Shouldn't a CGC 9.8 off-white pages be more desirable than 9.8 white pages?

[James J]

Shouldn't a CGC 9.8 Off-White to White pages be more desirable than CGC 9.8 White pages due to both having the same grade,rather than being considered less by most collectors? Wouldn't this imply the Off-White to White page copy would grade higher if it did in fact have white pages?

 

 

[DrWatson]

Shouldn't a CGC 9.8 Off-White to White pages be more desirable than CGC 9.8 White pages due to both having the same grade,rather than being considered less by most collectors? Wouldn't this imply the Off-White to White page copy would grade higher if it did in fact have white pages?

Actually, the CGC shouldn't even note page quality on the label at all unless it actually factors into the assigned grade as their page quality designations are mercurial at best.

 

If I may be the lone voice of disagreement here, the fact that it's not factored into the grade is exactly why they should annotate the page quality. Otherwise how do you know if a book has nice, white pages or cream? It's not like you can open it.

Resub a book with cream pages and have it come back with white pages and then ask me this question again.

[conditionfreak]

Balham's Finest,

The reason I bring it up is because I'm seeing more & more people wanting white pages over off-white pages for the same grade. To counter their thinking I would think off-white would be more desirable because it has the same grade despite having a lower page quality.

 

As I stated before, I don't personally care about page quality just the grade.

 

Okay, I will try to explain this one more time.

 

So....a CGC 9.8 with cream pages would be even better.

 

You're actually not explaining anything, you're asking me a question without a question mark at the end, but you're definitely not explaining anything with your above comment . I have never seen a 9.8 with cream pages.

 

It's very simple, if 2 cgc books have the same grade but one has a lower page quality & still grades out the same as the one with white pages there should be no reason someone would prefer the one with white pages. Which is what people are doing. If page quality has no bearing, then CGC shouldn't put it on the label where people would think it matters so much to pay more for white over off-white.

 

Okay. I will re-explain what others and myself have already explained.

 

First of all. I wasn't asking a question. I was "thinking". Being absurd to make a point. Hence the thinker at the end of my sentence.

 

Now to the explanation that has already been explained to you.

 

That number in the upper left hand corner of a CGC slabbed book (the grade given by CGC), has NOTHING to do with page whiteness or lack thereof.

 

The reason that page whiteness is notated on a label, is BECAUSE it has nothing to do with the given grade. They are two separate things. One is the structural grade of the paper, and the other is the color of the paper. Structural condition and color are not the same thing. Perhaps they should be, but they are not at this time.

 

Page whiteness (or lack thereof) and the "grade" given to a book. Are two separate things. Hence why they are both annotated on the label. Instead of just having a grade and nothing else.

 

Two separate things. Not a joint thing.

[USArmyParatrooper]

Shouldn't a CGC 9.8 Off-White to White pages be more desirable than CGC 9.8 White pages due to both having the same grade,rather than being considered less by most collectors? Wouldn't this imply the Off-White to White page copy would grade higher if it did in fact have white pages?

Actually, the CGC shouldn't even note page quality on the label at all unless it actually factors into the assigned grade as their page quality designations are mercurial at best.

 

If I may be the lone voice of disagreement here, the fact that it's not factored into the grade is exactly why they should annotate the page quality. Otherwise how do you know if a book has nice, white pages or cream? It's not like you can open it.

Resub a book with cream pages and have it come back with white pages and then ask me this question again.

 

Do you have an example of a previous cream coming back as white?

[Jiminy_Cricket-migration]

Balham's Finest,

The reason I bring it up is because I'm seeing more & more people wanting white pages over off-white pages for the same grade. To counter their thinking I would think off-white would be more desirable because it has the same grade despite having a lower page quality.

 

As I stated before, I don't personally care about page quality just the grade.

 

What you're not understanding is the page quality (as it pertains to whiteness) has no effect on the numeric grade. To borrow a common coin phrase, the pages simply have more eye appeal (assuming you prefer white pages).

 

This thread is racist.

