Ive lost ALL confidence in CGC - UPDATE on page 221 2 2

[THE_BEYONDER]

Also, KUDOS to him for being an upstanding business man in doing so.

 

SHAME on all the people who try to attack the buyer for resubbing it as if there is something unusual or untoward with taking an obvious and logical action

 

Shame my backside! That's precisely what it was, nothing but a business decision. But guess what? Some of us are fed up to here with those who treat comics as nothing but a business.

 

 

Really?!? Do you BUY your comics? I wonder where from?

 

Does your LCS treat comics as a business? Shame on them!

 

 

It's a bit crass to cherry pick his statement in the out of context manner you did, and imply there's anything screwy about it. He's specifically talking about the crack, (with or without a press) and resubmit play, which you conveniently omitted. Regardless of whether you see the trend of hobby demand shrinking on anything outside the 10-15 books everyone wants as being problematic, it certainly is telling to see the voracious appetites of those trying to game the system, especially when you look at how the timeline of this situation began on Valentines Day with your post and ended with Paul's post three days ago, and how it's allowed the community to see the exact same book resubbed three times in the space of two months. If this were a drug, someone would have already intervened and warned of the addiction potential.

 

Don't you think its a little crass to say "If you're going to play the crack and resubmit game, you better be prepared to lose some of the time. And don't you come crying to this board to get sympathy. Most of us will just snicker" (I did leave that part out)

Im not looking for sympathy. I brought this to the attention of a community of people who I thought might want to know about it.

 

While I appreciate you posting about the matter, the situation and result is too convoluted to really come out of this thinking anything was gained.

 

As for your disagreement in Hep's comments, there will always be a baseline sentiment that thwarts any thought of looking at comics as a commodity or investment. I don't think anything will change this, even when it's a situation where it seems the little guy won.

 

Overall, I'm glad you got the resolution you deserved, but the whole situation leaves my confidence more shaken learning this incident happened, especially knowing there was a need for this book to be graded multiple times to get it right.

 

How can you be sure that it's now 'right'?

[BEAUMONTS]

 

How can you be sure that it's now 'right'?

Because now it is a "for sure maybe" (thumbs u

[VintageComics]

Anybody who tells you different has skin in the game.

Anyone who says CGC's grades are looser now obviously has skin in the game. How else would you know they are looser? It's plain from your comments that you have been taking advantage of CGC's services. And if they are giving you looser grades there is obviously some shenanigans going on on your part. What have you done to grease the wheels and get looser grades?

 

(Isn't it amazing how all of that irrelevant wildly_fanciful_statement could be gleaned from one stupid post? )

 

Here is my counter overblown, hyperbolic, pompous windbag statement - Anyone who thinks that having "skin in the game" negates your comments obviously has either 1) more "skin in the game" than you, or 2) an inability to have a reasonable adult conversation. Yep, I just called the Telepath a bunch of mean names. But I have "skin in the game" so they shouldn't mean anything to him.

 

Just for your information, Richard, I have not personally, or as part of Comicana Direct, submitted a single book.

 

Ever.

 

All submission have been on behalf of customers.

 

Hope that this doesn't spoil your fun.

 

But you do buy, sell and trade CGC graded books.

 

And you don't crack out an AF #15 CGC 6.5 and sell it as a raw 4.5, so you have 'skin in the game'.

 

The real point is that everyone has skin in the game.

 

Argue the facts not the people.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Anybody who tells you different has skin in the game.

Anyone who says CGC's grades are looser now obviously has skin in the game. How else would you know they are looser? It's plain from your comments that you have been taking advantage of CGC's services. And if they are giving you looser grades there is obviously some shenanigans going on on your part. What have you done to grease the wheels and get looser grades?

 

(Isn't it amazing how all of that irrelevant wildly_fanciful_statement could be gleaned from one stupid post? )

 

Here is my counter overblown, hyperbolic, pompous windbag statement - Anyone who thinks that having "skin in the game" negates your comments obviously has either 1) more "skin in the game" than you, or 2) an inability to have a reasonable adult conversation. Yep, I just called the Telepath a bunch of mean names. But I have "skin in the game" so they shouldn't mean anything to him.

 

Just for your information, Richard, I have not personally, or as part of Comicana Direct, submitted a single book.

 

Ever.

 

All submission have been on behalf of customers.

 

Hope that this doesn't spoil your fun.

 

But you do buy, sell and trade CGC graded books.

 

And you don't crack out an AF #15 CGC 6.5 and sell it as a raw 4.5, so you have 'skin in the game'.

 

The real point is that everyone has skin in the game.

 

Argue the facts not the people.

 

You can't argue the facts.

