Ive lost ALL confidence in CGC - UPDATE on page 221 2 2

[RockMyAmadeus]

I just wish I had a 221st page.

[Flaming_Telepath]

I

Now, I'm the same guy doing the grading over the past 13 years.

 

With CGC...not so much. Actually, not at all.

 

Perhaps you became a better grader or learned to grade differently in those 13 years so as to align with CGC and make your customers happier (never over-grading)?

 

Subconsciously or otherwise...

 

I think if I were attempting to align with CGC, my grading would have gotten looser, given that I was undergrading 30% of the subs and only over-grading 10%?

 

My other point of reference relates to the resubmission of books that were graded during the early years. I can't say that I've seen hundreds, but I have handled a fair few, and in all cases, the books have come back at the same grade or higher, never lower.

[drbanner]

No doubt, CGC's grading standards have slowly and systematically degraded over the years, especially in the higher grades. In the early days of CGC, they were as tight as... These days it's more like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get so you just hope for the best and that you're not getting a final resting place book or a hot potato.

 

Final resting place book - a book that no one in their right mind would ever resubmit as it's obviously a gift grade, the book has been damaged in the holder, it's one of the pre-change in tape policy taped books, etc.

[Comicopolis]

Maybe we could compare CGC's published grading standards from 2001 to 2014?

[Conan_Aficionado]

 

Final resting place book - it's one of the pre-change in tape policy taped books, etc.

 

because of this change in policy, I'm completely avoiding slabbed books with tape.

[drbanner]

Final resting place book - it's one of the pre-change in tape policy taped books, etc.

because of this change in policy, I'm completely avoiding slabbed books with tape.

Well, in theory if the book was graded after the change in policy, you're getting a nicer looking book than if it was graded before the change. Just look up the date of certification and grader's notes to see how the tape was handled. (thumbs u

[Conan_Aficionado]

We might know to check, but there are going to be many who wont know about the change in policy and wont know to check or how to check or even to check. I forget the date already, when did the policy change again???

[drbanner]

"Books submitted for grading that are postmarked after May 3 (2013) will be subject to new standards regarding cellophane tape."

 

However, you'll have to check the grader's notes to know whether the tape "serves a function" or not, because if it serves a function (seals a tear), the book won't be downgraded for the tape damage:

 

"After consideration of the expressed views of the community and assessment of the practice, beginning with submissions postmarked after May 3, 2013, CGC will modify its grading standard and ignore the presence of tape if it serves a function (such as fixing a tear or spine split) and instead grade the book as if it was not present. Therefore, any existing defect will be graded accordingly. If the tape does not serve a function, the tape will be treated as a defect and the book will be downgraded. By doing this, books will still receive a Universal Label but the grade will better reflect the actual condition of the comic book."

[VintageComics]

I strongly disagree about the 2 year tight period though my experience is more in the 6.0 to 9.4 range books.

 

.

 

As I said, I deal primarily with books in the 9.2 - 9.8 ranges and while I've had a nearly 80% success rate since about 2004 at guessing the grades on submissions were going to be, that dropped to around 50% over that two year period with most books being graded tighter than expected.

[Conan_Aficionado]

That just means that they wont downgrade for the presence of tape, but since it serves the function of sealing a tear, the tear will be considered on it's merits and thus the book will never the less be downgraded because the tear is no longer considered sealed. Either way, buying a pre-policy change taped book means you are buying a book that's over-graded.

 

 

[VintageComics]

I

Now, I'm the same guy doing the grading over the past 13 years.

 

With CGC...not so much. Actually, not at all.

 

Perhaps you became a better grader or learned to grade differently in those 13 years so as to align with CGC and make your customers happier (never over-grading)?

 

Subconsciously or otherwise...

 

That was my thought as well (minus the align with CGC part).

 

Nick's raw books have always been tighter than CGC for as long as I can remember.

The most noteworthy example of that was when Nick sold the Mildenhall collection and his raw 8.5's were coming back as slabbed 9.2/9.4's

 

When was that? Circa 2006/2007?

 

 

[drbanner]

Either way, buying a pre-policy change taped book means you are buying a book that's over-graded.

Exactly...and if you consider the presence of tape to be a defect, then even a post-policy change taped book is over-graded if the tape seals a tear, reattaches a cover, etc. So really, only those books with tape that just happens to be on the book for no reason are accurately graded, as only in this scenario has CGC down-graded the book for the tape damage/defect. (thumbs u

[Flaming_Telepath]

No doubt, CGC's grading standards have slowly and systematically degraded over the years, especially in the higher grades. In the early days of CGC, they were as tight as... These days it's more like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get so you just hope for the best and that you're not getting a final resting place book or a hot potato.

 

Final resting place book - a book that no one in their right mind would ever resubmit as it's obviously a gift grade, the book has been damaged in the holder, it's one of the pre-change in tape policy taped books, etc.

 

For those who don't know Mike, he's one of the tightest, most accurate and knowledgeable graders I have dealt with in 30 years of seriously collecting comics.

 

To me, his opinion is pretty much gospel.

[drbanner]

For those who don't know Mike, he's one of the tightest, most accurate and knowledgeable graders I have dealt with in 30 years of seriously collecting comics.

 

Back in the day I did okay, but I've been out of the dealing/flipping side of the hobby for 4 or 5 years now and these days just occasionally sell dupes or various books out of my collection when I want to add/buy something new so my grading skills have degraded.

