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1st Wolverine art @ $140K with 22 days to go!!
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Started by drdonaldblake,

519 posts in this topic

the blob

the blob

Posted
Posted (edited)

We live in a world where 29 year old traders on Wall Street pull down $8 million bonuses and think they aren't making enough. The utility infielder on the Yankees makes $5 million a year. Dropping a few hundred thousand on a potential investment art piece doesn't mean anything.

 

Were we talking $5 million, sure, that's a big leap, but we're at about a measley $200K now. we'll see where it ends at at, but $200K is 3 years of junior high school at a fancy NYC private school plus camp for those years, it is a nothing number to the .02%. jeez, i have laid out nearly $200K for childcare over the last 6 years (a number that makes me sick by the way) and i make as much as my secretary did at my last job. at that price you don't need to be eminem, you could be the a junior partner/director at a relatively new private equity fund that had a good year.

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the blob

the blob

Posted
Posted
so you're saying Eminem will buy this piece ? or that he "could" or "might?

 

Yes.

 

In fact, he called me the other day and we chatted about it. He even wanted to call up Heritage and just outright offer $10 million, and see if the owner bit.

 

I told him to just let the chips fall where they may. Cuz me and the Marsh (that's what I call him) are tight like that.

 

 

Is that how you got his net worth info too? :baiting: Those net worth sites aren't worth the paper they're printed on, and they aren't printed on paper :insane:

 

I can't categorically speak to the US since I don't live or practice there but in canada unless someone's net worth gets discussed in a public trial or something there would be no way to ever reliably get the net worth of a public figure. You might be able to find out what certain assets in the person's name (such as real estate) are worth but other assets like stock portfolios or others assets held in a private corporation owned by the individual you'd never be able to find out about, to say absolutely nothing of the liabilities the person may or may not have, which is again to say nothing about the liabilities companies owned by the person may or may not have. Let alone for companies owned by companies owned by the individual. Or companies owned by the individual's family trust.

 

 

Dun & Bradstreet, at least they used to, would get paid a nice fee for trying to figure this out. This isn't finding the meaning of life or anything. Is it perfect? No. But the $115-160 million estimate is pretty broad too. Heck, wasn't Master P worth like $150 million at some point? Eminem has to be worth as much as Master P!

 

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delekkerste

delekkerste

Posted
Posted
Agree 10000%.

 

Rich people spend money on stuff all the time because they think its cool. Stallone shelled out $250K+ for a Frazetta, was he a big Frazetta fan growing up?

 

Maybe an advisor tells him it may also double as a good investment. This is just one type of art said rich person can stick up on the wall of their expensive home. If they never read the comics, they can think of it as the first appearance of a character made more famous by Hugh Jackman in the movies. It is iconic enough that most people under 45-50 will have some inkling of what it is (not that it's the first app, but who the character is)

 

In my opinion, you (and others) are greatly overestimating how people who aren't active in/familiar with the hobby would perceive this piece - if they even heard about it or had any comprehension of what they were looking at! Even many comic collectors do not know about OA or understand the market or its appeal. Before I stumbled across it by chance in 2002, I had no idea that there even was an OA market, that the art was B&W, and that they were the size that they were. Maybe there is more awareness now with the proliferation of hobby websites, social media, etc., but it is still not a generally well-known or well-understood product or market.

 

And, if you don't know that something exists, it's hard to get obsessed by it, which is why it is far more likely for an iconic comic book to have crossover appeal than comic art (though, even there, celebrity participation is invariably grossly overestimated - wishful thinking for validation I guess). People understand comic books. Most people have seen one, held one in their hands or even read one at some point. Collecting comic books is the gateway to collecting comic art. It is almost unheard of to find a serious collector of the latter that did not put in his or her dues reading, studying and collecting the former.

 

If you're not a hardcore comic collector who understands the Hulk #180-181 debate, who actually read the storyline and understands the importance of the early incarnation of the character and his evolution and appreciates the history, it's extremely unlikely that you're going to think this is the Wolverine piece to have, especially as it would hold no meaning for you. Why would any outsider feel the need to own this at $500K-$1mm as opposed to just buying a copy of Hulk #181? Or any comic with a cool Wolvie cover, for that matter? Or just popping a Blu-Ray of "The Wolverine" in the player and enjoying it? Plus, it's far from the most attractive Wolverine piece. Outsiders are not going to think this is the greatest thing since slabbed comics the way hobby insiders might. That very notion betrays an unrealistically comic-centric view of the world.

