THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB 39 39

[Sweet Lou 14]

11 minutes ago, Spiderturtle said:

debate of mc(up to 40 percent discount) vs non mc (Max Value potential)

This is an important part of why I feel OK with my copy, which has no MC.  I definitely have a "nice" 5.0, and I think the way the market is going, variations in eye appeal and desirability within a given grade become increasingly important as prices escalate.

[Spiderturtle]

40 minutes ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

This is an important part of why I feel OK with my copy, which has no MC.  I definitely have a "nice" 5.0, and I think the way the market is going, variations in eye appeal and desirability within a given grade become increasingly important as prices escalate.

I would feel good if I had a nice non mc 5.0; who knows how much more variation there would be moving forward in the mc vs non mc

[Spiderturtle]

15 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Well, it's official, the end of the world as we know it. The Universal 6.0 OW on Clink just hammered at 44K . I know, the book had some MC but still, that's a weak price. 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/superhero/amazing-fantasy-15-marvel-1962-cgc-fn-60-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7177-91280.s?ic3=ViewItem-Inventory-BuyNowFromOwner-PreviousPricesHeritage-081514

no mc 6.0 $59.2

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/superhero/amazing-fantasy-15-marvel-1962-cgc-fn-60-off-white-pages/a/7169-91007.s?ic3=ViewItem-Auction-Archive-PreviousPricesHeritage-081514

mc 6.0 $45.4k

a couple of months apart; less than 6 months ago data points

[zhamlau]

Again, its chunks of the cover torn off the book...on what level can it be "fine"?!? its like 5-6% of the cover missing because of wear...how is that fine?

If i took a normal fine copy, and decided I REALLY don't like that corner and just rip it off....the book would drop to like 4.5 Yet when its a product of some supposed (and poorly defined) "printing error" somehow it gets the pass and barely effects the grade. Most of these chipped books, if you put the chips back and gave the pieces the average wear the rest of the book has...they would be in the same condition range.

A book with Marvel chipping (and again, not one chip but running up and down a side or two) should never go above 4.5 IMO OR go green label and given the grade they get now. Its huge damage, and the buyers rightly treat it accordingly.

[peewee22]

11 hours ago, VintageComics said:

People didn't care about it as much when they didn't care about the value of their books.

Now everyone scrutinizes everything.

Honestly, collectors do consider MC. The prices are so out of whack that bargains do exist in the slabs. My comments about MC was not to dissuade anyone or degrade a specific book. Heck the first Spidey 1 that I purchased in '86 from a vintage record dealer in S.A., TX had chipping on the edge otherwise a pretty book. Adored it. Cost $750 when Overstreet was a grand (I think). Once upgrading starts it seems you "second guess" these flaws. 

[VintageComics]

1 minute ago, peewee22 said:

Honestly, collectors do consider MC.

Not to the same level that they do today, but they can because the internet offers more to choose from and price escalations make buyers more picky.

30 minutes ago, zhamlau said:

Again, its chunks of the cover torn off the book...on what level can it be "fine"?!? its like 5-6% of the cover missing because of wear...how is that fine?

If i took a normal fine copy, and decided I REALLY don't like that corner and just rip it off....the book would drop to like 4.5 Yet when its a product of some supposed (and poorly defined) "printing error" somehow it gets the pass and barely effects the grade. Most of these chipped books, if you put the chips back and gave the pieces the average wear the rest of the book has...they would be in the same condition range.

A book with Marvel chipping (and again, not one chip but running up and down a side or two) should never go above 4.5 IMO OR go green label and given the grade they get now. Its huge damage, and the buyers rightly treat it accordingly.

CGC has always treated production flaws with less weight than handling flaws, and the reason they do it is obvious - they want to keep submitters submitting so they have to find a balance between pleasing sellers and buyers.

1 hour ago, Spiderturtle said:

who knows how much more variation there would be moving forward in the mc vs non mc

It's not shooting darts blind.

You've not going to have 6.0 books with chipping selling for 2.0 unchipped prices.

At some point the market will stabilize enough to develop some sort of formula, as always happens.

 

[Bomber-Bob]

54 minutes ago, zhamlau said:

Again, its chunks of the cover torn off the book...on what level can it be "fine"?!? its like 5-6% of the cover missing because of wear...how is that fine?

 

I totally agree. While I understand why CGC allows MC as BIndery, I think it leads to gaming the system = trying to fool CGC into thinking every chip is bindery. Got a corner ding, clip it off and see if CGC let's it pass for a MC. Got a tiny edge tear, clip it off . This stuff is being done, it's exploitation, it's a loophole. Years ago, CGC decided to allow pressing because they said they couldn't always detect it. IMO, same thing goes here. I don't like it. 

[Dark Knight]

Glad I sold my CGC 4.0 chipped copy for $35k last summer 

[Bomber-Bob]

I just noticed, in the ComicConnect auction on Monday evening, a Universal 6.0 AF15 with White Pages sold for 46.8K.  Back to back 6.0 sales.

