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THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB
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Started by HarveySwick,

14,484 posts in this topic

Sqeggs

Sqeggs

Posted
Posted
There are other examples of (Silver Age) blue labels with dried glue on the cover. So I think the whole comment on this being a QC issue by CGC should be revised.

 

Here's one:

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/amazing-fantasy-15-marvel-1962-cgc-vg-40-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/7152-91164.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515.

 

That is also likely a QC issue.

 

CGC slabs a lot of books. (thumbs u

 

As Vintagecomics keeps reiterating, ANY glue on a post-1950 book, regardless of perceived intent, is an automatic PLOD. Same goes with colour touch. Any SA book with "small amount of colour touch" on the label in a blue label has also slipped past QC (I have seen a handful of those as well).

 

-J.

 

Pretty sure that you're wrong on this. Color touch, yes. Glue, no. If you can show me where it says this anywhere on CGC's website, I would really like to know. It took ten seconds to find a half dozen examples in Heritage's archives on SA books. Consistently "small amount of dried glue" was blue label. No results were purple labels. And it spans back to as early as 2005.

 

(thumbs u

 

It's not that I particularly care one way or the other. But put yourself in the shoes of the buyer who just dropped 36 grand on his copy. That could've been his life savings and his holy grail once in a lifetime purchase, and you are on here saying it's tainted and it should be a purple label if not for CGC's QC dropping the ball. If I was him, I would be furious.

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/the-incredible-hulk-1-marvel-1962-cgc-vg-40-cream-to-off-white-pages-this-classic-first-issue-from-marvel-features-the/a/15092-17418.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 (Hulk 1, 2005)

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/the-avengers-1-marvel-1963-cgc-vg-40-off-white-to-white-pages/a/121620-13189.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 (Avengers 1, 2016)

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/superman-104-dc-1956-cgc-vf-nm-90-off-white-pages/a/7007-93320.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 (Superman 104, 2009)

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/the-flash-120-dc-1961-cgc-vf-85-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/110074-14260.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 (Flash 120, 2010)

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/wonder-woman-97-dc-1958-cgc-vf-75-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/110071-11419.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515 (Wonder Woman 97, 2010)

 

I understand what you are trying to say, and yes, if I look I can find examples of other QC problems with labels, ie, wrong titles and issue numbers, artist names mis-spelled, etc.

 

Feel free to contact CGC yourself to confirm. SA + Glue = PLOD. There's a reason why the book went for a third less than all other sales in grade this year. People knew what they were (or weren't) bidding on.

 

-J.

 

Occam's razor.

 

Scenario A: CGC's QC absolutely blows, and they consistently got it wrong. Every. Single. Time.

 

Scenario B: Small amount of dried glue is supposed to be a blue label, as every example shows.

 

You say A, I say B. I'll agree to disagree.

 

Okay I just called CGC and did confirm that, yes, glue on SA books are PLOD, 99.99999%, HOWEVER, if it is residual glue, having never served a restorative purpose (in the opinion of the grader), then ON VERY RARE OCCASION, they will still put it in a blue label, with glue notes.

 

This, of course, still isn't really going to help a book with that kind of notation, as glue notes on a SA book, because they are so uncommon, are a massive scarlet letter that will turn off many buyers, especially since you cannot remove glue (and thereby getting rid of the notation), without scraping the book and likely defacing/damaging it.

 

And as for all three of those DC books you linked with "glue on the spine", those DEFINITELY should be PLODs, and are in fact a QC oversight.

 

-J.

 

'Having never served a restorative purpose?" Meaning the kid was gluing together his Aurora model on top of a comic and some spilled? :D

 

From the significant number of these books I've seen, I think it would be more accurate to say that the book ends up in a blue label if the glue no longer serves a restorative purpose. That is, the small spine split or small tear it was sealing has opened back up.

 

My take from your conversation with CGC is that it confirms that the glue notations are not QC mistakes, but reflect their policy of sometimes putting SA books with glue in blue labels.

 

Whether the glue label notation is a "massive scarlet letter" that significantly reduces the value of the book is difficult for any of us to know without doing a more intensive analysis. I don't think inferences from one example are valid.

 

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showcase22gr1959

showcase22gr1959

Posted
Posted (edited)
CGC 8.5 up for grabs on Heritage

 

The voldy copy with a better scan this time. Going for a bundle more this time.

 

Below is the link:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/amazing-fantasy-15-marvel-1962-cgc-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/p/7158-1008.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

Edited by showcase22gr1959
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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

Posted
Posted
There are other examples of (Silver Age) blue labels with dried glue on the cover. So I think the whole comment on this being a QC issue by CGC should be revised.

 

Here's one:

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/amazing-fantasy-15-marvel-1962-cgc-vg-40-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/7152-91164.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515.

 

That is also likely a QC issue.

 

CGC slabs a lot of books. (thumbs u

 

As Vintagecomics keeps reiterating, ANY glue on a post-1950 book, regardless of perceived intent, is an automatic PLOD. Same goes with colour touch. Any SA book with "small amount of colour touch" on the label in a blue label has also slipped past QC (I have seen a handful of those as well).