 

We all hear/read about cool stuff from other hobbies in the news, on websites, etc. How many times do you jump and say, "I gotta have that!" to something that is cool, but which you have no real knowledge of or pre-existing interest in? Sorry to break it to you folks, but that's how outsiders with their own set of interests feel when they read about our hobby. How many trophy pieces have sold to outsiders who read about the ASM #328 and McSpidey #1 cover sales in the news and said, "I gotta get me some of that?" Well, we don't know where the ASM #121 cover ended up, but all the other big covers have been accounted for. Empirical reality has consistently trumped fanboy wishful thinking in the OA realm to date. That part is not opinion - that's just cold, hard, observable, empirical fact.

 

You're right, there are rich people who blow stupid amounts of money all the time (though, as COI points out, fewer than many of you seem to think). But, as I pointed out before, it's rarely something about which they have no conception of and which has no firm price tag (even if it is egregious). Bling, cars, clothes, nights out, etc. - all things people understand. The Hulk #180 page? I'm sure there are rich people who would think it's cool (if they even heard about it). I'm sure these same people see something cool every day, though, and don't whip out their checkbook. That only happens when you're in the comic world bubble looking out.

 

I'm not saying that it's impossible for an Eminem to become a big OA collector. He collects comics and has a lot of money - both prerequisites for sure these days. But, (1) given that he hasn't dominated the comic collecting world, I'd be surprised if he suddenly decided to spend Vacuum-like sums on original art and (2) I can all-but-guarantee you that it will take him time to work up to that level (if he ever got there). I'm also quite sure he has major demands on his time, money and interests already. The reality is that it almost never happens that people just come in and drop record sums on things they know nothing about. You guys talk like these guys have advisors who can make up for their newbishness, but the reality is that people who are in the best position to give advice on the Hulk #180 page are the ones who will be going for the piece themselves. Or other savvy guys in the hobby. I'm still waiting for my call from Mr. Mathers. (shrug)

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
so you're saying Eminem will buy this piece ? or that he "could" or "might?

 

Yes.

 

In fact, he called me the other day and we chatted about it. He even wanted to call up Heritage and just outright offer $10 million, and see if the owner bit.

 

I told him to just let the chips fall where they may. Cuz me and the Marsh (that's what I call him) are tight like that.

 

 

Is that how you got his net worth info too? :baiting: Those net worth sites aren't worth the paper they're printed on, and they aren't printed on paper :insane:

 

I can't categorically speak to the US since I don't live or practice there but in canada unless someone's net worth gets discussed in a public trial or something there would be no way to ever reliably get the net worth of a public figure. You might be able to find out what certain assets in the person's name (such as real estate) are worth but other assets like stock portfolios or others assets held in a private corporation owned by the individual you'd never be able to find out about, to say absolutely nothing of the liabilities the person may or may not have, which is again to say nothing about the liabilities companies owned by the person may or may not have. Let alone for companies owned by companies owned by the individual. Or companies owned by the individual's family trust.

 

 

Dun & Bradstreet, at least they used to, would get paid a nice fee for trying to figure this out. This isn't finding the meaning of life or anything. Is it perfect? No. But the $115-160 million estimate is pretty broad too. Heck, wasn't Master P worth like $150 million at some point? Eminem has to be worth as much as Master P!

 

;)

 

Yeah, it's not unreasonable to conclude the guy has a lot of money, certainly enough to spend a small chunk like this without worrying about it, which was the point. A little bit off from the "blurry pic of her 4th toenail" analogy.

 

As someone who has been interested in and around OA since 1991 (my first WonderCon, in Oakland, where I saw all these beautiful portfolios, stuffed to the gills with these giant black and white originals), and who has been obtaining pieces since the 90's (albeit, on a limited budget...college is expensive!), it's always fascinating to me how these Johnny-come-latelies seem to know everything, while others who have been around it longer know nothing.

 

Not that, of course, length of time has anything to do with knowledge...but it certainly is interesting.

 

hm

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Bronty

Bronty

Posted
Posted
so you're saying Eminem will buy this piece ? or that he "could" or "might?

 

Yes.

 

In fact, he called me the other day and we chatted about it. He even wanted to call up Heritage and just outright offer $10 million, and see if the owner bit.

 

I told him to just let the chips fall where they may. Cuz me and the Marsh (that's what I call him) are tight like that.

