1st Wolverine art @ $140K with 22 days to go!! 0

[the blob]

As someone who has been interested in and around OA since 1991 (my first WonderCon, in Oakland, where I saw all these beautiful portfolios, stuffed to the gills with these giant black and white originals), and who has been obtaining pieces since the 90's (albeit, on a limited budget...college is expensive!), it's always fascinating to me how these Johnny-come-latelies seem to know everything, while others who have been around it longer know nothing.

 

Not that, of course, length of time has anything to do with knowledge...but it certainly is interesting.

 

 

Wow, are you trying to be dense or does it just come naturally to you? I tried taking up golf a long time ago - took lessons, practiced, played a few games before deciding it wasn't for me. Would anyone think that, just because I started sooner, I'm somehow better at golf than someone who started later but has been playing constantly and consistently all this time?

 

But let's remember that 40 something men who are hitting their stride $ wise (not an 18 year old who just sold the latest hot iphone app for $600 million...) did grow up in an era when boys read comics. most of my male friends in elementary school read comics and a big chunk in 7tth and 8th grade and i went to a school that has produced a huge number of successful media types, hedge fund managers, etc. just LinkedIn with a guy i ran track with who founded and runs a $3 billion hedge fund. not necessarily collectors per se, but enjoyed them. by high school most had dropped out, sure, some probably came back in the early 90s for a bit, so there is some consciousness of this stuff for guys of that age and if they have money dripping out of their pores, it isn't a big deal to get something neat (the guy with the hedge fund does not strike me as the type who would blow that on comic art, but would blow that much on, let's say, the original -script for the star trek pilot)

[RockMyAmadeus]

As someone who has been interested in and around OA since 1991 (my first WonderCon, in Oakland, where I saw all these beautiful portfolios, stuffed to the gills with these giant black and white originals), and who has been obtaining pieces since the 90's (albeit, on a limited budget...college is expensive!), it's always fascinating to me how these Johnny-come-latelies seem to know everything, while others who have been around it longer know nothing.

 

Not that, of course, length of time has anything to do with knowledge...but it certainly is interesting.

 

 

Wow, are you trying to be dense or does it just come naturally to you? I tried taking up golf a long time ago - took lessons, practiced, played a few games before deciding it wasn't for me. Would anyone think that, just because I started sooner, I'm somehow better at golf than someone who started later but has been playing constantly and consistently all this time?

Some inconsiderate boob could counter this statement by asking.....Who would think you are good, constant and consistent at knowing OA?

 

The real challenge is finding an inconsiderate boob to ask that question.

[MrBedrock]

As someone who has been interested in and around OA since 1991 (my first WonderCon, in Oakland, where I saw all these beautiful portfolios, stuffed to the gills with these giant black and white originals), and who has been obtaining pieces since the 90's (albeit, on a limited budget...college is expensive!), it's always fascinating to me how these Johnny-come-latelies seem to know everything, while others who have been around it longer know nothing.

 

Not that, of course, length of time has anything to do with knowledge...but it certainly is interesting.

 

 

Wow, are you trying to be dense or does it just come naturally to you? I tried taking up golf a long time ago - took lessons, practiced, played a few games before deciding it wasn't for me. Would anyone think that, just because I started sooner, I'm somehow better at golf than someone who started later but has been playing constantly and consistently all this time?

Some inconsiderate boob could counter this statement by asking.....Who would think you are good, constant and consistent at knowing OA?

 

The real challenge is finding an inconsiderate boob to ask that question.

Maybe the unknown rich dude could ask it after winning the page in the auction.

[Bronty]

so you're saying Eminem will buy this piece ? or that he "could" or "might?

 

Yes.

 

In fact, he called me the other day and we chatted about it. He even wanted to call up Heritage and just outright offer $10 million, and see if the owner bit.

 

I told him to just let the chips fall where they may. Cuz me and the Marsh (that's what I call him) are tight like that.

 

 

Is that how you got his net worth info too? Those net worth sites aren't worth the paper they're printed on, and they aren't printed on paper

 

I can't categorically speak to the US since I don't live or practice there but in canada unless someone's net worth gets discussed in a public trial or something there would be no way to ever reliably get the net worth of a public figure. You might be able to find out what certain assets in the person's name (such as real estate) are worth but other assets like stock portfolios or others assets held in a private corporation owned by the individual you'd never be able to find out about, to say absolutely nothing of the liabilities the person may or may not have, which is again to say nothing about the liabilities companies owned by the person may or may not have. Let alone for companies owned by companies owned by the individual. Or companies owned by the individual's family trust.

