Ive lost ALL confidence in CGC - UPDATE on page 221 2 2

[kav]

This is all I want: what exact physical characteristics make it trimmed? Like, tiny chips off edge from being cut after ink dried or color of edge paper lighter than other edges or smoothness of edge not compatible with other edges? SOMETHING.

Yeah, hang on for those. They'll be releasing detection methods right after their grading criteria. Just be patient.

Jesus.

Can't anyone just do something cool one time for the hell of it? Huh? for the people that keep them in business??

They already explained it to you.

'Extra scrutiny' is applied whenever the 'extremely subtle' is confronted.

I just wanna know what their scrutinizing revealed, that's all. So we can all better understand what happened then maybe we can watch out for it.

 

If you knew how to do something which was in demand to the point where people paid you to do it based on the skill rather than just the labor, would you teach them how to do it?

Yes because it would not impact my business. Being able to detect stuff and having a business that slabs stuff are separate. An auto shop can explain to me what was wrong with my car and I wont jeopardize their business. I dont have a shop. People still have to come to them to get their car fixed, regardless of what I know about cars.

 

You are incorrect about the bolded part, no they don't. Not if they knew how to fix it themselves and didn't mind doing the work. Your analogy is weak as there is a lot of labor involved in fixing a car that people would not want to do even if they knew how to fix it.

 

Whereas in detecting trimming in a comic book, there is no labor involved. A minute or two of your time, if you knew how to do it.

Not the best analogy. But merely because you know their 'secrets' will not impact their business-people still want a slabbed book because they don't know if a seller is lying or what his detection skills are.

[Davenport]

Not the best analogy. But merely because you know their 'secrets' will not impact their business-people still want a slabbed book because they don't know if a seller is lying or what his detection skills are.

Opinion For Sale

*methodologies not included

 

[kav]

Just in this one case since it's become a serious credibility issue they should pull back the curtain.

We want to believe-please-help us.

[Davenport]

Just in this one case since it's become a serious credibility issue they should pull back the curtain.

We want to believe-please-help us.

Seriously, in this case I think you can work it out backwards...

 

All comics are trimmed...

Re-trimmed may be obvious...

Subtle spot re-trimming will be difficult...

Subtle spot micro-trimming done with finesse may be nearly impossible...

 

At some point it flips over into "best guess" or "judgment call" territory. How could it not?

 

 

 

 

[techtre2003]

This is all I want: what exact physical characteristics make it trimmed? Like, tiny chips off edge from being cut after ink dried or color of edge paper lighter than other edges or smoothness of edge not compatible with other edges? SOMETHING.

Yeah, hang on for those. They'll be releasing detection methods right after their grading criteria. Just be patient.

Jesus.

Can't anyone just do something cool one time for the hell of it? Huh? for the people that keep them in business??

They already explained it to you.

'Extra scrutiny' is applied whenever the 'extremely subtle' is confronted.

I just wanna know what their scrutinizing revealed, that's all. So we can all better understand what happened then maybe we can watch out for it.

 

If you knew how to do something which was in demand to the point where people paid you to do it based on the skill rather than just the labor, would you teach them how to do it?

 

I wouldn't expect them to divulge any trade secrets, but a somewhat vague overall idea of what to look at would be nice. It's just kind of hard to swallow that certain books are trimmed because "we are saying it is trimmed". It would be nice to hear "we believe it's trimmed because..."

I think we can all agree micro-trimming is TOUGH to catch so if CGC truly believes they have the best in the business doing it (and they might, I don't know) I wouldn't think they would have anything to worry about sharing a little information.

 

I agree that it would be nice to get an explanation, as that would remove the temptation to believe that their diagnosis is simply a guess in cases like this, but in practice this is problematic for CGC. Your second statement I've bolded isn't really compatible with the first bolded passage. If they tell us what they found and how they found it, that will often require a trade secret in the detection of trimming to be divulged. It's not likely to happen,

 

Yeah, I see how those can be contradictory huh. At the same time, it sounds like even if you know what you are looking for it's still very tough. So maybe they could say what types of things to look for and not necessarily their tools or methodology? We know what to look for when grading books yet we don't know CGCs process and they seem to keep a lot of business.

 

Has anyone come out and explained how micro trimming is done in other collectible paper hobbies, ie: sports cards?

