Ive lost ALL confidence in CGC - UPDATE on page 221 2 2

[Wampler]

203 pages in; We can @#$@ all we want. Poor guy got hosed, and CGC don't care, and never will.

 

This is just a fact it will always be like this.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Wampler

[kav]

Customer satisfaction used to be job one....

[MetalPSI]

Customer satisfaction used to be job one....

 

Now we live in a time of "good enough"

 

Its not the best, but people are buying, so its good enough.

 

Only 1 out 50 ignition switches are causing fires? Good enough.

 

The building looks like carp, but structurally is passes the bare minimum code? Good enough

 

The pipe is old but it meets tolerance levels? Good enough

 

The medicine causes discomfort but has no life threatening side effects? Good enough

 

The radiation only affects people in the area of 10 ft squared over eight hours? Good enough

 

This system has been designed to maximize profit. At ALL costs. Don't believe me? Get an MBA from any university in the free world.

 

Greed rules all and those who don't want to follow suit are left wing crackpots or communists.

 

Welcome to the 21st century

[MatterEaterLad]

What if micro-trimming is as prevalent and undetected as pressing was in the early days?

 

[kav]

What if micro-trimming is as prevalent and undetected as pressing was in the early days?

 

Believe me-IT IS.

[Spider-Dan]

I worked on the Assembly line for years...

 

Quality is Job #1!! Until something happens to slow the line down, then production numbers become Job #1and we will deal with the Quality issue IF and when it ever arises down the road

[mschmidt]

What if micro-trimming is as prevalent and undetected as pressing was in the early days?

 

Believe me-IT IS.

 

[MetalPSI]

I worked on the Assembly line for years...

 

Quality is Job #1!! Until something happens to slow the line down, then production numbers become Job #1and we will deal with the Quality issue IF and when it ever arises down the road

 

Contradictory

[Lost]

Not sure I'm following the sources of crankiness.

 

Mad at cgc for detecting it the second time when cgc states that detected restoration is made on the label thus implying that there is such a thing as undetected restoration. If we can all accept subjectivity with changing grades on resubs...A change of label doesn't seem so unacceptable to me.

 

Mad at cgc for making the same mistake twice is fine but maybe the restoration detection people were different this books third time graded. And even if not, im sure i've made a mistake or two on my job.

 

Mad at cgc for their responses. Whatever. How many different ways can they say they screwed up for you all to be happy.

 

Time to find new sources of anger. Let's get mad at the crack and resubmit gamers around here. Let's get mad at the buyers who shun purple books. Lets get mad at the trimmers.

 

Because at the end of the day this changes nothing with people doing business with them.

[chrisco37]

A few of comments regarding this thread based on my experience on the boards and having been around for all the board controversies:

 

1. Paul came on and gave the response for CGC. I would be (pleasantly) surprised if we got anything further from CGC. If you are waiting for anything more, I hope you aren't holding your breath.

 

2. The likelihood of CGC divulging their trim detection methods is even less of a possibility than a follow-up response.

 

3. Anyone surprised at the 6 to 7 to 6 grade changes obviously hasn't been around long enough. That has happened numerous times (as we've seen in the past and based on some peoples first hand accounts in this thread alone). PQ changes are even more common.

 

4. Bob S. a mod and/or CGC apologist....that might be one of the ridiculous things I've ever read here. And I've been around these boards a long time. It might be hilarious if it wasn't so stupid.

[kav]

Ps to any company-it's not good when customers are constantly wishing there was a competitor they could go to.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Ps to any company-it's not good when customers are constantly wishing there was a competitor they could go to.

That sounds like EBAY.

How many times do we hear if only EBay had some competition?

 

[Davenport]

What if micro-trimming is as prevalent and undetected as pressing was in the early days?

 

With the risk/reward factor, and so many other manipulations officially green-lit, it'd be very surprising if trims weren't in play fairly often.

 

The risk is measured in dollars, not years in prison or a body count. Casinos attract crowds of those kinds of risk takers. They're not rare.

[mar-vell]

I'm no CGC zombie but this is almost too good to be true for anti CGCers. Smells like a set-up.

The purple label 7.0 was graded before the blue label 6.0. Plus, why would anyone want to go to the expense for a setup? There's really nothing to be gained other than bad press and the CGC certainly doesn't need anyone's help in that regard.

 

Certification #: 0227546002

Title: Journey Into Mystery

Issue: 83

Issue Date: 8/62

Issue Year: 1962

Publisher: Marvel Comics

Grade: 7.0

Pedigree: COVER TRIMMED

Page Quality: OFF-WHITE TO WHITE

Label Text: TOP EDGE OF COVER TRIMMED.

Grade Date: 02/14/2014

Category: Apparent

Art Comments: Stan Lee story

Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko art

Jack Kirby cover

Key Comments: Origin and 1st appearance of Thor

(Doctor Don Blake).

 

 

Certification #: 0230667003

Title: Journey Into Mystery

Issue: 83

Issue Date: 8/62

Issue Year: 1962

Publisher: Marvel Comics

Grade: 6.0

Page Quality: OFF-WHITE

Grade Date: 03/27/2014

Category: Universal

Art Comments: Stan Lee story

Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko art

Jack Kirby cover

Key Comments: Origin and 1st appearance of Thor

(Doctor Don Blake).