 

 

Dun & Bradstreet, at least they used to, would get paid a nice fee for trying to figure this out. This isn't finding the meaning of life or anything. Is it perfect? No. But the $115-160 million estimate is pretty broad too. Heck, wasn't Master P worth like $150 million at some point? Eminem has to be worth as much as Master P!

 

 

Yeah, it's not unreasonable to conclude the guy has a lot of money, certainly enough to spend a small chunk like this without worrying about it, which was the point. A little bit off from the "blurry pic of her 4th toenail" analogy.

 

 

Oh shut up already. As I said its obvious he has a lot of money. And as I said it was a side note.

 

You can pay Dun & Bradstreet to wash yo mama's car and to figure out the number of molecules the moon is comprised of. Doesn't mean they are going to get it right and I guarantee you that the valuation will be qualified nine ways to sunday.

 

Have you ever read the terms used to qualify a professional opinion? Taken the literally the language basically says "hey we tried our best but any one of 13 million things could throw this way off."

 

Of course, I have written the terms of those qualified professional opinions!

 

And tried to figure out the value of potential litigation targets (with valuation experts helping).

 

And, of course, it's harder to figure out if they don't want you to figure it out!

 

And the value of copyrights in songs and what not is very subjective. Eminem songs (and those he has written for others) may get no play in 10 years. They may be the equivalent of classic rock songs then as well and be producing healthy royalties.

 

Which is why we're talking about a likely very broad range.

 

(thumbs u

 

Especially as to the copyright values. Forgetting the difficulties in understand what private liabilities he might have, even his assets (normally the easy part) are difficult to value.

[RockMyAmadeus]

As someone who has been interested in and around OA since 1991 (my first WonderCon, in Oakland, where I saw all these beautiful portfolios, stuffed to the gills with these giant black and white originals), and who has been obtaining pieces since the 90's (albeit, on a limited budget...college is expensive!), it's always fascinating to me how these Johnny-come-latelies seem to know everything, while others who have been around it longer know nothing.

 

Not that, of course, length of time has anything to do with knowledge...but it certainly is interesting.

 

 

Wow, are you trying to be dense or does it just come naturally to you? I tried taking up golf a long time ago - took lessons, practiced, played a few games before deciding it wasn't for me. Would anyone think that, just because I started sooner, I'm somehow better at golf than someone who started later but has been playing constantly and consistently all this time?

Some inconsiderate boob could counter this statement by asking.....Who would think you are good, constant and consistent at knowing OA?

 

The real challenge is finding an inconsiderate boob to ask that question.

Maybe the unknown rich dude could ask it after winning the page in the auction.

 

 

Does he have to be rich to win it?

 

According to the estimates from the OA Illuminati, it wouldn't buy a shack here in Burbank.

 

 

[miraclemet]

I hope somewhere in this thread someone mused on how Herb Trimpe sure could use a cut of this....

 

These is a discussion (I think it might be a proposed bill in Congress or perhaps just the NY state senate, I forget) re: following the French model and imposing a small levy on art auction sales so that a % goes back to the artist (assuming it is not the artist doing the auctioning). While I feel uncomfortable with the whole notion, particularly if the artist made some nice coin on the original sale, in a situation like this it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

 

I don't know if the piece is already signed, but it would be a nice gesture if the new owner offered Trimpe a fat payout to finish it off with his sig as Trimpe is apparently a really nice guy, got tossed out with the trash by Marvel in his 50s and had to struggle for a while (maybe he still is struggling, though at least now he can collect social security and be on medicare)

 

 

Wow, they get a % EVERY time a piece is sold? That'd be a nice residual.

[the blob]

oddly enough, i believe what has been proposed in exempts galleries and just covers auctions. i am not sure why there should be a difference (the article i read implied that one of the NYC politicians pushing this has a lot of galleries in his district but none of the auction houses), although auctions are no doubt easier to follow than gallery sales, which often include private sales and what not. there might be dollar minimums too as it would be ridiculous to try to collect the levy on a $500 ebay auction.

 

i envision this simply pushing some of the big ticket sales away from auctions and into private sales to avoid the 2-5% levy.

