Ive lost ALL confidence in CGC - UPDATE on page 221 2 2

[CBT]

Have you ever seen how Stan Lee handles books? I don't care if they are window bagged or not, I've heard horror stories of him handling and leaning on them roughly.

 

Just because a book is cracked out a 9.8 doesn't mean it will stay a 9.8. How the book is handled before, during, and after it is signed can knock it down.

 

I wondered this too

[kav]

Also, what about sigs specifically designed to cover over defects?

Special note on label 'Defect hidden by sig' or something?

[mysterio]

The most conservative way to run the experiment/audit is to count the grade bumps as a percentage of the total. You KNOW those are grading variances on what can conservatively be accepted as the same example plus a signature. If a grade drops you don't know if it is a difference in actual grade or simply perception of the same book in the same grade.

 

FWIW, I know that I am over 1-2% in grade bumps in my SS career, and that doesn't count the much higher percentage of grade drops I've had. Off the top of my head I would say that somewhere in the neighborhood of a third of my SS change grades on the SS sub, including 2/3 of my last small sub.

Edited April 5, 2014 by mysterio

[kav]

The most conservative way to run the experiment/audit is to count the grade bumps as a percentage of the total. You KNOW those are grading variances on what can conservatively be accepted as the same example plus a signature. If a grade drops you don't know if it is a difference in actual grade or simply perception of the same book in the same grade.

 

FWIW, I know that I am over 1-2% in grade bumps in my SS career, and that doesn't count the much higher percentage of grade drops I've had. Off the top of my head I would say that somewhere in the neighborhood of a third of my SS change grades on the SS sub, including 2/3 of my last small sub.

Yup:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi-squared_test

[telerites]

Have you ever seen how Stan Lee handles books? I don't care if they are window bagged or not, I've heard horror stories of him handling and leaning on them roughly.

 

Just because a book is cracked out a 9.8 doesn't mean it will stay a 9.8. How the book is handled before, during, and after it is signed can knock it down.

 

I wondered this too

 

I had a book signed by Stan that was a slabbed 4.0 ow. After his signing, it came back as 4.5 ow-w. No press at all. Not only a grade bump but PQ improved too.

[kav]

Have you ever seen how Stan Lee handles books? I don't care if they are window bagged or not, I've heard horror stories of him handling and leaning on them roughly.

 

Just because a book is cracked out a 9.8 doesn't mean it will stay a 9.8. How the book is handled before, during, and after it is signed can knock it down.

 

I wondered this too

 

I had a book signed by Stan that was a slabbed 4.0 ow. After his signing, it came back as 4.5 ow-w. No press at all. Not only a grade bump but PQ improved too.

That's what happens when Stan touches stuff. His sneeze is even more powerful.

[MatterEaterLad]

The most conservative way to run the experiment/audit is to count the grade bumps as a percentage of the total. You KNOW those are grading variances on what can conservatively be accepted as the same example plus a signature. If a grade drops you don't know if it is a difference in actual grade or simply perception of the same book in the same grade.

 

FWIW, I know that I am over 1-2% in grade bumps in my SS career, and that doesn't count the much higher percentage of grade drops I've had. Off the top of my head I would say that somewhere in the neighborhood of a third of my SS change grades on the SS sub, including 2/3 of my last small sub.

 

SS books inject a bit of randomness because of the extra handling of the book. As far as data, it's better than nothing, but a pure resub would be a better indicator of consistency in grading.

 

Okay Kav, now all we need you to do is resub 100 books for us...

 

[mysterio]

The most conservative way to run the experiment/audit is to count the grade bumps as a percentage of the total. You KNOW those are grading variances on what can conservatively be accepted as the same example plus a signature. If a grade drops you don't know if it is a difference in actual grade or simply perception of the same book in the same grade.

 

FWIW, I know that I am over 1-2% in grade bumps in my SS career, and that doesn't count the much higher percentage of grade drops I've had. Off the top of my head I would say that somewhere in the neighborhood of a third of my SS change grades on the SS sub, including 2/3 of my last small sub.

 

SS books inject a bit of randomness because of the extra handling of the book. As far as data, it's better than nothing, but a pure resub would be a better indicator of consistency in grading.

 

I agree, but not too many people resubmit blue labels for the potential for bumps that would be willing to disclose the results. Plus I would bet that the books that are predominantly submitted in this way look good for the grade, which would definitely skew the sample and make it less of a representative cross-section of CGC's work.

 

The blue to yellow experiment will yield more data, and that data will at least have the hope of not being super skewed to the "strong eye appeal for the grade" side like a straight blue resub might have. I figure that many blue to yellow subs will also have a better chance of being unpressed during that process.

 

The data won't be perfect, but counting only the grade bumps gives the most conservative possible reading of the data on grading variance. Defects are not erased through the signing process, and the signature is ignored in the grading as part of the yellow label service. Whatever percentage of bumps we are seeing in this conservative count, especially if it exceeds 1-2%, is a pretty good indication that the actual swing in grades on a resub simply has to be higher than that.

