more Cool Lines deceit: misrepresented/modified art 1 1

[Stalzer2002]

Coollines has pages from Thunderbolts 12 by Mark Bagley with dialogue on the art.

 

http://www.coollinesartwork.com/featured.asp?Piece=297522

 

Yet none of Mike Burkey's Bagley Thunderbolts pages have dialogue, including several from the very same issue.

 

http://www.romitaman.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=15441&ArtistId=970

[Catwoman_Fan]

Coollines has pages from Thunderbolts 12 by Mark Bagley with dialogue on the art.

 

http://www.coollinesartwork.com/featured.asp?Piece=297522

 

Yet none of Mike Burkey's Bagley Thunderbolts pages have dialogue, including several from the very same issue.

 

http://www.romitaman.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=15441&ArtistId=970

 

Probably on an overlay. I'd like to do the same to some of my pages.

[Terry Doyle]

Personally, I don't have a problem with the idea of restoring/recreating logo/caption material to covers or pages that exist free from such material.

 

I do think it's criminal to transform pin-ups, or the like, to try to pass off as covers (Steve Donnelly take a bow).

 

Some years ago I had a friend assist in transforming my published cover to Crime Illustrated # 1 to how it looked in print (the original art existed as line-art, with two separate color overlays.

 

Here's the end-result (all the logo and caption material is removable):

 

 

And here's the write-up (from my CAF) that explains the process:

 

"My American friend, Lloyd Braddy, helped me enormously with this project . . .

 

All that originally existed of this cover was Joe Orlando's line art and two separate color overlays (one red, one yellow) positioned over the illustration of the corpse. No logo or caption box existed (which, presumably, had been incorporated during the printing process at time of publication).

 

Since buying the cover, from Ken Danker, I'd always wanted to have the original art look 'complete' - by way of having the CRIME ILLUSTRATED logo and "Introducing . . .PICTO-FICTION" caption box re-created and integrated with the original.

 

Thanks to Lloyd, who is a technical whizz-kid with printing processes (by way of profession), and a tip of the old hat to Ray Cuthbert (who had a copy of the original mag on hand for scanning purposes), Lloyd was able to provide two possible solutions for marrying the original art with the caption material.

 

One idea was a colour-matched print (reproduced at original art size) of the full cover . . . which would then have the central figure cut-out . . . and positioned over the original line-art and red/yellow overlays. The idea was excellent in theory, but very difficult to perform - as all the pool of blood patterns proved a real s.o.b to cut around!

 

The next option was to incorporate a clear mylar overlay that Lloyd had used a pigment printer to reproduce the caption material onto. This, to my mind, provided the best solution.

 

Taking the mylar sheet, the logo and caption box were trimmed close to the text . . . and positioned underneath the red and yellow overlays. The clear elements of the mylar and overlays allow the full board (with all imperfections, including some use of white-out) to be seen in total.

 

The end-result, I think, is particularly striking . . . especially when seen "in the flesh" at the original art's whopping size of 20" x 16"!"

[Koa]

Thanks guys......Now I understand some, but not all.

 

Let's put it in Walking Dead terms for you. Do you remember this one? The speech bubbles have been added to the art by printing the speech bubbles onto a clear acid free sheet and simply placing it on top before framing. It's pretty obvious in the pic below. The art isn't damaged, it's not glued down or anything, just laid on top.

 

Example taken from an ebay image (nothing to do with Cool Lines)

 

 

 

What Cool Lines are doing is virtually the same... but, the reports here are that they don't make it obvious on their site that they are showing an image of the art enhanced with an overlay on top.

 

An overlay that wasn't actually used in the production of the comic but something that could have been printed yesterday.

 

The overlay or other enhancement may be misrepresenting what the art actually is e.g. it looks like a cover now but never was a cover.

 

Finally it seems that they don't fully disclose things when asked.

 

 

I have had no prior dealings with Cool Lines other than to inquire once about a page a few months ago and respectfully decline the insane price. Just trying to sum up the thread a little for you. Make your own mind up here

 

 

 

It's absolutely NOT the same as adding a lettering overlay.