 

Even so, I often find myself biting my lip when I see folks celebrating their latest over-graded pickup, or pimping some over-graded in the marketplace or other venues. I've always valued nice looking books (well-centered, square, good color, nice page quality) and paid less attention to physical defects like spine stress or creases, but since CGC is all about spine stress and creases it's just so obvious when over-graded VF's and NM's pop up.

[pickycollector]

"Books submitted for grading that are postmarked after May 3 (2013) will be subject to new standards regarding cellophane tape."

 

However, you'll have to check the grader's notes to know whether the tape "serves a function" or not, because if it serves a function (seals a tear), the book won't be downgraded for the tape damage:

 

"After consideration of the expressed views of the community and assessment of the practice, beginning with submissions postmarked after May 3, 2013, CGC will modify its grading standard and ignore the presence of tape if it serves a function (such as fixing a tear or spine split) and instead grade the book as if it was not present. Therefore, any existing defect will be graded accordingly. If the tape does not serve a function, the tape will be treated as a defect and the book will be downgraded. By doing this, books will still receive a Universal Label but the grade will better reflect the actual condition of the comic book."

[pickycollector]

No doubt, CGC's grading standards have slowly and systematically degraded over the years, especially in the higher grades. In the early days of CGC, they were as tight as... These days it's more like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get so you just hope for the best and that you're not getting a final resting place book or a hot potato.

 

Final resting place book - a book that no one in their right mind would ever resubmit as it's obviously a gift grade, the book has been damaged in the holder, it's one of the pre-change in tape policy taped books, etc.

 

For those who don't know Mike, he's one of the tightest, most accurate and knowledgeable graders I have dealt with in 30 years of seriously collecting comics.

 

To me, his opinion is pretty much gospel.

+1

 

I would prefer to buy raw books from Mike than any CGC book, especially those recently graded

[rjpb]

No doubt, CGC's grading standards have slowly and systematically degraded over the years, especially in the higher grades. In the early days of CGC, they were as tight as... These days it's more like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get so you just hope for the best and that you're not getting a final resting place book or a hot potato.

 

Final resting place book - a book that no one in their right mind would ever resubmit as it's obviously a gift grade, the book has been damaged in the holder, it's one of the pre-change in tape policy taped books, etc.

 

For those who don't know Mike, he's one of the tightest, most accurate and knowledgeable graders I have dealt with in 30 years of seriously collecting comics.

 

To me, his opinion is pretty much gospel.

+1

 

I would prefer to buy raw books from Mike than any CGC book, especially those recently graded

 

(thumbs u

[rjpb]

For those who don't know Mike, he's one of the tightest, most accurate and knowledgeable graders I have dealt with in 30 years of seriously collecting comics.

 

Back in the day I did okay, but I've been out of the dealing/flipping side of the hobby for 4 or 5 years now and these days just occasionally sell dupes or various books out of my collection when I want to add/buy something new so my grading skills have degraded.

 

Even so, I often find myself biting my lip when I see folks celebrating their latest over-graded pickup, or pimping some over-graded in the marketplace or other venues. I've always valued nice looking books (well-centered, square, good color, nice page quality) and paid less attention to physical defects like spine stress or creases, but since CGC is all about spine stress and creases it's just so obvious when over-graded VF's and NM's pop up.

 

I cringe whenever someone on the grading forum posts a clear gift grade from CGC and gets a round of congratulations, when clearly no one doing so would pay the grade price for such a book. What is being congratulated? That someone now has an overgraded book, that if they decide to sell, hopefully someone else will buy the label not the grade?

 

I will say with my limited experience both buying and selling GA CGC books that I believe to be obviously overgraded, that they tend to sell for closer to what they appear to be, than what CGC has said they are.

[originalisbest]

I think it's definitely a good policy to pat one's self on the back, that you are an "obviously better" grader than what CGC is able to manage -- in particular, with your grading opinions based on web images. Well done!

 

As well, it's a great deal of fun to squelch someone's joy over a new purchase they might be showing off. Particularly if you can convince them that what they actually have is utter drek, and that they would be most fortunate if you were to relieve them of it -- at an appropriately discounted price.

 

"Final resting place book" -- not that big a deal, there are umpteens of such things around, in coins (they're called "coffins" in that case), or in anything certified. Inevitably, this is the natural order of things, as anything perceived as undergraded and worth the time to try, will be resubmitted. So you'll have some books undergraded, awaiting eventual resubmission by somebody, some appropriately graded, and some "final resting place" books that will sell for whatever they sell for (there will of course, also be books that stay raw forever, either they're not worth grading, or the owners may not wish to have slabs in their collection.)

 

For any "final resting place" book, if it's that clear of a "mistake" grade, then the book will find an appropriate price level regardless of the slab grade. It might even get cracked out, if the buyer just wants a raw copy. Whateves.

[originalisbest]

For those who don't know Mike, he's one of the tightest, most accurate and knowledgeable graders I have dealt with in 30 years of seriously collecting comics.

 

Back in the day I did okay, but I've been out of the dealing/flipping side of the hobby for 4 or 5 years now and these days just occasionally sell dupes or various books out of my collection when I want to add/buy something new so my grading skills have degraded.

 

Even so, I often find myself biting my lip when I see folks celebrating their latest over-graded pickup, or pimping some over-graded in the marketplace or other venues. I've always valued nice looking books (well-centered, square, good color, nice page quality) and paid less attention to physical defects like spine stress or creases, but since CGC is all about spine stress and creases it's just so obvious when over-graded VF's and NM's pop up.

 

I care about spine stress and creases.