Fox's is. Fox is owned by the News Corporation, i.e. Rupert Murdoch. Calculating the net assets of that conglomerate and weighing it against Disney's is a tough thing to do. All I could really say is I have no idea except that Murdoch owns a bigger chunk of the planet's media than anyone else. I googled Rupert Murdoch net worth as $13BIL but Fox's net worth as $11BIL so not sure. Disney is apparently at about $74BIL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Marvel has the chance to play hardball again. Marvel won't lose anything if they stand pat or take a hardline negotiating position & strike out. If they ask for the FF contract to be terminated, the worst that happens is they hear "no" and respond with something along the lines of "ok, enjoy losing money on FF movies you keep screwing up while also not having an X-related TV show on the air. We're going to go mine our E-list for our next $500M movie. But if you decide that you want a money-making X-tv show & want to stop losing money because you don't know what you're doing with the FF, give us a call." They did it with DD and made out like a bandit. FOX only offered Galactus or the Surfer. Marvel said "both or you lose DD". FOX wouldn't give both so Marvel took DD, parlayed it into a big piece of their NETFLIX contract & the rest is future history. Marvel will likely do the exact same thing again. Use their leverage (the tv rights) into getting something big that they want. And if they fail, they don't lose anything. Yup. Marvel wins no matter what they do. It's just going to take some time for Fox to realize it. They either partner up with Marvel, sell the rights to Marvel or they continue to bleed while Marvel waits for the inevitable to happen anyway. Marvel should definitely play hardball, but Fox probably won't screw up FF forever. Is there any way to figure out how much Marvel makes from the Daredevil series on Netflix? I have no idea how much television shows make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageComics Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Werner von Doom, thanks for the detailed and excellent review. that sounds even worse than what I expected. Oy For those that read the Ultimate run of FF, do any of these story details line up with the movie? To me the only thing that is FF about this movie are the character names and some of the powers (I think even Sue's powers were modified slightly, weren't they?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Who's going to win this dumb game of chicken? Disney / Marvel. I'm pretty sure their net worth is multiples of what Fox's is. Fox is owned by the News Corporation, i.e. Rupert Murdoch. Calculating the net assets of that conglomerate and weighing it against Disney's is a tough thing to do. All I could really say is I have no idea except that Murdoch owns a bigger chunk of the planet's media than anyone else. I googled Rupert Murdoch net worth as $13BIL but Fox's net worth as $11BIL so not sure. Disney is apparently at about $74BIL. Now add the profits from this list of the hundreds of newspapers, magazines, radio stations, and television networks owned by News Corporation. That's what's staggering to calculate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_News_Corp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 Fox is trying to get the TV rights of the X-Men from Marvel. I think Marvel should ask for the F4 film rights and fair use of the X-Men franchise in exchange for the TV rights or no deal. Been suggesting something similar. Marvel allows FOX to add the "and live-action TV rights" to their X-Men contract. FOX agrees to a mutual termination of the FF rights contract. This gives Marvel back not only the FF, but Galactus, Doom, Surfer, Kang, Immortus, Anhilus and a few other big cosmic & ancient-being type characters. And a good number of the cool baddies. Not to mention, it also cleans up any potential lawsuits or gray area when it comes to the use of the Skrulls/Super-Skrull. That seems like a lot for Fox to give up. Doesn't sound realistic. As the FF rights (at least for FOX) have been a losing proposition for FOX 2/3 of the time they've made use of them, and an X-Men tie-in TV show would at least make them some money, it might not be the worst deal for FOX. They could look at it as trading a property that has been a general loser for an opportunity to expand a generally winning property to other platforms that aren't accessible now. Marvel has the chance to play hardball again. Marvel won't lose anything if they stand pat or take a hardline negotiating position & strike out. If they ask for the FF contract to be terminated, the worst that happens is they hear "no" and respond with something along the lines of "ok, enjoy losing money on FF movies you keep screwing up while also not having an X-related TV show on the air. We're going to go mine our E-list for our next $500M movie. But if you decide that you want a money-making X-tv show & want to stop losing money because you don't know what you're doing with the FF, give us a call." They did it with DD and made out like a bandit. FOX only offered Galactus or the Surfer. Marvel said "both or you lose DD". FOX wouldn't give both so Marvel took DD, parlayed it into a big piece of their NETFLIX contract & the rest is future history. Marvel will likely do the exact same thing again. Use their leverage (the tv rights) into getting something big that they want. And if they fail, they don't lose anything. Exactly That's the worst-case that could happen. OR, Marvel desires to roll out some of the