 

The Sam Kieth Predator vs Batman pin up was just that, a pin up. They turned it into a cover. it was never a cover. it never appeared in the state they now present it in.

 

 

 

[Terry Doyle]

 

The Sam Kieth Predator vs Batman pin up was just that, a pin up. They turned it into a cover. it was never a cover. it never appeared in the state they now present it in.

 

 

Totally agree. It's fraudulent.

[koollectablz]

No don't misunderstand.

 

The example I used - the Gene Day 'Dr Who' cover has not had the borders added with an overlay. They have been taken from either a blank piece or a damaged or valueless piece and added deliberately to defraud.

 

I'll say it again so no one can mistake me - they have added and altered the piece on purpose solely for financial gain and to cheat an unsuspecting customer.

 

How do I know?

 

I asked if any work whatsoever had been done to the piece (as I knew it previously from CAF and watched the auction on Heritage) mentioning the borders quite specifically and was told the piece was all original and that the borders were attached to the art and always had been.

 

As for the price? It's a free country they can choose to charge whatever they like. Likewise I and everyone else can choose to shop elsewhere.

[Flambit]

On 4/3/2014 at 1:59 PM, koollectablz said:

No don't misunderstand.

 

The example I used - the Gene Day 'Dr Who' cover has not had the borders added with an overlay. They have been taken from either a blank piece or a damaged or valueless piece and added deliberately to defraud.

 

I'll say it again so no one can mistake me - they have added and altered the piece on purpose solely for financial gain and to cheat an unsuspecting customer.

 

How do I know?

 

I asked if any work whatsoever had been done to the piece (as I knew it previously from CAF and watched the auction on Heritage) mentioning the borders quite specifically and was told the piece was all original and that the borders were attached to the art and always had been.

 

As for the price? It's a free country they can choose to charge whatever they like. Likewise I and everyone else can choose to shop elsewhere.

Look what just popped up on eBay!  For $8150!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/252853662254?ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F0%2Fe11021.m43.l1120%2F7%3Feuid%3D9a4f8eba89cc43658a0d6409bb672ead%26bu%3D43189834087%26loc%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fulk%252Fitm%252F252853662254%26sojTags%3Dbu%3Dbu%26srcrot%3De11021.m43.l1120%26rvr_id%3D0&ul_noapp=true

[jaybuck43]

3 hours ago, Flambit said:

Look what just popped up on eBay!  For $8150!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/252853662254?ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F0%2Fe11021.m43.l1120%2F7%3Feuid%3D9a4f8eba89cc43658a0d6409bb672ead%26bu%3D43189834087%26loc%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fulk%252Fitm%252F252853662254%26sojTags%3Dbu%3Dbu%26srcrot%3De11021.m43.l1120%26rvr_id%3D0&ul_noapp=true

Is it me or did they reink the piece as well?

[malvin]

3 hours ago, jaybuck43 said:

Is it me or did they reink the piece as well?

I never paid that close attention, but another friend said he noticed that on another piece, so it wouldn't surprise me if it happened on this one too.

Malvin

[thehumantorch]

4 hours ago, jaybuck43 said:

Is it me or did they reink the piece as well?

Crooks

[visarspike]

at least they have a 100% feedback on eBay, so all their clients (victims) are happy

[ESeffinga]

Edited April 12, 2017 by ESeffinga

[SquareChaos]

Anyone ever try reporting their auctions? Assuming people here are certain that they're misrepresenting pieces? I have no idea what eBay does in such a situation.

[Ironmandrd]

18 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

Anyone ever try reporting their auctions? Assuming people here are certain that they're misrepresenting pieces? I have no idea what eBay does in such a situation.

 I reported one to Ebay that I had personal knowledge of at least twice (maybe even three times) (inked-only cover that does not state that) and it does not appear as if Ebay ever did anything (maybe they contacted Coollines and Coollines refuted it and Ebay dropped it).  I also emailed Coollines the first time they posted it on their site--no response.

[zhamlau]

I feel bad for anyone who buys from Rich or Steve Donnelly. I cant imagine the universe where I would ever consider buying anything from them.

