Flex Mentallo Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Jeff, Have you had to purchases any PGX graded books and resubmit them to CGC? If so, do you have any data on how PGX's grades stood up against CGC's grade? Not many. The biggest issue I've had on the 10 or so I've had regraded was page quality. CGC is much more likely to give something a LT/OW or Slightly Brittle when PGX called it OW/W or C/OW. I've had at least four where this happened. If the PQ isn't bad, then I've gotten grades that were comparable. As with CGC slabs, I had some pressed when they were resubmitted and they can get a similar grade bump. I don't believe PGX is as hard on stains as CGC. I seem to recall that the PGX Jumbos I sold you had this PQ issue, and that you only achieved equivalent CGC grade after pressing in a number of cases. I'm not sure there was even a single book that CGC graded higher than PGX even after pressing. And that was out of 20 or 30 books if I'm not mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat-Man_America Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Am I reading this right? Heritage's raw grading most closely mirrors CGC? Yes, Heritage is pretty good at it. Heritage has undergraded every book I have bought from them per CGC. Sample size is not huge, but it makes swallowing the tax/fees easier. Upon reflection, the guy on the right (to my left) might have something to do with that mirror... Fuzzy logic perhaps, but I'm pretty sure Steve helps provide that consistency for Heritage. (thumbs u The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheetah Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 You mention that there were books excluded from the survey because had unadvertised restoration or some other significant problem pointed out by Matt Nelson. Is there a possibility of other selection bias due to you not even ordering a book because you believed from the scan that it was over-graded? I think the way I did this should give every dealer the most benefit of the doubt by elevating their grading skills. Pressing should make it higher. Removing the worst books before grading should make it better. I even provide a value removing the worst book they had graded. This obviously tells something about how much more strict CGC is than most dealers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheetah Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Jeff, Have you had to purchases any PGX graded books and resubmit them to CGC? If so, do you have any data on how PGX's grades stood up against CGC's grade? Not many. The biggest issue I've had on the 10 or so I've had regraded was page quality. CGC is much more likely to give something a LT/OW or Slightly Brittle when PGX called it OW/W or C/OW. I've had at least four where this happened. If the PQ isn't bad, then I've gotten grades that were comparable. As with CGC slabs, I had some pressed when they were resubmitted and they can get a similar grade bump. I don't believe PGX is as hard on stains as CGC. I seem to recall that the PGX Jumbos I sold you had this PQ issue, and that you only achieved equivalent CGC grade after pressing in a number of cases. I'm not sure there was even a single book that CGC graded higher than PGX even after pressing. And that was out of 20 or 30 books if I'm not mistaken. Yes, there were some heartbreakers in that bunch. The #15 in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheetah Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Am I reading this right? Heritage's raw grading most closely mirrors CGC? Yes, Heritage is pretty good at it. Heritage has undergraded every book I have bought from them per CGC. Sample size is not huge, but it makes swallowing the tax/fees easier. Upon reflection, the guy on the right (to my left) might have something to do with that mirror... Of coarse, I'm a little fuzzy not that or at least I was at that moment in time. Interesting that you say that. At a con, when asking for help on a book I thought might have PQ issues, Steve told me it was fine. I bought it as an 8.0 and it came back a 3.5 with slightly brittle pages. I won't be asking for help again . The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazingbob Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I could be wrong on this but I don't think Steve is doing the raw grading at heritage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timely Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I could be wrong on this but I don't think Steve is doing the raw grading at heritage. He is doing some of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat-Man_America Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Am I reading this right? Heritage's raw grading most closely mirrors CGC? Yes, Heritage is pretty good at it. Heritage has undergraded every book I have bought from them per CGC. Sample size is not huge, but it makes swallowing the tax/fees easier. Upon reflection, the guy on the right (to my left) might have something to do with that mirror... Fuzzy logic perhaps, but I'm pretty sure Steve helps provide that consistency for Heritage. (thumbs u Interesting that you say that. At a con, when asking for help on a book I thought might have PQ issues, Steve told me it was fine. I bought it as an 8.0 and it came back a 3.5 with slightly brittle pages. I won't be asking for help again . Wow! I'm not sure what happened there, but I'm pretty sure that Steve is directly involved in the grading of raw books for Heritage auctions. Jeff, I think you should send him a PM to discuss this given your disappointment and the wide discrepancy. Also, getting knocked down to 3.5 on PQ for slightly brittle seems seems a bit harsh given the fact that it was sold as an 8.0 and must've appeared that way to you at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjum12 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 ..... to verify.... this graph indicates that Metropolis overgrades on the average by less than a half an increment ? If