 

I'd be happy to provide my own data, but it may take me a bit to work it out.

Edited April 5, 2014 by mysterio

[THE_BEYONDER]

When the SS program first started, CGC made a conscious effort to ensure that Blue label books didn't take a hit when making the transition to Yellow.

 

They were afraid that collectors wouldn't risk resubbing their blue labels for signatures if there was a significant risk of a downgrade.

 

Does this still happen? Probably not...because the program has become a juggernaut.

 

 

[kav]

When the SS program first started, CGC made a conscious effort to ensure that Blue label books didn't take a hit when making the transition to Yellow.

 

They were afraid that collectors wouldn't risk resubbing their blue labels for signatures if there was a significant risk of a downgrade.

 

Does this still happen? Probably not...because the program has become a juggernaut.

 

[pickycollector]

I think I'm going to skip the circle jerk this time around & just accept micro-trimming as the new pressing.

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't be shocked if that's what it becomes.

 

When it was first revealed that comics were being pressed (before & after scans of books with significant grade bumps were posted to these fourms)....the villagers began to riot. There was outrage & distain.

 

Now everyone & their little sister presses books.

 

It's amazing what can happen when people are presented with an opportunity to print their own money.

Sad but true.

 

And micro-trimming could be the next thing (if not already) once CGC says that they cannot distinct micro-trimming.

 

Who knows, they may even offer in-house micro-trimming in a near future...

 

I am therefore asking this question to CGC (and all dealers and experimented collectors should ask themselves too), what do you consider the most difficult thing to detect on a raw book, pressing or micro-trimming ?

 

[Comicopolis]

Just assume that all books have been micro-trimmed and you'll sleep easier at night.

[kav]

What about micro-buffing of staples?

[pickycollector]

Just assume that all books have been micro-trimmed and you'll sleep easier at night.

[Comicopolis]

Just assume that all books have been micro-trimmed and you'll sleep easier at night.

 

 

Too picky?

[MetalPSI]

I have noticed that anyone who has anything to do with the money that CGC brings in posts in noncomittal ways and is vague.

 

It's the way all business is done( in america at any rate) noone wants to take the blame or say something that could get them in hot water later.

 

And who can blame them? With the way people are so eager to push the button on suing someone for something as superfical as calling them out or telling it like it is by calling them an ahole.

 

It's all a matter of opinion anyway.

 

Fact.... Said book was sent in to be graded. Came back a 6.0 blue

Fact....Said book was cracked from slab and resubmitted and came back a 7.0 PLOD (which I do not agree with the slang here. A purple label is a purple label. If you don't like the label, then don't buy one.)

Fact....Said book was cracked once again, once again resubmitted, and came back a 6.0 blue

 

Until we hear from the graders themselves, EVERYTHING in this thread is speculation.

 

I don't know what CGC's policy on PR is, and only the employee's know. They aren't talking for a reason.

 

Don't like the way they handled the situation? Don't support them. Delete your username and never buy a CGC product again. Never buy from someone who is a dealer.

 

I dunno. Economics are easy for me. If I don't give people money, their business doesn't get my money. If everyone did this, that business would go out of business and I would have to look for other things to complain online at length about.

[CBT]

 

Don't like the way they handled the situation? Don't support them. Delete your username and never buy a CGC product again. Never buy from someone who is a dealer.

 

was digging the post right up until here. For many, not involving oneself with a monopoly is not so easy. The thread is good, even though nothing will ever come from it, if only for the pressure it puts on them.

Edited April 6, 2014 by CBT

[kav]

Using a service/buying a product does not imply you cannot criticise them. USPS for example.

[MetalPSI]

 

Don't like the way they handled the situation? Don't support them. Delete your username and never buy a CGC product again. Never buy from someone who is a dealer.

 

was digging the post right up until here. For many, not involving oneself with a monopoly is not so easy. The thread is good, even though nothing will ever come from it, if only for the pressure it puts on them.

 

 

It's straight up economics. If you don't buy, they can't support themselves.

[ComicConnoisseur]

there was one hitman called the "Iceman' who would go in a bar and spill his drink on victim. There's a chemical which pulls any solute into the bloodstream....solutes like Cyanide.....

 

They made a decent movie about it.

Disturbing because it was true!

 

Thats the dude-havent seen the movie did he do the drink thing in it?

Classic sociopath BTW. Ps sociopath does not necessarily mean criminal. You could be living with a sociopath and not know it. Here's a test-ask them:

A woman goes to her father's funeral and meets the man of her dreams her soul mate. But he leaves before she can get his number.

A week later she murders her sister. Why do you think she did that?

I remember him spraying someone with it at a Disco.

It`s been awhile since I saw it.