[VintageComics]

If you knew how to do something which was in demand to the point where people paid you to do it based on the skill rather than just the labor, would you teach them how to do it?

 

That's how it works routinely in the Arts and Sciences.

 

For CGC though, not at all.

 

Not really. It depends on the area of art and science. If it's proprietary (like a biological firm's drug or medicinal secrets) they won't release it until they can monetize it.

 

 

[techtre2003]

If you knew how to do something which was in demand to the point where people paid you to do it based on the skill rather than just the labor, would you teach them how to do it?

 

That's how it works routinely in the Arts and Sciences.

 

For CGC though, not at all.

 

Not really. It depends on the area of art and science. If it's proprietary (like a biological firm's drug or medicinal secrets) they won't release it until they can monetize it.

 

 

Sad but true as I think we'd be much more advanced in those fields if there were more knowledge sharing going on.

[VintageComics]

Why give up your competitive advantage?

 

Exactly.

 

I've said this before: people are socialistic when they want to gain from something from someone else (ie. when buying or gaining knowledge that can save them money) - they're willing to be your best friend, they're buying it for their collection (in the sweetest possible voice), they just want to help mankind but capitalistic when they are selling or taking someone else's money - sorry, that's the price...take it or leave it.

 

 

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

Just in this one case since it's become a serious credibility issue they should pull back the curtain.

We want to believe-please-help us.

Seriously, in this case I think you can work it out backwards...

 

All comics are trimmed...

Re-trimmed may be obvious...

Subtle spot re-trimming will be difficult...

Subtle spot micro-trimming done with finesse may be nearly impossible...

 

At some point it flips over into "best guess" or "judgment call" territory. How could it not?

 

 

 

 

CGC doesn't make judgement calls.

[kav]

Just in this one case since it's become a serious credibility issue they should pull back the curtain.

We want to believe-please-help us.

Seriously, in this case I think you can work it out backwards...

 

All comics are trimmed...

Re-trimmed may be obvious...

Subtle spot re-trimming will be difficult...

Subtle spot micro-trimming done with finesse may be nearly impossible...

 

At some point it flips over into "best guess" or "judgment call" territory. How could it not?

 

 

 

This is a special case and there's still some doubt that it is actually trimmed and they're not just saying that because it's the best option available to make them look the best. Admitting it 'wasn't trimmed' after 'everyone looked at it' would be real egg in the face.

I don't think it is trimmed and I wanna know what exactly evidence they have.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I think I'm going to skip the circle jerk this time around & just accept micro-trimming as the new pressing.

 

Excuse me while I give you a and a in the same breath.

 

 

You just love pushing the boundaries to test them and see if there will be an echo coming back.

 

Nobody is OK with undisclosed trimming just like nobody is OK with unicorn farts. And never will be.

 

 

 

 

You're right. (thumbs u

 

Like pressing....micro-trimming will demand disclosure.

 

 

Here's hoping we don't have to deal with the same song & dance of "All you have to do is ask"....and the disclosure will automatically be proactive.

[Davenport]

Just in this one case since it's become a serious credibility issue they should pull back the curtain.

We want to believe-please-help us.

Seriously, in this case I think you can work it out backwards...

 

All comics are trimmed...

Re-trimmed may be obvious...

Subtle spot re-trimming will be difficult...

Subtle spot micro-trimming done with finesse may be nearly impossible...

 

At some point it flips over into "best guess" or "judgment call" territory. How could it not?

 

 

 

 

CGC doesn't make judgement calls.

Make, certify and sell.

 

Judgement Call - noun. : a decision that is based on your opinion.

 

[Bronty]

If you knew how to do something which was in demand to the point where people paid you to do it based on the skill rather than just the labor, would you teach them how to do it?

 

That's how it works routinely in the Arts and Sciences.

 

For CGC though, not at all.

 

Not really. It depends on the area of art and science. If it's proprietary (like a biological firm's drug or medicinal secrets) they won't release it until they can monetize it.

 

 

Sad but true as I think we'd be much more advanced in those fields if there were more knowledge sharing going on.

 

You'd de- incentivize the entire industry. Without the prospect of a profitable monopoly you can't get the research funded. NOT sharing is what makes research possible

[mysterio]

If you knew how to do something which was in demand to the point where people paid you to do it based on the skill rather than just the labor, would you teach them how to do it?