 

 

Is that how you got his net worth info too? :baiting: Those net worth sites aren't worth the paper they're printed on, and they aren't printed on paper :insane:

 

I can't categorically speak to the US since I don't live or practice there but in canada unless someone's net worth gets discussed in a public trial or something there would be no way to ever reliably get the net worth of a public figure. You might be able to find out what certain assets in the person's name (such as real estate) are worth but other assets like stock portfolios or others assets held in a private corporation owned by the individual you'd never be able to find out about, to say absolutely nothing of the liabilities the person may or may not have, which is again to say nothing about the liabilities companies owned by the person may or may not have. Let alone for companies owned by companies owned by the individual. Or companies owned by the individual's family trust.

 

 

Dun & Bradstreet, at least they used to, would get paid a nice fee for trying to figure this out. This isn't finding the meaning of life or anything. Is it perfect? No. But the $115-160 million estimate is pretty broad too. Heck, wasn't Master P worth like $150 million at some point? Eminem has to be worth as much as Master P!

 

;)

 

Yeah, it's not unreasonable to conclude the guy has a lot of money, certainly enough to spend a small chunk like this without worrying about it, which was the point. A little bit off from the "blurry pic of her 4th toenail" analogy.

 

hm

 

Oh shut up already. :ohnoez: As I said its obvious he has a lot of money. And as I said it was a side note.

 

You can pay Dun & Bradstreet to wash yo mama's car and to figure out the number of molecules the moon is comprised of. Doesn't mean they are going to get it right and I guarantee you that the valuation will be qualified nine ways to sunday.

 

Have you ever read the terms used to qualify a professional opinion? Taken the literally the language basically says "hey we tried our best but any one of 13 million things could throw this way off."

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
so you're saying Eminem will buy this piece ? or that he "could" or "might?

 

Yes.

 

In fact, he called me the other day and we chatted about it. He even wanted to call up Heritage and just outright offer $10 million, and see if the owner bit.

 

I told him to just let the chips fall where they may. Cuz me and the Marsh (that's what I call him) are tight like that.

 

 

Is that how you got his net worth info too? :baiting: Those net worth sites aren't worth the paper they're printed on, and they aren't printed on paper :insane:

 

I can't categorically speak to the US since I don't live or practice there but in canada unless someone's net worth gets discussed in a public trial or something there would be no way to ever reliably get the net worth of a public figure. You might be able to find out what certain assets in the person's name (such as real estate) are worth but other assets like stock portfolios or others assets held in a private corporation owned by the individual you'd never be able to find out about, to say absolutely nothing of the liabilities the person may or may not have, which is again to say nothing about the liabilities companies owned by the person may or may not have. Let alone for companies owned by companies owned by the individual. Or companies owned by the individual's family trust.

 

 

Dun & Bradstreet, at least they used to, would get paid a nice fee for trying to figure this out. This isn't finding the meaning of life or anything. Is it perfect? No. But the $115-160 million estimate is pretty broad too. Heck, wasn't Master P worth like $150 million at some point? Eminem has to be worth as much as Master P!

 

;)

 

Yeah, it's not unreasonable to conclude the guy has a lot of money, certainly enough to spend a small chunk like this without worrying about it, which was the point. A little bit off from the "blurry pic of her 4th toenail" analogy.

 

hm

 

Oh shut up already. :ohnoez: As I said its obvious he has a lot of money. And as I said it was a side note.

 

You can pay Dun & Bradstreet to wash yo mama's car and to figure out the number of molecules the moon is comprised of. Doesn't mean they are going to get it right and I guarantee you that the valuation will be qualified nine ways to sunday.

 

:grin:

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the blob

the blob

Posted
Posted
so you're saying Eminem will buy this piece ? or that he "could" or "might?

 

Yes.

 

In fact, he called me the other day and we chatted about it. He even wanted to call up Heritage and just outright offer $10 million, and see if the owner bit.

 

I told him to just let the chips fall where they may. Cuz me and the Marsh (that's what I call him) are tight like that.

 

 

Is that how you got his net worth info too? :baiting: Those net worth sites aren't worth the paper they're printed on, and they aren't printed on paper :insane:

 

I can't categorically speak to the US since I don't live or practice there but in canada unless someone's net worth gets discussed in a public trial or something there would be no way to ever reliably get the net worth of a public figure. You might be able to find out what certain assets in the person's name (such as real estate) are worth but other assets like stock portfolios or others assets held in a private corporation owned by the individual you'd never be able to find out about, to say absolutely nothing of the liabilities the person may or may not have, which is again to say nothing about the liabilities companies owned by the person may or may not have. Let alone for companies owned by companies owned by the individual. Or companies owned by the individual's family trust.

 

 

Dun & Bradstreet, at least they used to, would get paid a nice fee for trying to figure this out. This isn't finding the meaning of life or anything. Is it perfect? No. But the $115-160 million estimate is pretty broad too. Heck, wasn't Master P worth like $150 million at some point? Eminem has to be worth as much as Master P!

