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Shouldn't a CGC 9.8 off-white pages be more desirable than 9.8 white pages?

Started by Mumford's Comics,

233 posts in this topic

chrisco37

chrisco37

Posted
Posted

I've said it before, and I'll say it again....I resubbed a book that originally had LT-OW pages come back as straight OW.

 

I don't have scans, but there are a few boardies that can verify the story.

 

Yes, but that was during your "lost years" :whistle:

 

I was young. I was stupid.

 

I'm better now.

 

 

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revat

revat

Posted
Posted

 

Shouldn't a CGC 9.8 Off-White to White pages be more desirable than CGC 9.8 White pages due to both having the same grade,rather than being considered less by most collectors? Wouldn't this imply the Off-White to White page copy would grade higher if it did in fact have white pages?

Actually, the CGC shouldn't even note page quality on the label at all unless it actually factors into the assigned grade as their page quality designations are mercurial at best.

 

If I may be the lone voice of disagreement here, the fact that it's not factored into the grade is exactly why they should annotate the page quality. Otherwise how do you know if a book has nice, white pages or cream? It's not like you can open it.

 

this totally makes sense, and I'm not sure why someone didn't mention it.

 

Here's a very secret answer that apparently eludes some people.:

 

Many people want their comics to be in the condition as close as possible to when it was first released, or first printed. Some of those people are willing to pay more for that. COmic pages were white when they were first printed and put on the shelves. Therefore there are people willing to pay more for the white pages.

 

Glad I have a Master's Degree so I could come up with that pearl of wisdom. Its a secret, don't tell anyone.

 

People want their comics to be pristine 10.0 gem mint perfect. They would prefer that to a 9.8 or 9.9 copy, so you're point isn't exactly correct. I'm pretty sure most people would pay more for a CGC 9.9 off-white over a CGC 9.8 white.

 

The point is fine, I just assumed (and thought everyone else was obviously doing so too) that we were comparing comics in the same CGC grade. When you're comparing different grade/pq combinations, its up to the individual collector what there preferences are, if any.

 

But as to the question of why some prefer white to off white, its because they want the book to be as close to minty fresh off the press as possible. And some people are willing to pay more for things the prefer, generally (whether its a little or a lot).

 

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Timely

Timely

Posted
Posted

There were a few errors that went out, & there was a little bit of a learning curve as to the affects PQ has on the grade, but my chart is correct.

 

 

also...

 

OW/W can get a 10

OW maxes out at 9.9

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Mumford's Comics

Mumford's Comics

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Balham's Finest,

The reason I bring it up is because I'm seeing more & more people wanting white pages over off-white pages for the same grade. To counter their thinking I would think off-white would be more desirable because it has the same grade despite having a lower page quality.

 

As I stated before, I don't personally care about page quality just the grade.

 

Okay, I will try to explain this one more time.

 

So....a CGC 9.8 with cream pages would be even better. hm

 

You're actually not explaining anything, you're asking me a question without a question mark at the end, but you're definitely not explaining anything with your above comment . I have never seen a 9.8 with cream pages.

 

It's very simple, if 2 cgc books have the same grade but one has a lower page quality & still grades out the same as the one with white pages there should be no reason someone would prefer the one with white pages. Which is what people are doing. If page quality has no bearing, then CGC shouldn't put it on the label where people would think it matters so much to pay more for white over off-white.

 

Okay. I will re-explain what others and myself have already explained.

 

First of all. I wasn't asking a question. I was "thinking". Being absurd to make a point. Hence the hm thinker at the end of my sentence.

 

Now to the explanation that has already been explained to you.

 

That number in the upper left hand corner of a CGC slabbed book (the grade given by CGC), has NOTHING to do with page whiteness or lack thereof.

 

The reason that page whiteness is notated on a label, is BECAUSE it has nothing to do with the given grade. They are two separate things. One is the structural grade of the paper, and the other is the color of the paper. Structural condition and color are not the same thing. Perhaps they should be, but they are not at this time.

 

Page whiteness (or lack thereof) and the "grade" given to a book. Are two separate things. Hence why they are both annotated on the label. Instead of just having a grade and nothing else.

 

Two separate things. Not a joint thing.

 

How many 9.8 cream pages have you seen? Give me a number. How many moderns with a 9.9 or 10.0 with cream pages for that matter? Tell me again how page quality doesn't matter.