 

-J.

 

Pretty sure that you're wrong on this. Color touch, yes. Glue, no. If you can show me where it says this anywhere on CGC's website, I would really like to know. It took ten seconds to find a half dozen examples in Heritage's archives on SA books. Consistently "small amount of dried glue" was blue label. No results were purple labels. And it spans back to as early as 2005.

 

(thumbs u

 

It's not that I particularly care one way or the other. But put yourself in the shoes of the buyer who just dropped 36 grand on his copy. That could've been his life savings and his holy grail once in a lifetime purchase, and you are on here saying it's tainted and it should be a purple label if not for CGC's QC dropping the ball. If I was him, I would be furious.

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/the-incredible-hulk-1-marvel-1962-cgc-vg-40-cream-to-off-white-pages-this-classic-first-issue-from-marvel-features-the/a/15092-17418.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 (Hulk 1, 2005)

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/the-avengers-1-marvel-1963-cgc-vg-40-off-white-to-white-pages/a/121620-13189.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 (Avengers 1, 2016)

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/superman-104-dc-1956-cgc-vf-nm-90-off-white-pages/a/7007-93320.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 (Superman 104, 2009)

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/the-flash-120-dc-1961-cgc-vf-85-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/110074-14260.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 (Flash 120, 2010)

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/wonder-woman-97-dc-1958-cgc-vf-75-cream-to-off-white-pages/a/110071-11419.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515 (Wonder Woman 97, 2010)

 

I understand what you are trying to say, and yes, if I look I can find examples of other QC problems with labels, ie, wrong titles and issue numbers, artist names mis-spelled, etc.

 

Feel free to contact CGC yourself to confirm. SA + Glue = PLOD. There's a reason why the book went for a third less than all other sales in grade this year. People knew what they were (or weren't) bidding on.

 

-J.

 

Occam's razor.

 

Scenario A: CGC's QC absolutely blows, and they consistently got it wrong. Every. Single. Time.

 

Scenario B: Small amount of dried glue is supposed to be a blue label, as every example shows.

 

You say A, I say B. I'll agree to disagree.

 

Okay I just called CGC and did confirm that, yes, glue on SA books are PLOD, 99.99999%, HOWEVER, if it is residual glue, having never served a restorative purpose (in the opinion of the grader), then ON VERY RARE OCCASION, they will still put it in a blue label, with glue notes.

 

This, of course, still isn't really going to help a book with that kind of notation, as glue notes on a SA book, because they are so uncommon, are a massive scarlet letter that will turn off many buyers, especially since you cannot remove glue (and thereby getting rid of the notation), without scraping the book and likely defacing/damaging it.

 

And as for all three of those DC books you linked with "glue on the spine", those DEFINITELY should be PLODs, and are in fact a QC oversight.

 

-J.

 

'Having never served a restorative purpose?" Meaning the kid was gluing together his Aurora model on top of a comic and some spilled? :D

 

From the significant number of these books I've seen, I think it would be more accurate to say that the book ends up in a blue label if the glue no longer serves a restorative purpose. That is, the small spine split or small tear it was sealing has opened back up.

 

My take from your conversation with CGC is that it confirms that the glue notations are not QC mistakes, but reflect their policy of sometimes putting SA books with glue in blue labels.

 

Whether the glue label notation is a "massive scarlet letter" that significantly reduces the value of the book is difficult for any of us to know without doing a more intensive analysis. I don't think inferences from one example are valid.

 

The evidence of glue notations affecting the final realized price on an SA book is prima facie. Particularly with Marvels (and especially AF 15's ) that are so common that there is no reason to settle for something like that at full FMV when it is, in fact, an aberration amongst SA books that are not already in PLOD holders.

 

-J.

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
CGC 8.5 up for grabs on Heritage

 

The voldy copy with a better scan this time. Going for a bundle more this time.

 

Below is the link:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/amazing-fantasy-15-marvel-1962-cgc-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/p/7158-1008.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

 

Looks like that copy wasn't brutally over graded like everyone said it was.

 

I thought it was in the ballpark.

 

Someone is going to make out like a bandit!

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showcase22gr1959

showcase22gr1959

Posted
Posted
CGC 8.5 up for grabs on Heritage

 

The voldy copy with a better scan this time. Going for a bundle more this time.

 

Below is the link:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/amazing-fantasy-15-marvel-1962-cgc-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/p/7158-1008.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

 

Looks like that copy wasn't brutally over graded like everyone said it was.

 

I thought it was in the ballpark.

 

Someone is going to make out like a bandit!

 

I've seen it SDCC before the auction in 8/16. The scan in the former voldy case didn't do it justice the first time around. As you said, someone is going to make out like a bandit "one of the greatest flip in less than an year" .

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peewee22

peewee22

Posted
Posted
CGC 8.5 up for grabs on Heritage

 

The voldy copy with a better scan this time. Going for a bundle more this time.

 

Below is the link:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/amazing-fantasy-15-marvel-1962-cgc-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/p/7158-1008.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

 

Looks like that copy wasn't brutally over graded like everyone said it was.