so, that's not so bad. I order books from them.... and while usually in the mid grade range, I've been happy enough to keep going back. GOD BLESS... -jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqeggs Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Very interesting and useful. I have to say, I'm surprised at how poorly Harley does -- maybe I'm the only one to be surprised! I've found his grading to be reasonably accurate. Perhaps he is ok in the 6.0 - 9.0 range, where I'm mostly buying, and off in the higher grade ranges -- assuming most of the books involved here were (or he claimed them to be!) in the higher grades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheetah Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 ..... to verify.... this graph indicates that Metropolis overgrades on the average by less than a half an increment ? If so, that's not so bad. I order books from them.... and while usually in the mid grade range, I've been happy enough to keep going back. GOD BLESS... -jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u Yes, I can post the actual numbers when I get back to my office. Overall, their grading is consistent and the reasons for there over grading are consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBedrock Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 The one thing these graphs show me is that I don't sell you enough raw books. I wish I had more nice stuff that you needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt_Flanagan-migration Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Jerry Stephan does the raw grading at heritage (or at least he used to). a scatter plot would have been more beneficial in this presentation. for two reasons: a) you wouldn't need to compute the standard dev. by hand; you'd simply insert a lin reg. and you'd have your formula. the stan. dev would tell you how closely one dealer grades in comparison to another. b) one could use that formula and then they would be able to determine the probability of buying a book out of this pool and the chances of it being under or over graded. which could actual be quite useful if planning on submitting to CGC in the future. I could be wrong on this but I don't think Steve is doing the raw grading at heritage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjum12 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Very interesting and useful. I have to say, I'm surprised at how poorly Harley does -- maybe I'm the only one to be surprised! I've found his grading to be reasonably accurate. Perhaps he is ok in the 6.0 - 9.0 range, where I'm mostly buying, and off in the higher grade ranges -- assuming most of the books involved here were (or he claimed them to be!) in the higher grades. I'm primarily a 5.0 to 8.0 collector and have always found Harley to be pretty fair.....but then, I'm not submitting a lot of books to CGC. GOD BLESS... -jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat-Man_America Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 The one thing these graphs show me is that I don't sell you enough raw books. I wish I had more nice stuff that you needed. Folks are intimidated enough by your slabbed books, ...raw Bedrock might be too much for 'em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjum12 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 The one thing these graphs show me is that I don't sell you enough raw books. I wish I had more nice stuff that you needed. Folks are intimidated enough by your slabbed books, ...raw Bedrock might be too much for 'em! ..... they probably WOOD ..... GOD BLESS.... -jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheetah Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Jerry Stephan does the raw grading at heritage (or at least he used to). a scatter plot would have been more beneficial in this presentation. for two reasons: a) you wouldn't need to compute the standard dev. by hand; you'd simply insert a lin reg. and you'd have your formula. the stan. dev would tell you how closely one dealer grades in comparison to another. b) one could use that formula and then they would be able to determine the probability of buying a book out of this pool and the chances of it being under or over graded. which could actual be quite useful if planning on submitting to CGC in the future. I could be wrong on this but I don't think Steve is doing the raw grading at heritage. Too bad I don't have one more variable. As is, I am planning on doing a bar chart for each dealer. And, FWIW, excel calculates the statistics, I've just got to compile a few databases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheetah Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Very interesting and useful. I have to say, I'm surprised at how poorly Harley does -- maybe I'm the only one to be surprised! I've found his grading to be reasonably accurate. Perhaps he is ok in the 6.0 - 9.0 range, where I'm mostly buying, and off in the higher grade ranges -- assuming most of the books involved here were (or he claimed them to be!) in the higher grades. I'm primarily a 5.0 to 8.0 collector and have always found Harley to be pretty fair.....but then, I'm not submitting a lot of books to CGC. GOD BLESS... -jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u No trying to be a to a dealer, but I find people grade better when they take the books out of the mylar. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheetah Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 The one thing these graphs show me is that I don't sell you enough raw books. I wish I had more nice stuff that you needed. You don't sell me enough books...period. I do look at your web site but expect I'd be better served going to a con you were attending. I haven't been to any of those in 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheetah Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Here are the Average GI for each dealer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