[Ironmandrd]

By the way, on the Doctor Who piece, how is is known for certain that Coollines bought it from HA (where it didn't have the borders)?  Did they post the piece right away after the HA auction?  Or did they post it on their site without the borders and then re-posted with the borders?  Is it possible that someone bought it from HA, had it mounted to a new board (or somehow otherwise added the borders), then traded or sold it to Coollines (who therefore may not have know about the non-original borders?)?  It fits within their MO to do something like this but just curious how certain people are that this is their doing.

[Squeezy McSphincter]

3 hours ago, SquareChaos said:

Anyone ever try reporting their auctions? Assuming people here are certain that they're misrepresenting pieces? I have no idea what eBay does in such a situation.

 

Someone on the boards (I can't remember who) a few months or a year ago really got on this.  A few posters started reporting obvious fakes, but ebay mostly ignored them.  I'm guessing that if ebay starts policing forgeries then they may open themselves up to liability when fakes get through, though that is just a guess.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Bubb Rubb
quoted a post in error!

[buyatari]

Not sure why this trick works. An unpublished cover is like an unhit homerun ball. 

Unpublished covers should be treated as all other unpublished work. The price should depend on the artist and the image alone. Why would anyone assign additional value to it for it not being a cover? Don't get it. 

[Rune]

I don't think the Donnellys make the overlays themselves - in fact I know James Pascoe worked on one of their pieces.

This is the original by Alex Ross (The Shadow #11 painted cover):

Then after Pascoe made the overlay:

Source: http://jamespascoe.net/site/Restoration_Galleries.html#3

And now you can buy it from the Donnellys:

http://www.coollinesartwork.com/Featured.asp?Piece=305317

Normally Pascoe is quite fair in his pricings, but of course Pascoe isn't free, still a 10x markup isn't justified by Pascoe's work. There's also Robert Dennis, rumor has it he's more expensive than Pascoe - and Dennis has made some impressive restorations:

http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerydetailsearch.asp?aty=1&gcat=57422&GSub=171440

I don't mind nice overlays made by experts, the problem arises when a piece with an unoriginal overlay or other restorations is sold without disclosing all (or any) details about the restorations. 

Especially this piece was in an auction with no disclosure of restoration:

 - which I think is close to fraud, because the oa was limited to this:

At least this time the Donnellys have disclosed that the Obama image isn't oa:

http://www.coollinesartwork.com/featured.asp?Piece=294775

Personally I got Pascoe to make an overlay for one of my oa covers. The overlay is not attached to the cover but is simply a loose overlay which in no way interacts with the oa - you can see it here, and notice I've disclosed that Pascoe made the overlay:

http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1343221

Edited April 13, 2017 by Rune

[koollectablz]

On 4/12/2017 at 3:51 PM, Ironmandrd said:

By the way, on the Doctor Who piece, how is is known for certain that Coollines bought it from HA (where it didn't have the borders)?  Did they post the piece right away after the HA auction?  Or did they post it on their site without the borders and then re-posted with the borders?  Is it possible that someone bought it from HA, had it mounted to a new board (or somehow otherwise added the borders), then traded or sold it to Coollines (who therefore may not have know about the non-original borders?)?  It fits within their MO to do something like this but just curious how certain people are that this is their doing.

Sorry, bit late coming back to this - the Who piece was originally posted on CAF by the owner who bought it direct from Gene Day he said directly that he himself cut the borders off as he was young and didn't know any better.  He then auctioned it via HA who listed it correctly as was with borders missing.  It sold for $700 or thereabouts - the brothers D then listed it on their site with the fraudulently added borders with a 'price on application'.  

I asked and was told $7000 or thereabouts...  

I then asked directly it it had anything added referring directly to the borders.  I was told it was complete and that nothing had been added or was missing inc the borders.

I then answered and sent a link to the original post on CAF and also the HA auction itself, both showing the piece with missing borders.  No reply was forthcoming.

Its just one of many absolutely concrete cases of them adding overlays/artwork/calling splash panels covers - you name it.

They are crooks - its not 'mistakes', they do it 100% to defraud and part people from their money.