 

I thought it was in the ballpark.

 

Someone is going to make out like a bandit!

 

I've seen it SDCC before the auction in 8/16. The scan in the former voldy case didn't do it justice the first time around. As you said, someone is going to make out like a bandit "one of the greatest flip in less than an year" .

 

Here is the old scan (if we are allowed to look at Voldy books). The defects are more noticeable. There is light tanning on the upper back cover. The book is signed on the last page which means to me there is penned ink in the book. Still a very nice copy. Ending at 78k, someone is easily about to double their money.

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/amazing-fantasy-15-verified-signature-marvel-1962-cbcs-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7139-91159.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

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showcase22gr1959

showcase22gr1959

Posted
Posted (edited)
CGC 8.5 up for grabs on Heritage

 

The voldy copy with a better scan this time. Going for a bundle more this time.

 

Below is the link:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/amazing-fantasy-15-marvel-1962-cgc-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/p/7158-1008.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

 

Looks like that copy wasn't brutally over graded like everyone said it was.

 

I thought it was in the ballpark.

 

Someone is going to make out like a bandit!

 

I've seen it SDCC before the auction in 8/16. The scan in the former voldy case didn't do it justice the first time around. As you said, someone is going to make out like a bandit "one of the greatest flip in less than an year" .

 

Here is the old scan (if we are allowed to look at Voldy books). The defects are more noticeable. There is light tanning on the upper back cover. The book is signed on the last page which means to me there is penned ink in the book. Still a very nice copy. Ending at 78k, someone is easily about to double their money.

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/amazing-fantasy-15-verified-signature-marvel-1962-cbcs-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7139-91159.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

 

Seems very very light tanning there. Did you get the notes peewee22? Hulk 1 8.5 sold 132K, AF15 9.0 Voldy sold 237K...I think 150K at least is extremely possible.

Edited by showcase22gr1959
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showcase22gr1959

showcase22gr1959

Posted
Posted
I don't mean uncommon in existence (as it is typically used, like with gerber ratings).

 

My bad.

 

I meant uncommon in 'frequency that one comes up for sale.'

Compare to the rate of Hulk 1 8.0+ up for sale in the market place...AF15 in 8.0+ are offered less frequently, even though H1 is more scarce in those high grades.

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peewee22

peewee22

Posted
Posted
CGC 8.5 up for grabs on Heritage

 

The voldy copy with a better scan this time. Going for a bundle more this time.

 

Below is the link:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/amazing-fantasy-15-marvel-1962-cgc-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/p/7158-1008.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

 

Looks like that copy wasn't brutally over graded like everyone said it was.

 

I thought it was in the ballpark.

 

Someone is going to make out like a bandit!

 

I've seen it SDCC before the auction in 8/16. The scan in the former voldy case didn't do it justice the first time around. As you said, someone is going to make out like a bandit "one of the greatest flip in less than an year" .

 

Here is the old scan (if we are allowed to look at Voldy books). The defects are more noticeable. There is light tanning on the upper back cover. The book is signed on the last page which means to me there is penned ink in the book. Still a very nice copy. Ending at 78k, someone is easily about to double their money.

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/amazing-fantasy-15-verified-signature-marvel-1962-cbcs-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7139-91159.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

 

Seems very very light tanning there. Did you get the notes peewee22? Hulk 1 8.5 sold 132K, AF15 9.0 Voldy sold 237K...I think 150K at least is extremely possible.

 

Did not get the notes. Just stating what I see.

 

The Voldy label says signed on last page. Unless it was removed it is still there.

 

Very nice copy though.

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showcase22gr1959

showcase22gr1959

Posted
Posted (edited)
CGC 8.5 up for grabs on Heritage

 

The voldy copy with a better scan this time. Going for a bundle more this time.

 

Below is the link:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/amazing-fantasy-15-marvel-1962-cgc-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/p/7158-1008.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

 

Looks like that copy wasn't brutally over graded like everyone said it was.

 

I thought it was in the ballpark.

 

Someone is going to make out like a bandit!

 

I've seen it SDCC before the auction in 8/16. The scan in the former voldy case didn't do it justice the first time around. As you said, someone is going to make out like a bandit "one of the greatest flip in less than an year" .

 

Here is the old scan (if we are allowed to look at Voldy books). The defects are more noticeable. There is light tanning on the upper back cover. The book is signed on the last page which means to me there is penned ink in the book. Still a very nice copy. Ending at 78k, someone is easily about to double their money.

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/amazing-fantasy-15-verified-signature-marvel-1962-cbcs-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7139-91159.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

 

Seems very very light tanning there. Did you get the notes peewee22? Hulk 1 8.5 sold 132K, AF15 9.0 Voldy sold 237K...I think 150K at least is extremely possible.

 

Did not get the notes. Just stating what I see.

 

The Voldy label says signed on last page. Unless it was removed it is still there.

 

Very nice copy though.

 

Okay. (thumbs u I bet a clean nice autograph by Stan...At least not on the interior cover or outside cover. Not talking down Signature Series. I agree nice copy.

Edited by showcase22gr1959
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