 

That's how it works routinely in the Arts and Sciences.

 

For CGC though, not at all.

 

Not really. It depends on the area of art and science. If it's proprietary (like a biological firm's drug or medicinal secrets) they won't release it until they can monetize it.

 

 

Sad but true as I think we'd be much more advanced in those fields if there were more knowledge sharing going on.

 

It may be exactly the opposite. Would you spend tens or hundreds of millions on R & D just to give something away?

 

Apparently Dan is a little quicker than I am today.

Edited April 4, 2014 by mysterio

[kav]

Just in this one case since it's become a serious credibility issue they should pull back the curtain.

We want to believe-please-help us.

Seriously, in this case I think you can work it out backwards...

 

All comics are trimmed...

Re-trimmed may be obvious...

Subtle spot re-trimming will be difficult...

Subtle spot micro-trimming done with finesse may be nearly impossible...

 

At some point it flips over into "best guess" or "judgment call" territory. How could it not?

 

 

 

 

CGC doesn't make judgement calls.

Make, certify and sell.

 

Judgement Call - noun. : a decision that is based on your opinion.

EXPERT opinion. Admissable in court.

In court however they make the expert explain exactly how he came to that opinion (My Cousin Vinny).

[THE_BEYONDER]

Just in this one case since it's become a serious credibility issue they should pull back the curtain.

We want to believe-please-help us.

Seriously, in this case I think you can work it out backwards...

 

All comics are trimmed...

Re-trimmed may be obvious...

Subtle spot re-trimming will be difficult...

Subtle spot micro-trimming done with finesse may be nearly impossible...

 

At some point it flips over into "best guess" or "judgment call" territory. How could it not?

 

 

 

 

CGC doesn't make judgement calls.

Make, certify and sell.

 

Judgement Call - noun. : a decision that is based on your opinion.

 

Restoration isn't a matter of opinion.

[VintageComics]

Here's hoping we don't have to deal with the same song & dance of "All you have to do is ask"....and the disclosure will automatically be proactive.

 

[mysterio]

Just in this one case since it's become a serious credibility issue they should pull back the curtain.

We want to believe-please-help us.

Seriously, in this case I think you can work it out backwards...

 

All comics are trimmed...

Re-trimmed may be obvious...

Subtle spot re-trimming will be difficult...

Subtle spot micro-trimming done with finesse may be nearly impossible...

 

At some point it flips over into "best guess" or "judgment call" territory. How could it not?

 

 

 

 

CGC doesn't make judgement calls.

Make, certify and sell.

 

Judgement Call - noun. : a decision that is based on your opinion.

EXPERT opinion. Admissable in court.

In court however they make the expert explain exactly how he came to that opinion (My Cousin Vinny).

 

I thought they were "comic professionals" not "comic experts". That may be the difference on purpose to avoid those circumstances.

[kav]

Just in this one case since it's become a serious credibility issue they should pull back the curtain.

We want to believe-please-help us.

Seriously, in this case I think you can work it out backwards...

 

All comics are trimmed...

Re-trimmed may be obvious...

Subtle spot re-trimming will be difficult...

Subtle spot micro-trimming done with finesse may be nearly impossible...

 

At some point it flips over into "best guess" or "judgment call" territory. How could it not?

 

 

 

 

CGC doesn't make judgement calls.

Make, certify and sell.

 

Judgement Call - noun. : a decision that is based on your opinion.

 

Restoration isn't a matter of opinion.

It shouldn't be. I want facts.

[Davenport]

Just in this one case since it's become a serious credibility issue they should pull back the curtain.

We want to believe-please-help us.

Seriously, in this case I think you can work it out backwards...

 

All comics are trimmed...

Re-trimmed may be obvious...

Subtle spot re-trimming will be difficult...

Subtle spot micro-trimming done with finesse may be nearly impossible...

 

At some point it flips over into "best guess" or "judgment call" territory. How could it not?

 

 

 

 

CGC doesn't make judgement calls.

Make, certify and sell.

 

Judgement Call - noun. : a decision that is based on your opinion.

 

Restoration isn't a matter of opinion.

That's why God created caveats.