[Mr bla bla]

15 minutes ago, Dark Knight said:

Glad I sold my CGC 4.0 chipped copy for $35k last summer 

I have never had a problem with Chips. Heck I like'em (especially with barbecue dip)

[blazingbob]

26 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I totally agree. While I understand why CGC allows MC as BIndery, I think it leads to gaming the system = trying to fool CGC into thinking every chip is bindery. Got a corner ding, clip it off and see if CGC let's it pass for a MC. Got a tiny edge tear, clip it off . This stuff is being done, it's exploitation, it's a loophole. Years ago, CGC decided to allow pressing because they said they couldn't always detect it. IMO, same thing goes here. I don't like it. 

Bob, I'm not exactly sure that is CGC's interpretation of what a bindery chip is.  Clipping it off doesn't seem to to warrant it automatically being assumed to be a bindery chip.

[Bomber-Bob]

Just now, blazingbob said:

Bob, I'm not exactly sure that is CGC's interpretation of what a bindery chip is.  Clipping it off doesn't seem to to warrant it automatically being assumed to be a bindery chip.

You're right, there is no guarantee CGC will regard it as a MC, but the gamers will try. 

[zhamlau]

57 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I just noticed, in the ComicConnect auction on Monday evening, a Universal 6.0 AF15 with White Pages sold for 46.8K.  Back to back 6.0 sales.

Again, Heavy chipping. Its just limited with it, should be like a 4.5-5.0 best case with that chipping even with exceptional page quality and good color. It doesn't look good on your social media post, its not gonna sell for top dollar.

[Spiderturtle]

19 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Well, it's official, the end of the world as we know it. The Universal 6.0 OW on Clink just hammered at 44K . I know, the book had some MC but still, that's a weak price. 

I would argue that 6.0 with mc at around $45k is a strong price.  Huge risk trying to resell down the road

[lou_fine]

8 hours ago, drbanner said:

20 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Well, it's official, the end of the world as we know it. The Universal 6.0 OW on Clink just hammered at 44K . I know, the book had some MC but still, that's a weak price. 

Wow, that's more than $10K less than 5.0's were selling for last year. 

Well, not quite the same thing since you are most likely referring to the CGC 5.0 copies with no Marvel chipping and which also presented much better than their assigned 5.0 grade.  It's becoming quite apparent that how the book presents relative to its assigned grade is becoming a key determinant in the final price for many of these early SA Marvel keys.

With this Marvel chipped CGC 6.0 graded copy also selling for $46,803:

https://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=772380

it looks like the Universal 6.0 copy that just sold on CL is right in the ball park.

 

[lou_fine]

4 hours ago, Dark Knight said:

Glad I sold my CGC 4.0 chipped copy for $35k last summer 

Probably so, when this CGC 4.0 graded copy with no Marvel chipping managed to fetched only $24K in yesterday's CC auction:

https://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=768336

[234wallst]

1 minute ago, lou_fine said:

Probably so, when this CGC 4.0 graded copy with no Marvel chipping managed to fetched only $24K in yesterday's CC auction:

https://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=768336

I'm sure the large initials in marker and pen above Spidey's head had quite a bit to do with the low price here.  But having said that it seems the book is trending down a bit recently.

[peewee22]

Someone mentioned earlier this thread can impact potential sales of AF15. I agree with that. This thread is THE talk show for AF15s. Collectors, buyers, sellers, speculators, study this thread.

No where else in the world can you lean more about the book than in THIS thread.  Happy posting. 

[VintageComics]

24 minutes ago, peewee22 said:

Someone mentioned earlier this thread can impact potential sales of AF15. I agree with that. This thread is THE talk show for AF15s. Collectors, buyers, sellers, speculators, study this thread.

No where else in the world can you lean more about the book than in THIS thread.  Happy posting. 

In my opinion, there is currently an over reaction to Marvel chipping based largely on the discussions in this thread.

There is fear and people are afraid of buying a chipped copy because of it (or at least paying equal money to a chipped copy).

This exaggeration happens when people only think about long term investment. It's unfortunate.

I think eventually it will settle down as it doesn't make sense for a chipped 6.0 to sell for less than an unchipped 5.0 or 5.5, does it?

 

[peewee22]

2 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

In my opinion, there is currently an over reaction to Marvel chipping based largely on the discussions in this thread.

There is fear and people are afraid of buying a chipped copy because of it (or at least paying equal money to a chipped copy).

This exaggeration happens when people only think about long term investment. It's unfortunate.

I think eventually it will settle down as it doesn't make sense for a chipped 6.0 to sell for less than an unchipped 5.0 or 5.5, does it?

 

Again, it depends on the severity level. Did you see the 5.0 posted a few pages ago? I'd probably take that book over a chipped 6.0. Aesthetics, aesthetics, aesthetics...how the book appears to you and me.