CGC Issue Resolved

[Davenport]

a) if a book has a trim but the book is very wavy or crooked then the trim can be harder to detect the first time around because the book itself isn't straight. Pressing the book actually can make a trim job easier to detect because everything becomes nice and straight / flat making it easier to spot.

 

b) heat can sometimes affect material on a book - for instance there is a dab of something on the cover, it looks innocuous and when you heat it and it changes creating what might look like colour touch.

 

Far fetched but a) has actually happened to me.

 

I'm always curious why, with two conflicting CGC assessments, it's automatically assumed the 'restored' is the correct one.

 

Why couldn't that same pressing-scenario you laid out also result in a false-positive?

Couldn't a press result in an unnaturally appearing straight edge? Triggering a mistake?

Regardless, there have been past OO posters state they sent in books bought off the rack that got tagged as trimmed. And if detecting trim is a skilled judgement call, it's not infallible.

 

CT is different. It's there are it's not. He needs an outside independent expert secondary opinion to point out exactly where it's located and that it is indeed color touch, eliminating any doubt whatsoever.

 

Would the CT location be disclosed in the notes so he could check it? I've never gotten notes on a CTed book so I don't know. It would seem that if they are going to give you a purple label you should get all the details laid out.

Keep in mind CGC "Certifies" comics. The 'grade' and 'restoration check' are just a part of that overall service, so you're not entitled to "details". Grader's notes can be purchased. But I wasn't even talking about that, written notations. I meant he needs to be shown, to be able to visually confirm exactly what they're seeing, and then confirm beyond doubt that's it is added color intended to restore.

 

I don't think I disagreed with anything you said, I was simply asking if the notes would supply the information that you were talking about. If they put the location of the CT in the notes that would, in effect, show him where it is so he could visually confirm it. It would seem to me that if they are going to certify any book as having CT that they ought to be able to tell you where it is. It shouldn't be a guess, and making the owner guess wouldn't inspire confidence that they aren't guessing. If they can't pinpoint it for the owner then they shouldn't give it a purple label.

Sorry, and I agree with all you've said. I was mainly thinking about previous posts though the years who've said they got notes but still couldn't find it.

 

In this case it's a double-confirmation that's needed. He should confirm it is absolutely there, which confirms they did miss it previously. Just assuming their second assessment is more accurate than their first seems silly.

[dupont2005]

People ooh and aah about all the "wins" they see when someone gets an upgrade but I've been saying for years that there are big losses too. You just don't hear about them as often.

 

It's a gamble every time and nothing is guaranteed.

A bump up or down a grade is one thing, but a blue label coming back purple is surprising to me. Then again, I only have one slab

[kav]

some times when you take your car to the shop they screw it up. usually they fix it but mistakes happen. we still have to take our car to the shops when it breaks down. likewise with doctors and everything. humans are fallible I think I've proven that pretty conclusively.

 

Mechanics fix their mistakes. I had a carpet installer come back and fix a mistake today. Who is fixing the mistake on Dan's book?? I somehow doubt cgc is doing anything to make amends.

 

What are you talking about, the mistakes were corrected when Dan resubmitted

the comics.

 

 

That's a fair argument against mine. I was thinking more in terms of financially speaking. CGC should fix their original mistake by reimbursing Dan the price difference of the books original grade versus the new grade. Had they done the work correctly the first time he would not be in this situation. Completely their fault. Their mistake cost someone real money. You back your business, own up to the mistake and reimburse your clients.

 

 

When you play the crack & resub game, sometimes you loose.

 

As far as I know Dan's business model is based around buying books that look under-graded in the slab (particularly old label books) & then do straight resubmissions, hoping for a higher grade. In those cases should Dan then reimburse CGC for the money he's making on their "mistake" in not giving those books the higher grade to begin with?

 

and then CGC transfers that money to the original submitter

[JediTrix]

some times when you take your car to the shop they screw it up. usually they fix it but mistakes happen. we still have to take our car to the shops when it breaks down. likewise with doctors and everything. humans are fallible I think I've proven that pretty conclusively.

 

Mechanics fix their mistakes. I had a carpet installer come back and fix a mistake today. Who is fixing the mistake on Dan's book?? I somehow doubt cgc is doing anything to make amends.

 

What are you talking about, the mistakes were corrected when Dan resubmitted

the comics.