 

What really confuses me are the grade dates. Only several weeks apart. This book and all the hoopla had to be fresh in their memories. You'd have to be completely incompetent for not a single CGC employee to go, "Hey isn't this the comic we just had all the....."

 

And how did it get graded so quickly. If you factor in the shipping times from CGC to customer, customer sells it to next person, then customer shipsback to CGC... that has to take awhile. How did this book get graded so fast? Did someone pay for a walkthrough?

 

At that value, walk-thru is the only option

 

- thought so- i just paid big bucks to have them grade my AF15 would have been upset if there was a way to sneak it in for a lesser fee.

 

BTW my condolences this is a nightmare scenario i have dreaded anytime i send a big dollar book in to get graded. I still think CGC is pretty reliable but human error is a factor that just can't be removed from the equation no matter how hard they try.

[mar-vell]

Comics Guaranty LLC

 

We don't actually guarantee much, but we're a bit better at detecting resto than a few people.

 

Buy from us! (thumbs u

 

Reminds me of Moody's, Standard & Poor's, and Fitch Group. All they sell is their opinion so if you buy a CDO that is junk that was rated AAA by them you are screwed and there is nothing you can do about it.

[skypinkblu]

What if micro-trimming is as prevalent and undetected as pressing was in the early days?

 

With the risk/reward factor, and so many other manipulations officially green-lit, it'd be very surprising if trims weren't in play fairly often.

 

The risk is measured in dollars, not years in prison or a body count. Casinos attract crowds of those kinds of risk takers. They're not rare.

 

I don't know if Micro trimming is even the issue here, we are just guessing, but the "Casino" factor is an issue.

 

Someone buys a book that was graded, EXPECTING it to grade higher...expecting the SAME company to grade it higher. He said he thought it would be a 6.5.

 

There is a risk factor there, Dan has said that...sometimes he "wins" sometimes he loses...but isn't his whole business model based on the fact that he does NOT expect CGC to be consistent?

 

If he kept the book slabbed as a 6.0, he wouldn't have lost a thing.

 

The book could have come back a 5.5, would he have been damaged then?

 

When something is slightly inconsistent, it doesn't always mean it's going to be a higher grade.

 

I keep reading about how he was harmed...but in truth, the person he had traded with wanted to cancel the deal before it was finalized. Dan didn't want to do that, he wanted the complete the trade and it appears he had plans for that specific book...obviously he was sure his potential reward was worth the risk.

 

Risk/Reward...it's a gambling term.

 

People who actually buy things based on the expected inconsistencies in grading are gambling.

 

Remember, Dan told us in the last thread, that this book was not pressed...so it was a straight gamble, based it seems on previous inconsistencies.

 

He did not say at any time that he was not gambling.

 

 

If it was a huge percentage of just plain too tight grading, we'd have half the forum doing the same thing that Dan does.

 

I'm sure it's a small percentage, but there are people who scour slabs for the gamble. You don't always win when you gamble...this time it was just a little odder than the normal risks because of the color label change.

 

There are always going to be inconsistencies where humans are involved.

 

I wonder what the percentage is of forum members who crack DO NOT PRESS and reslab?

 

Now, anyone who does try that...knows that there could be another potential loss, label color.

 

More risk for the potential reward.

[skypinkblu]

Oh, and I have nothing against gamblers at all...but none of the ones I know would start a thread, .

 

They like to keep their secrets for potential wins, secret.

[greggy]

Oh, and I have nothing against gamblers at all...but none of the ones I know would start a thread, .

 

They like to keep their secrets for potential wins, secret.

[blue808]

Oh, and I have nothing against gamblers at all...but none of the ones I know would start a thread, .

 

They like to keep their secrets for potential wins, secret.

 

[mar-vell]

 

 

I wonder what the percentage is of forum members who crack DO NOT PRESS and reslab?

 

 

 

Well I do that sort of. But its out of eccentricity I guess not to turn a profit.Although I love profits I am very much a collector. I bought a large percentage of my books slabbed because the product was simply higher quality than raw and cracked almost every one and put them in my collection.

 

When i resell the big dollar books i simply have to recert in order to reach top market value. I went through this recently with my copy of AF15. I bought it 9 years ago as a CGC 5.5 and cracked it open and put it in my collection. I read it about once a year over that time period. The value of the book rose so much recently that i felt i just had to move it as I am looking to buy some property this year.

 

I sent it back to CGC and was a bit nervous even though I was confident the book was in the exact same condition as it was when i cracked it. I countered this by sending the old blue label in with the book waving a flag to CGC saying "I hope this doesn't come back a 5.0!" which made me feel a little better about it. Even still i knew it could regrade under 5.5 and felt there was a slight shot it could come back a 6.0 as well. The end result was it came back universal 5.5 and i sold it in a week for a very nice profit. So by cracking it open i paid $460 dollars to enjoy reading the book for 9 years when i felt like it but there was the risk it could cost me more. I would imagine I am not the only collector who does this but I think I am in the minority.