 

Just because the CGC company line says one thing, doesn't mean they actually abide by it. They (CGC) are humans, there is no way they can accurately grade the massive amounts of books they get a daily basis 52 weeks a year. I have resubmitted many books & gotten back vastly differing grades & page quaities on the same book. To think they wouldn't do something just because they claim they don't is just naive.

 

You tend to focus in on the little things, that hide the fact that you do not understand the sounds that are coming out of my mouth.

 

The grade does not take into consideration the page color, when books have ow-w or just white.

 

I think that you originally were under a misconception that they did, and now you are trying to cover your not understanding this, by grasping at straws.

 

A CGC 9.8 of ASM #250 that has off white pages, is not a better book (structurally) than a CGC 9.8 ASM #250 that has white pages.

 

To confuse you even further. Both could be equal. Given that on any given day, CGC could say a book is off white, and then another day, they could say that same book has white pages.

 

But (now get ready to try and understand this, without an attitude), those two ASM #250's, only differ in page coloration. Not structural integrity. Both are 9.8's. One is not a higher 9.8 than the other.

 

But this does not preclude that one may be more desirable than the other, due to page quality or a mis-wrap (which does not factor into the grade either).

 

I never said that there were 9.8 books with cream pages. What I did was illustrate your confusion about this situation, with an extreme example of your hypothesis.

 

I love it when someone says "do this" or "give me a number". Why would I ask how high, when you say "jump"? Now, you are arguing that CGC employees are only human and thus they can make mistakes.

 

Duh. :facepalm:

 

Wow, in my face! Someone already did & showed that I was right. There was 1 tan to cream that was an error & recalled. So there is zero.

 

You're just mad that I stuffed you earlier about how you said you were going to explain something, then proceeded to explain nothing.

 

My comment about CGC was that people on these forums act like CGC is the greatest, infalliable company that ever existed. Meanwhile, major comic dealers advertise on their site & also get their comics graded by them also. I see this as a conflict of interest.

 

We are supposed to think they are impartial while at the same time being paid massive sums of money by these dealers. Not saying favoritism in grading happens, but they shouldn't even allow that thought to occur in the first place by allowing it.

 

There are many who have stated, like me, that resubmitting books get vastly different grades & page qualities than they have gotten previously. I have heard of people resubmiting books with a blue label, getting a purple restored in return & vice-versa.

 

Also, as I stated before, i find it extremely hard to believe that they have the man power to handle the massive amounts of comics every weekday 52 weeks a year, accurately. The mail never stops.

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conditionfreak

conditionfreak

Posted
Posted
lfsetpath5B62F12F02F52F61057355D2Cs_zpsee46b3f7.jpg

 

:whistle:

 

You have went from wondering out loud, why a 9.8 with off white-white pages is not actually a better book than a 9.8 with white pages. To now denigrating CGC for their failings.

 

Why didn't you start with that in the first place? You might have gotten more people to side with you, than with your first ill conceived question and notion.

 

"Shouldn't a CGC 9.8 Off-White to White pages be more desirable than CGC 9.8 White pages due to both having the same grade,rather than being considered less by most collectors? Wouldn't this imply the Off-White to White page copy would grade higher if it did in fact have white pages?"

 

Oh, and I give up. doh!

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B-Smooth

B-Smooth

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Posted
Balham's Finest,

The reason I bring it up is because I'm seeing more & more people wanting white pages over off-white pages for the same grade. To counter their thinking I would think off-white would be more desirable because it has the same grade despite having a lower page quality.

 

As I stated before, I don't personally care about page quality just the grade.

 

Okay, I will try to explain this one more time.

 

So....a CGC 9.8 with cream pages would be even better. hm

 

You're actually not explaining anything, you're asking me a question without a question mark at the end, but you're definitely not explaining anything with your above comment . I have never seen a 9.8 with cream pages.

 

It's very simple, if 2 cgc books have the same grade but one has a lower page quality & still grades out the same as the one with white pages there should be no reason someone would prefer the one with white pages. Which is what people are doing. If page quality has no bearing, then CGC shouldn't put it on the label where people would think it matters so much to pay more for white over off-white.

It just means one is closer to inevitable disintegration then the other.
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USArmyParatrooper

USArmyParatrooper

Posted
Posted
Am unsure if the pages started off as white.

 

9.8_LightTan.jpg

 

I remember this comic! One of my childhood comics that got stolen. I bought it off the shelf and LOVED the read. I had forgotten all about it. Makes me sad about the theft. :(

 

I just looked up GPA and one sold for $128. I bought it right off the shelf and took good care of all my comics. God knows what my collection was worth.

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