 

 

That's a fair argument against mine. I was thinking more in terms of financially speaking. CGC should fix their original mistake by reimbursing Dan the price difference of the books original grade versus the new grade. Had they done the work correctly the first time he would not be in this situation. Completely their fault. Their mistake cost someone real money. You back your business, own up to the mistake and reimburse your clients.

 

 

When you play the crack & resub game, sometimes you loose.

 

As far as I know Dan's business model is based around buying books that look under-graded in the slab (particularly old label books) & then do straight resubmissions, hoping for a higher grade. In those cases should Dan then reimburse CGC for the money he's making on their "mistake" in not giving those books the higher grade to begin with?

 

Fair. And the resub game is risky, he lost this round.

 

I mentioned earlier, grading is subjective. We are all somewhat forgiving on that. It's the restoration I have an issue with. Not subjective - it's either restored or it's not. And the price difference between blue and purple is much larger than (most) grade bumps.

 

 

[MrBedrock]

The tinfoils have made me see the light. The CGC's master plan is now in Phase II. Periodically upon resubmission books that were previously certified as unrestored will be erroneously labelled as restored with the intent of persuading the submitter to use The CCS to remove the restoration, then resubmit a third time to The CGC for a clean bill of health.

Cha-ching!

[mschmidt]

some times when you take your car to the shop they screw it up. usually they fix it but mistakes happen. we still have to take our car to the shops when it breaks down. likewise with doctors and everything. humans are fallible I think I've proven that pretty conclusively.

 

Mechanics fix their mistakes. I had a carpet installer come back and fix a mistake today. Who is fixing the mistake on Dan's book?? I somehow doubt cgc is doing anything to make amends.

 

What are you talking about, the mistakes were corrected when Dan resubmitted

the comics.

 

 

That's a fair argument against mine. I was thinking more in terms of financially speaking. CGC should fix their original mistake by reimbursing Dan the price difference of the books original grade versus the new grade. Had they done the work correctly the first time he would not be in this situation. Completely their fault. Their mistake cost someone real money. You back your business, own up to the mistake and reimburse your clients.

 

 

When you play the crack & resub game, sometimes you loose.

 

As far as I know Dan's business model is based around buying books that look under-graded in the slab (particularly old label books) & then do straight resubmissions, hoping for a higher grade. In those cases should Dan then reimburse CGC for the money he's making on their "mistake" in not giving those books the higher grade to begin with?

 

Fair. And the resub game is risky, he lost this round.

 

I mentioned earlier, grading is subjective. We are all somewhat forgiving on that. It's the restoration I have an issue with. Not subjective - it's either restored or it's not. And the price difference between blue and purple is much larger than (most) grade bumps.

 

 

No disagreement there :thumbsup:

[kav]

The tinfoils have made me see the light. The CGC's master plan is now in Phase II. Periodically upon resubmission books that were previously certified as unrestored will be erroneously labelled as restored with the intent of persuading the submitter to use The CCS to remove the restoration, then resubmit a third time to The CGC for a clean bill of health.

Cha-ching!

 

good one. but how do you remove trimming?

[Hawkman]

my problem with this situation is that I never see anyone pissed off when a re-sub works in their favor and they now have a book worth way more than it was previously worth. people need to stop expecting CGC (or any company) to be perfect. and realize the risk before you re-sub.

 

that being said, it would be decent of CGC in these situations to at least refund your re-subbing money since they did miss the resto once.

[gyro-1]

The tinfoils have made me see the light. The CGC's master plan is now in Phase II. Periodically upon resubmission books that were previously certified as unrestored will be erroneously labelled as restored with the intent of persuading the submitter to use The CCS to remove the restoration, then resubmit a third time to The CGC for a clean bill of health.

Cha-ching!

 

good one. but how do you remove trimming?

paper crayons and glue

[MrBedrock]

The tinfoils have made me see the light. The CGC's master plan is now in Phase II. Periodically upon resubmission books that were previously certified as unrestored will be erroneously labelled as restored with the intent of persuading the submitter to use The CCS to remove the restoration, then resubmit a third time to The CGC for a clean bill of health.

Cha-ching!

 

good one. but how do you remove trimming?

scuff up the edges?