[Dr. Balls]

I say we all get drunk and talk about PQ!

 

[Mumford's Comics]

Balham's Finest,

The reason I bring it up is because I'm seeing more & more people wanting white pages over off-white pages for the same grade. To counter their thinking I would think off-white would be more desirable because it has the same grade despite having a lower page quality.

 

As I stated before, I don't personally care about page quality just the grade.

 

Okay, I will try to explain this one more time.

 

So....a CGC 9.8 with cream pages would be even better.

 

You're actually not explaining anything, you're asking me a question without a question mark at the end, but you're definitely not explaining anything with your above comment . I have never seen a 9.8 with cream pages.

 

It's very simple, if 2 cgc books have the same grade but one has a lower page quality & still grades out the same as the one with white pages there should be no reason someone would prefer the one with white pages. Which is what people are doing. If page quality has no bearing, then CGC shouldn't put it on the label where people would think it matters so much to pay more for white over off-white.

 

Okay. I will re-explain what others and myself have already explained.

 

First of all. I wasn't asking a question. I was "thinking". Being absurd to make a point. Hence the thinker at the end of my sentence.

 

Now to the explanation that has already been explained to you.

 

That number in the upper left hand corner of a CGC slabbed book (the grade given by CGC), has NOTHING to do with page whiteness or lack thereof.

 

The reason that page whiteness is notated on a label, is BECAUSE it has nothing to do with the given grade. They are two separate things. One is the structural grade of the paper, and the other is the color of the paper. Structural condition and color are not the same thing. Perhaps they should be, but they are not at this time.

 

Page whiteness (or lack thereof) and the "grade" given to a book. Are two separate things. Hence why they are both annotated on the label. Instead of just having a grade and nothing else.

 

Two separate things. Not a joint thing.

 

How many 9.8 cream pages have you seen? Give me a number. How many moderns with a 9.9 or 10.0 with cream pages for that matter? Tell me again how page quality doesn't matter.

 

Just because the CGC company line says one thing, doesn't mean they actually abide by it. They (CGC) are humans, there is no way they can accurately grade the massive amounts of books they get a daily basis 52 weeks a year. I have resubmitted many books & gotten back vastly differing grades & page quaities on the same book. To think they wouldn't do something just because they claim they don't is just naive.

[Jiminy_Cricket-migration]

I say we all get drunk and talk about PQ!

 

 

That kid is

[Dr. Balls]

Balham's Finest,

The reason I bring it up is because I'm seeing more & more people wanting white pages over off-white pages for the same grade. To counter their thinking I would think off-white would be more desirable because it has the same grade despite having a lower page quality.

 

As I stated before, I don't personally care about page quality just the grade.

 

Okay, I will try to explain this one more time.

 

So....a CGC 9.8 with cream pages would be even better.

 

You're actually not explaining anything, you're asking me a question without a question mark at the end, but you're definitely not explaining anything with your above comment . I have never seen a 9.8 with cream pages.

 

It's very simple, if 2 cgc books have the same grade but one has a lower page quality & still grades out the same as the one with white pages there should be no reason someone would prefer the one with white pages. Which is what people are doing. If page quality has no bearing, then CGC shouldn't put it on the label where people would think it matters so much to pay more for white over off-white.

 

Okay. I will re-explain what others and myself have already explained.

 

First of all. I wasn't asking a question. I was "thinking". Being absurd to make a point. Hence the thinker at the end of my sentence.

 

Now to the explanation that has already been explained to you.

 

That number in the upper left hand corner of a CGC slabbed book (the grade given by CGC), has NOTHING to do with page whiteness or lack thereof.

 

The reason that page whiteness is notated on a label, is BECAUSE it has nothing to do with the given grade. They are two separate things. One is the structural grade of the paper, and the other is the color of the paper. Structural condition and color are not the same thing. Perhaps they should be, but they are not at this time.

 

Page whiteness (or lack thereof) and the "grade" given to a book. Are two separate things. Hence why they are both annotated on the label. Instead of just having a grade and nothing else.