stories that really made it stand out back in the 60's and 70's when it comes to key characters such a Galactus, Silver Surfer, the Skrulls, Mole Man, Dr. Doom and Impossible Man. So they figure out a way how to reach across and apply their new approach of creative partnership. All they have to do is point to Spider-Man and demonstrate examples of how fired up the market is to see Peter Parker in Civil War or Spectacular Spider-Man. The proof is very much there the demand this will drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageComics Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 four] Marvel should definitely play hardball, but Fox probably won't screw up FF forever. Fox may eventually get a good FF movie but how many bad movies will financiers, investors or fans allow before they stop buying into it. Or the general public? How many stinkers can a movie company put out before the general public gives up? Generally 1 or 2 bad movies is enough to bury a franchise for decades and Fox doesn't have that much time anymore. Not only do they have pressure to put out a good movie they have to make the general public and investors forget about 3 bad movies. That's business suicide. A smart investor is going to look at the clock, realize that now is the time to make a profit, not 10 years from now, and cash in. I could be wrong but that's how I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I suspect that right now they're circling the wagons and trying to make the best of what limited run this movie has. No sense in throwing in the towel while it's still in theaters.... There will definitely be another movie due to the fact they need to put one out at some point to retain the rights. They've got another 10 years now, so... Plus Fox and Marvel are bitter, bitter enemies now. Marvel isn't getting back anything for free from now on, and Fox will get nothing except a complete lack of cooperation from Marvel. Feige and the Fox execs have been in a state of all-out war for a few years now following various disagreements when they were negotiating over the Daredevil rights. Fox won't let Marvel use the word "mutant" in its films, Marvel killed off Wolverine in the comics last year in what some think is a move to do what it can to de-value the character, Marvel has expressly forbidden its writers from creating new mutant characters in the comics, and Marvel refuses to let ANYBODY create toys based upon Fox's films, including themselves. It looks bad. But you never know... It does look bad, but who has more market clout, Fox or Disney? A smart business person knows when to go up against someone and when to partner up with them. At this point, it's starting to look like it would be in Fox's favor to partner up with Marvel the way they did with Spidey...since Disney / Marvel hold most of the deck - from character rights, to movie making ability, to credibility to over all size. If anything, this FF movie has backed Fox a little deeper into the corner and empowered Disney / Marvel. At least to anybody with half a brain and a full wallet. Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageComics Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Now add the profits from this list of the hundreds of newspapers, magazines, radio stations, and television networks owned by News Corporation. That's what's staggering to calculate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_News_Corp I have been unable to find a list of total net worth but even if it's $100's of Billions, if Fox is 'only' an $11BIL company in a much larger portfolio and Disney is a $74BIL company and their primary focus is making comic book or fantasy movies (which is their primary focus as nothing else I can think of can generate $1BIL per business deal (AND have a proven track record AND continue to increase in market share over time) and they can make multiples at a time) then I don't see RM pouring millions or billions into a war of attrition on a long shot. I'd see smart money at either partnering up with Marvel and splitting profits or just selling for an obscene amount of money if Marvel plans to continue to starve out Fox. Had FF been a blockbuster hit things would be different but it isn't. It's a public disgrace, from drug abuse rumors to poor reviews to a financial loss. And it's the 3rd (relatively) bad movie for a franchise. In any case, no matter how I analyze it at this point Marvel has a highly successful track record, the clout to starve out Fox and they seem to basically hold all the cards. PS. I will say that I enjoyed seeing the 1st two FF movies but it was more blind fanboy romance than film quality. I waited decades for a Surfer movie, ever since Stan announced one coming in the 80's in a Bullpen Bulletin and then it never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Cataldo Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) OR, Marvel desires to roll out some of the stories that really made it stand out back in the 60's and 70's when it comes to key characters such a Galactus, Silver Surfer, the Skrulls, Mole Man, Dr. Doom and Impossible Man. I'd take that stupid asinine character off of that list. He appeared only twice from 1961 to 1976. I generally can't stand impish characters, so screw that noise. I'd put the Wizard, Thundra or Diablo in there instead as a "key" FF character. Add in Dragon Man & the Mad Thinker as well. Hell, The Brute and Darkoth are more important characters to the FF than Impossible Man is. Edited August 10, 2015 by Epic Peach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