[kav]

The tinfoils have made me see the light. The CGC's master plan is now in Phase II. Periodically upon resubmission books that were previously certified as unrestored will be erroneously labelled as restored with the intent of persuading the submitter to use The CCS to remove the restoration, then resubmit a third time to The CGC for a clean bill of health.

Cha-ching!

 

good one. but how do you remove trimming?

scuff up the edges?

 

yep and put comic on rack to stretch it out a bit.

[DrWatson]

The tinfoils have made me see the light. The CGC's master plan is now in Phase II. Periodically upon resubmission books that were previously certified as unrestored will be erroneously labelled as restored with the intent of persuading the submitter to use The CCS to remove the restoration, then resubmit a third time to The CGC for a clean bill of health.

Cha-ching!

That makes perfect sense!

 

[Harley Troy]

my problem with this situation is that I never see anyone pissed off when a re-sub works in their favor and they now have a book worth way more than it was previously worth. people need to stop expecting CGC (or any company) to be perfect. and realize the risk before you re-sub.

 

that being said, it would be decent of CGC in these situations to at least refund your re-subbing money since they did miss the resto once.

 

Assuming nothing happened to the books. The OP seems legit and I seriously doubt any maleficence on his part, but talk about a slippery slope. If the books were submitted in the original, uncracked slabs than yes, absolutely CGC should reimburse the grading. But sadly in the OP's case, that does not appear to be a possibility.

[romanheart]

You would think that CGC would know that the resubmit results would spark a loss in faith in their customer and at least provide some kind of explanation for the loss in the value of the comics as a result of their regrading.

[dragonmgmt]

 

 

Dan aka Flipper tried to squeeze more out of a book and came up dry.

Collectors should be happy, this might stop some of these sellers from

pressing books. It will never stop the big guns like Comic Link & Sparkle City

they will continue to press away.

 

WOW

 

Ignore him...he will be on the HOS in a few days for scamming 2 guys on an AF 15.

[kav]

my problem with this situation is that I never see anyone pissed off when a re-sub works in their favor and they now have a book worth way more than it was previously worth. people need to stop expecting CGC (or any company) to be perfect. and realize the risk before you re-sub.

 

that being said, it would be decent of CGC in these situations to at least refund your re-subbing money since they did miss the resto once.

 

Assuming nothing happened to the books. The OP seems legit and I seriously doubt any maleficence on his part, but talk about a slippery slope. If the books were submitted in the original, uncracked slabs than yes, absolutely CGC should reimburse the grading. But sadly in the OP's case, that does not appear to be a possibility.

 

[SuperiorSpiderMan]

It's a gamble every time and nothing is guaranteed.

 

This.

 

I'd rather see Blue go Purple than the other way around though.

 

I like what you said, Peter. That shows integrity. (thumbs u

 

Of course you want to know what you have in your collection. But from a seller's view, you want your buyers to be assured they acquired something from you that is true.

 

 

[Unca Ben]

Could CGC institute a policy to share or assume the monetary loss of a blue label that's found to be restored on a re-sub?

 

If a book is still in the slab and sent to CGC for a re-sub so that CGC knows that nothing was done to a book between gradings, and if resto is detected and the submitter can verify what he paid for the book, then could CGC make some sort of reimbursement based on the difference between GPA averages of the restored equivalent, and what the submitter paid for the book?

It may be a bit costly for CGC but it would not happen that often. It would be good PR for CGC and they could work the cost into their pricing. (Not that anyone wants prices to go up).

Of course this could open the doors for similar policy changes on re-subs that come back in lower grades.

 

Not that I'm advocating this, just thinking out loud.

[Bills Comics]

In today's age I can't understand why someone can't make a program that can scan a book . Run the results through the program and come up with a 100% iron clad grade . To me until that day these kind of results will continue to happen . It's why I am not a big fan of cgc .

Dan what you need to do is get those books to a big dealer , have them crack and resubmit for you .

Not only would they probably come back blue labels, they will have a nice big grade bump to boot .

PIP , when did you buy stock in cgc ?

[Badger]

The tinfoils have made me see the light. The CGC's master plan is now in Phase II. Periodically upon resubmission books that were previously certified as unrestored will be erroneously labelled as restored with the intent of persuading the submitter to use The CCS to remove the restoration, then resubmit a third time to The CGC for a clean bill of health.

Cha-ching!