[VintageComics]

You can't argue the facts.

 

Good point and that's just poor grammar on my part. Discuss them.

 

If someone is stating that CGC is loose then they should post scans showing how and why they are loose, not try to character assissinate someone who disagrees with them.

 

I've posted tons of scans of books that I thought were tight in previous threads. I've also seen some loose books.

 

CGC has been inconsistent of late but as I qualified in a previous post, in the 8.5-9.8 grade range that I submit books they were tighter than they have been.

[THE_BEYONDER]

You can't argue the facts.

 

Good point and that's just poor grammar on my part. Discuss them.

 

If someone is stating that CGC is loose then they should post scans showing how and why they are loose, not try to character assissinate someone who disagrees with them.

 

I've posted tons of scans of books that I thought were tight in previous threads. I've also seen some loose books.

 

CGC has been inconsistent of late but as I qualified in a previous post, in the 8.5-9.8 grade range that I submit books they were tighter than they have been.

 

 

 

Do you post scans of your books that you feel CGC went easy on?

 

[Comicopolis]

Anybody who tells you different has skin in the game.

Anyone who says CGC's grades are looser now obviously has skin in the game. How else would you know they are looser? It's plain from your comments that you have been taking advantage of CGC's services. And if they are giving you looser grades there is obviously some shenanigans going on on your part. What have you done to grease the wheels and get looser grades?

 

(Isn't it amazing how all of that irrelevant wildly_fanciful_statement could be gleaned from one stupid post? )

 

Here is my counter overblown, hyperbolic, pompous windbag statement - Anyone who thinks that having "skin in the game" negates your comments obviously has either 1) more "skin in the game" than you, or 2) an inability to have a reasonable adult conversation. Yep, I just called the Telepath a bunch of mean names. But I have "skin in the game" so they shouldn't mean anything to him.

 

Just for your information, Richard, I have not personally, or as part of Comicana Direct, submitted a single book.

 

Ever.

 

All submission have been on behalf of customers.

 

Hope that this doesn't spoil your fun.

 

But you do buy, sell and trade CGC graded books.

 

And you don't crack out an AF #15 CGC 6.5 and sell it as a raw 4.5, so you have 'skin in the game'.

 

The real point is that everyone has skin in the game.

 

Argue the facts not the people.

 

He is not selling his books.

 

The AF book you mention above, as an example of course, is not his book to crack out.

 

And no, not everyone has skin in the game.

[Jiminy_Cricket-migration]

Also, KUDOS to him for being an upstanding business man in doing so.

 

SHAME on all the people who try to attack the buyer for resubbing it as if there is something unusual or untoward with taking an obvious and logical action

 

Shame my backside! That's precisely what it was, nothing but a business decision. But guess what? Some of us are fed up to here with those who treat comics as nothing but a business.

 

 

Really?!? Do you BUY your comics? I wonder where from?

 

Does your LCS treat comics as a business? Shame on them!

 

 

It's a bit crass to cherry pick his statement in the out of context manner you did, and imply there's anything screwy about it. He's specifically talking about the crack, (with or without a press) and resubmit play, which you conveniently omitted. Regardless of whether you see the trend of hobby demand shrinking on anything outside the 10-15 books everyone wants as being problematic, it certainly is telling to see the voracious appetites of those trying to game the system, especially when you look at how the timeline of this situation began on Valentines Day with your post and ended with Paul's post three days ago, and how it's allowed the community to see the exact same book resubbed three times in the space of two months. If this were a drug, someone would have already intervened and warned of the addiction potential.

 

Don't you think its a little crass to say "If you're going to play the crack and resubmit game, you better be prepared to lose some of the time. And don't you come crying to this board to get sympathy. Most of us will just snicker" (I did leave that part out)

Im not looking for sympathy. I brought this to the attention of a community of people who I thought might want to know about it.

 

While I appreciate you posting about the matter, the situation and result is too convoluted to really come out of this thinking anything was gained.

 

As for your disagreement in Hep's comments, there will always be a baseline sentiment that thwarts any thought of looking at comics as a commodity or investment. I don't think anything will change this, even when it's a situation where it seems the little guy won.

 

Overall, I'm glad you got the resolution you deserved, but the whole situation leaves my confidence more shaken learning this incident happened, especially knowing there was a need for this book to be graded multiple times to get it right.

 

How can you be sure that it's now 'right'?

I can't wait till the next person re-submits it.

[rjpb]

 

You can't argue the facts.

 

Someone should tell that to the political blogosphere.

[VintageComics]

He is not selling his books.

 

The AF book you mention above, as an example of course, is not his book to crack out.

 

And no, not everyone has skin in the game.