 

 

[the blob]

seems unfair to have to pay the levy if you lost money on the sale but the proposed law would not differentiate

[bronze_rules]

seems unfair to have to pay the levy if you lost money on the sale but the proposed law would not differentiate

 

Frankly, I'm surprised comic artists ever even got their artwork back. Not saying they aren't deserving. But in places like Silicon Valley or Wall Street-- day 1-- you sign over ABSOLUTELY anything of value created while there- forever. If the company thinks you have something even remotely of value to anyone, that YOU created, guess what -- it ain't yours. People are sent to jail for taking (ahem stealing) work they did while employed.

[Comicopolis]

[mackenzie999]

Frankly, I'm surprised comic artists ever even got their artwork back. Not saying they aren't deserving. But in places like Silicon Valley or Wall Street-- day 1-- you sign over ABSOLUTELY anything of value created while there- forever. If the company thinks you have something even remotely of value to anyone, that YOU created, guess what -- it ain't yours. People are sent to jail for taking (ahem stealing) work they did while employed.

 

This.

Much as I love Kirby et al, I never understood why they felt they were owed their OA (unless it was agreed upon at the outset). They were paid to do their job, which was create artwork for their employers. It'd be a nice gesture if they were given the artwork, but in no way should they feel entitled. At least in my opinion, and I create art for a living.

[comicwiz]

Frankly, I'm surprised comic artists ever even got their artwork back. Not saying they aren't deserving. But in places like Silicon Valley or Wall Street-- day 1-- you sign over ABSOLUTELY anything of value created while there- forever. If the company thinks you have something even remotely of value to anyone, that YOU created, guess what -- it ain't yours. People are sent to jail for taking (ahem stealing) work they did while employed.

 

While I understand the point you are trying to get across, the "corporate" world example doesn't apply to situations where an artist should own the right to "original" works they either produced or had a hand in creating. Especially with the Silicon Valley example, 99.9% of the work is rearranged/reverse engineered or derives in whole or in part from an originating source, and situations where a developer/designer/coders boss drops something on their desk and says we need to build this - but it needs to look better, work better and be cheaper - is a lot more common a practice than you'd think. It's exactly because work performed at the office becomes the property rights of the employer that the saying "innovation isn't an idea problem" rings so true. Think also about the way this has stunted the motivation/inclination for artists to be a part of creating a new stable of characters for the big 2 in comics.

[the blob]

if getting back some of the art was part of how things were done back then, then that's the deal.

 

of course, it doesn't seem like anyone had any interest in this stuff in the early 60s except for stan lee who knew better. i don't buy the notion that there wasn't a market for this stuff by the late 60s though as I've heard tales from my friend who was doing shows then about how steranko stuff was triple digits and so on, so kirby or ditko stuff must have been worth something too. i wasn't there, so i can't say.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

Current Bid: $260,000

[comix4fun]

Current Bid: $260,000

 

 

311 wit da vig!

[comix4fun]

$657,200.00

[FlyingDonut]

I'm not up to date - is that a record for artwork?

[comix4fun]

I'm not up to date - is that a record for artwork?

 

 

For an interior page? Yes.

 

It basically matched what the McFarlane ASM 328 cover sold for a while back.

[bababooey]

$657,200.00

 

So in the debate as to whether this was a 300K or million dollar piece we pretty much got a split decision & some entertaining posts.

 

[Dr. Balls]

Frankly, I'm surprised comic artists ever even got their artwork back. Not saying they aren't deserving. But in places like Silicon Valley or Wall Street-- day 1-- you sign over ABSOLUTELY anything of value created while there- forever. If the company thinks you have something even remotely of value to anyone, that YOU created, guess what -- it ain't yours. People are sent to jail for taking (ahem stealing) work they did while employed.

 

While I understand the point you are trying to get across, the "corporate" world example doesn't apply to situations where an artist should own the right to "original" works they either produced or had a hand in creating...Think also about the way this has stunted the motivation/inclination for artists to be a part of creating a new stable of characters for the big 2 in comics.

 

+1

 

Just to add: Comic artists did more than create technical drawings, etc of products - they created the product. There's some grey area there. Working in the field I work in, it's all work-for-hire, but I am not creating images or graphics that will continue on in a life of their own. Comic artists who created characters should have been treated a little differently because their creations spawned other endeavors. A logo is just a logo no matter how many times you print it.

 

I'm not saying that sole ownership resides with the creator working for a publisher, but there are some considerations that need to be made when creating something of that nature.

 

A character is almost a living thing unto itself - and it's a very different type of creative work than a typical work-for-hire gig where you have certain parameters that are set by the client. The whole topic should have been treated differently from the start, but sometimes it takes one guy to be made an example of for things to change.