 

Two separate things. Not a joint thing.

 

How many 9.8 cream pages have you seen? Give me a number. How many moderns with a 9.9 or 10.0 with cream pages for that matter? Tell me again how page quality doesn't matter.

 

Just because the CGC company line says one thing, doesn't mean they actually abide by it. They (CGC) are humans, there is no way they can accurately grade the massive amounts of books they get a daily basis 52 weeks a year. I have resubmitted many books & gotten back vastly differing grades & page quaities on the same book. To think they wouldn't do something just because they claim they don't is just naive.

 

...aaaaaaand here we go.

 

[Jiminy_Cricket-migration]

[Dr. Balls]

I can almost hear conditionfreak typing in the deafing silence of no responses...

[slym2none]

Ah, deriving value from IF clauses. That's a practise firmly grounded in reality

 

It never happens around here.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[namisgr]

why would anybody pay more for white pages over off-white for the same grade if it has no bearing? The whole point to my original post is that people prefer & pay more for white pages over off-white for the same grade on a regular basis.

 

Those who collect comic books rather than comic book covers prefer that the interiors be as well preserved as possible. Yes, there is inconsistency in how CGC judges page quality, but it's far from a random process, and the whiter the pages and the brighter the inks, the nicer the comic book and the more I am willing to pay for it.

[USArmyParatrooper]

 

How many 9.8 cream pages have you seen? Give me a number. How many moderns with a 9.9 or 10.0 with cream pages for that matter? Tell me again how page quality doesn't matter.

 

Just because the CGC company line says one thing, doesn't mean they actually abide by it. They (CGC) are humans, there is no way they can accurately grade the massive amounts of books they get a daily basis 52 weeks a year. I have resubmitted many books & gotten back vastly differing grades & page quaities on the same book. To think they wouldn't do something just because they claim they don't is just naive.

 

You need to take a step back and think about what you're saying. The vast majority of 9.8 comics are modern, and the very few older 9.8+ comics have been exceptionally well preserved and stored properly.

 

The majority of cream paged comics are silver age and older. It takes many, many years and improper storage for the pages to turn cream colored. That's why you never see 9.8+ comics with cream pages.

 

 

[Boba]

Shouldn't a CGC 9.8 Off-White to White pages be more desirable than CGC 9.8 White pages due to both having the same grade,rather than being considered less by most collectors? Wouldn't this imply the Off-White to White page copy would grade higher if it did in fact have white pages?

Actually, the CGC shouldn't even note page quality on the label at all unless it actually factors into the assigned grade as their page quality designations are mercurial at best.

 

I had to look mercurial up in websters . . .

 

"characterized by rapid and unpredictable changeableness "

[chrisco37]

Shouldn't a CGC 9.8 Off-White to White pages be more desirable than CGC 9.8 White pages due to both having the same grade,rather than being considered less by most collectors? Wouldn't this imply the Off-White to White page copy would grade higher if it did in fact have white pages?

Actually, the CGC shouldn't even note page quality on the label at all unless it actually factors into the assigned grade as their page quality designations are mercurial at best.

 

If I may be the lone voice of disagreement here, the fact that it's not factored into the grade is exactly why they should annotate the page quality. Otherwise how do you know if a book has nice, white pages or cream? It's not like you can open it.

Resub a book with cream pages and have it come back with white pages and then ask me this question again.

 

Do you have an example of a previous cream coming back as white?

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again....I resubbed a book that originally had LT-OW pages come back as straight OW.

 

I don't have scans, but there are a few boardies that can verify the story.

[Mumford's Comics]

 

How many 9.8 cream pages have you seen? Give me a number. How many moderns with a 9.9 or 10.0 with cream pages for that matter? Tell me again how page quality doesn't matter.

 

Just because the CGC company line says one thing, doesn't mean they actually abide by it. They (CGC) are humans, there is no way they can accurately grade the massive amounts of books they get a daily basis 52 weeks a year. I have resubmitted many books & gotten back vastly differing grades & page quaities on the same book. To think they wouldn't do something just because they claim they don't is just naive.