 

;)

 

Yeah, it's not unreasonable to conclude the guy has a lot of money, certainly enough to spend a small chunk like this without worrying about it, which was the point. A little bit off from the "blurry pic of her 4th toenail" analogy.

 

hm

 

Oh shut up already. :ohnoez: As I said its obvious he has a lot of money. And as I said it was a side note.

 

You can pay Dun & Bradstreet to wash yo mama's car and to figure out the number of molecules the moon is comprised of. Doesn't mean they are going to get it right and I guarantee you that the valuation will be qualified nine ways to sunday.

 

Have you ever read the terms used to qualify a professional opinion? Taken the literally the language basically says "hey we tried our best but any one of 13 million things could throw this way off."

 

Of course, I have written the terms of those qualified professional opinions!

 

And tried to figure out the value of potential litigation targets (with valuation experts helping).

 

And, of course, it's harder to figure out if they don't want you to figure it out!

 

And the value of copyrights in songs and what not is very subjective. Eminem songs (and those he has written for others) may get no play in 10 years. They may be the equivalent of classic rock songs then as well and be producing healthy royalties.

 

Which is why we're talking about a likely very broad range.

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delekkerste

delekkerste

Posted
Posted
As someone who has been interested in and around OA since 1991 (my first WonderCon, in Oakland, where I saw all these beautiful portfolios, stuffed to the gills with these giant black and white originals), and who has been obtaining pieces since the 90's (albeit, on a limited budget...college is expensive!), it's always fascinating to me how these Johnny-come-latelies seem to know everything, while others who have been around it longer know nothing.

 

Not that, of course, length of time has anything to do with knowledge...but it certainly is interesting.

 

hm

 

Wow, are you trying to be dense or does it just come naturally to you? I tried taking up golf a long time ago - took lessons, practiced, played a few games before deciding it wasn't for me. Would anyone think that, just because I started sooner, I'm somehow better at golf than someone who started later but has been playing constantly and consistently all this time? :screwy:

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
As someone who has been interested in and around OA since 1991 (my first WonderCon, in Oakland, where I saw all these beautiful portfolios, stuffed to the gills with these giant black and white originals), and who has been obtaining pieces since the 90's (albeit, on a limited budget...college is expensive!), it's always fascinating to me how these Johnny-come-latelies seem to know everything, while others who have been around it longer know nothing.

 

Not that, of course, length of time has anything to do with knowledge...but it certainly is interesting.

 

hm

 

Wow, are you trying to be dense or does it just come naturally to you? I tried taking up golf a long time ago - took lessons, practiced, played a few games before deciding it wasn't for me. Would anyone think that, just because I started sooner, I'm somehow better at golf than someone who started later but has been playing constantly and consistently all this time? :screwy:

 

If you can't make your point without being insulting, why even waste time posting?

 

But thank you for retracting your "you weren't there, so you couldn't possibly know" argument.

 

(thumbs u

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
RMA, why haven't I gotten a well wishes card from you given that we're on the same side of a debate? (Although I'm disagreeing more politely, as usual. :-) ...

 

;)

 

It's appreciated. The real problem in these debates is that people can't control their emotions, and their egos are tied up in their positions. It's not enough to disagree, but the attitude has to be "you don't know anything, why don't you just shut up and let the grown-ups talk?"

 

Why anyone tolerates it, I don't know, but it's very common.

 

You can disagree with someone, and not speak to them as if they're a 5 year old child who's never been out of the house.

 

God knows, I've done enough of that to others myself.

 

:foryou:

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MrBedrock

MrBedrock

Posted
Posted
As someone who has been interested in and around OA since 1991 (my first WonderCon, in Oakland, where I saw all these beautiful portfolios, stuffed to the gills with these giant black and white originals), and who has been obtaining pieces since the 90's (albeit, on a limited budget...college is expensive!), it's always fascinating to me how these Johnny-come-latelies seem to know everything, while others who have been around it longer know nothing.

 

Not that, of course, length of time has anything to do with knowledge...but it certainly is interesting.

 

hm

 

Wow, are you trying to be dense or does it just come naturally to you? I tried taking up golf a long time ago - took lessons, practiced, played a few games before deciding it wasn't for me. Would anyone think that, just because I started sooner, I'm somehow better at golf than someone who started later but has been playing constantly and consistently all this time? :screwy:

Some inconsiderate boob could counter this statement by asking.....Who would think you are good, constant and consistent at knowing OA?

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