 

I realize that he is not selling his personal books but the point is that he is in the business of selling CGC graded books. So he has skin in the game.

 

And I shouldn't have said everyone. I should have said "we both have skin in the game". Obviously not everyone does - possibly yourself and Mother Theresa included (I'm not sure if either of you collect CGC graded books).

 

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

Do you post scans of your books that you feel CGC went easy on?

 

I almost exclusively submit books in higher grades and don't remember the last time I saw a "loose" 9.4 in my submissions.

 

That's why I asked to see his.

 

Arguing "CGC was tighter back in the day" to me is no different than when board members go into the "Please Grade My" section and all throw tight grades out at the OP's books. Everyone is always the tighest grader, but that's not what is important here.

 

This whole CGC is tight / loose discussion is ridiculous. They've been loose / tight since 1999 in reoccurring cycles.

 

I know because I resubmit books from various time periods. Sometimes they go up in grade, sometimes they go down and sometimes they stay the same.

[Comicopolis]

He is not selling his books.

 

The AF book you mention above, as an example of course, is not his book to crack out.

 

And no, not everyone has skin in the game.

 

I realize that he is not selling his personal books but the point is that he is in the business of selling CGC graded books. So he has skin in the game.

 

And I shouldn't have said everyone. I should have said "we both have skin in the game". Obviously not everyone does - possibly yourself and Mother Theresa included (I'm not sure if either of you collect CGC graded books).

 

 

 

 

Well MT is dead - so I suppose that is about your usual level of knowledge.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Argue the facts not the people.

 

That is not possible here.

 

Far too many people have their egos and emotions wrapped around their arguments.

 

Disagree with me = personal attack.

 

Sad, but true.

[blazingbob]

Must be nice to not be at the show "working"

 

My response to you not working as hard as me will now be responded with "I don't work as hard as you do when it comes to posting on the boards".

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

You can't argue the facts.

 

Fascinating.

 

[Hulksdaddy1]

Just an FYI, my last sub had 5 resubs from 3 different customers. 2 were cracked, 3 were still in holders. 4 have been graded, all came back the same grade as before. 3 were old labels. The last one should be done in a few weeks.

 

 

[Jiminy_Cricket-migration]

Must be nice to not be at the show "working"

 

My response to you not working as hard as me will now be responded with "I don't work as hard as you do when it comes to posting on the boards".

[gaz973]

You can't argue the facts.

 

Good point and that's just poor grammar on my part. Discuss them.

 

If someone is stating that CGC is loose then they should post scans showing how and why they are loose, not try to character assissinate someone who disagrees with them.

 

I've posted tons of scans of books that I thought were tight in previous threads. I've also seen some loose books.

 

CGC has been inconsistent of late but as I qualified in a previous post, in the 8.5-9.8 grade range that I submit books they were tighter than they have been.

I don't have scans but I had a handful of books in Comicana's most recent submission to CGC for the first time in a few years and some of mine are probably what Nick is referring to.

 

I've only heard three grades back so far but all are higher than I would grade them.

 

A Daredevil # 1 that I had for sale as FN/VF and CGC graded as 7.5 Of course when selling, I'll mention the fact that it has a fairly large name written in pen on the splash page whereas the only way to find that out from CGC would be to pay for graders notes.

 

An ASM # 15 which came out of a 7.5 old label holder and has now ended up in an 8.5 holder. I like old labels so I wouldn't have resubmitted it if not for the cracked holder. I've had it in my collection for a couple of years and it's just going back into my collection.

 

An ASM # 9 which Nick sold to me as a FN+ and I completely agree with him due to the significant colour breaking crease on the front cover so no way should that've ended up in the 8.0 holder that it found itself in. CGC did actually find a small piece of colour touch that had not been known before so it actually ended up with a PLOD. Of course, Nick being the sort of dealer with excellent customer service is refunding me the purchase price and grading fees on it.

 

So there we go, all books that I've heard grades for so far have been slightly to greatly overgraded.

[RockMyAmadeus]

CGC did actually find a small piece of colour touch that had not been known before so it actually ended up with a PLOD. Of course, Nick being the sort of dealer with excellent customer service is refunding me the purchase price and grading fees on it.

 

This little gem should not be missed.

 

Excellente!

[gaz973]

CGC did actually find a small piece of colour touch that had not been known before so it actually ended up with a PLOD. Of course, Nick being the sort of dealer with excellent customer service is refunding me the purchase price and grading fees on it.

 

This little gem should not be missed.

 

Excellente!

Thank you for highlighting that. (thumbs u

 

Also worth mentioning that I didn't have to ask for that refund, Nick told me that I'd be refunded as he was telling me that the book got a PLOD.