 

You need to take a step back and think about what you're saying. The vast majority of 9.8 comics are modern, and the very few older 9.8+ comics have been exceptionally well preserved and stored properly.

 

he majority of cream paged comics are silver age and older. It takes many, many years and improper storage for the pages to turn cream colored. That's why you never see 9.8+ comics with cream pages.

 

 

Another poster used a 9.8 cream pages as a joke example, so I was just responding to his dumb comment. Your comment is well thought out & probably is mostly right. But I don't think your statement is based on any scientific research that can be proven either way.Why couldn't a comic with cream pages still grade out as a 9.8, if page quality doesn't matter? Couldn't someone store comics in a chest without bags/boards get cream pages but still have comics that had flat covers with sharp corners?

 

It would be interesting if CGC could provide stats that would show how many of comics of a certain grade had white pages or off-white or whatever quality.

 

 

[DrWatson]

Shouldn't a CGC 9.8 Off-White to White pages be more desirable than CGC 9.8 White pages due to both having the same grade,rather than being considered less by most collectors? Wouldn't this imply the Off-White to White page copy would grade higher if it did in fact have white pages?

Actually, the CGC shouldn't even note page quality on the label at all unless it actually factors into the assigned grade as their page quality designations are mercurial at best.

 

If I may be the lone voice of disagreement here, the fact that it's not factored into the grade is exactly why they should annotate the page quality. Otherwise how do you know if a book has nice, white pages or cream? It's not like you can open it.

Resub a book with cream pages and have it come back with white pages and then ask me this question again.

 

Do you have an example of a previous cream coming back as white?

No, when one sends in a cream to off-white old label 9.0 for a crack, press, and resub and gets back a 9.4 with white pages they don't really want anyone to know it used to have cream to off-white pages.

[USArmyParatrooper]

Shouldn't a CGC 9.8 Off-White to White pages be more desirable than CGC 9.8 White pages due to both having the same grade,rather than being considered less by most collectors? Wouldn't this imply the Off-White to White page copy would grade higher if it did in fact have white pages?

Actually, the CGC shouldn't even note page quality on the label at all unless it actually factors into the assigned grade as their page quality designations are mercurial at best.

 

If I may be the lone voice of disagreement here, the fact that it's not factored into the grade is exactly why they should annotate the page quality. Otherwise how do you know if a book has nice, white pages or cream? It's not like you can open it.

Resub a book with cream pages and have it come back with white pages and then ask me this question again.

 

Do you have an example of a previous cream coming back as white?

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again....I resubbed a book that originally had LT-OW pages come back as straight OW.

 

I don't have scans, but there are a few boardies that can verify the story.

 

What are LT-OW pages?

 

Also, I agree there is some subjectivity and judgement calls that can be made. A book can be on the cusp between shades, or you can have comics that are outliers that were graded a bit too conservatively/liberally.

 

The same is true with grading. Straight resubs that end up getting a grade bump.

 

But from Cream to White as Dr.W suggested? I'd love to see that.

[JAM_NYC]

Shouldn't a CGC 9.8 Off-White to White pages be more desirable than CGC 9.8 White pages due to both having the same grade,rather than being considered less by most collectors? Wouldn't this imply the Off-White to White page copy would grade higher if it did in fact have white pages?

Actually, the CGC shouldn't even note page quality on the label at all unless it actually factors into the assigned grade as their page quality designations are mercurial at best.

 

If I may be the lone voice of disagreement here, the fact that it's not factored into the grade is exactly why they should annotate the page quality. Otherwise how do you know if a book has nice, white pages or cream? It's not like you can open it.

Resub a book with cream pages and have it come back with white pages and then ask me this question again.

 

Do you have an example of a previous cream coming back as white?

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again....I resubbed a book that originally had LT-OW pages come back as straight OW.

 

I don't have scans, but there are a few boardies that can verify the story.

 

What are LT-OW pages?

Light tan to off-white.