Follow up response from Steve Borock

[drbanner]

Since this thread seems to contain a fair amount of speculation, I wanted to try my hand. With apologies to Steve B and the good folks at CGC:

 

**DISCLAIMER** This is pure, unadulterated speculation. It is being pulled out of my and is not based on any facts whatsoever. Take it for what its worth (i.e., nothing).

 

What if it were found that Ewert had been a client of PCS and had a fair number of his books pressed by them in the past year? And in the process, his trim jobs got past not only the CGC restoration detector (now Paul Litch), but also Chris F during the evalutation and pressing process?

 

Would it be the PR nightmare of nightmares to try and explain how the super secret paper conservation company you set up exclusively for select clientele, to possibly enhance the grades of their submissions through pressing, and led by your former restoration expert, was in fact abused and taken advantage of by the now-pariah of the comic hobby? That you not only did the standard business of submissions with him, but in fact rolled out the red carpet and made him part of the "select few" who could benefit from PCS, only to realize too late he had been taking advantage of his elite status in ways you couldn't imagine?

 

Just idle speculation at 5:00 AM in the morning....

 

Hard is it may be to believe, but that's an old theory that's already been discussed (not sure if it was on this thread or one of the many others)!!

[Sal]

Are we to believe that Eichenbaum, a major corporate businessman, did not review the document before signing it?

Earth to Mark, hello?! Of course he might not have reviewed it before signing it. I've got documents with signatures from Fortune 500 CEOs and chairmen that they had no clue what they were signing. That's why they hire lots of managers and staff, to make sure that everything is right for them to sign.

 

Great. Its working real well for them.

You know what I mean. There simply aren't enough hours in the day for a senior exec at a huge company to read everything he's asked to sign. He should UNDERSTAND what he's being asked to sign, but shouldn't have to read it in detail. Of course, I don't put Eichenbaum in that echelon, but the fact is lots of people don't like to read the fine print.

 

I know Tim, but seriously look at the document in question. We are not talking about boring, standarized language that goes on and on that we all ignore in real estate documents, incorporation papers, etc. There is no fine print.

 

It was one single piece of paper with three names on it! And he literally had to look at the names to affix his signature.

 

But enough for now. The ball is in their court.

 

CGC Lawyer: Okay, Mr. Eichenbaum, here's your incorporation documents, all ready to go. Just sign here.

 

Eichenbaum: Hey, Steve Borock's name is on here.

 

CGC Lawyer: Well, we just reused the form from the last -

 

Eichenbaum: But he's not an officer of this new entity.

 

CGC Lawyer: It's really not that important, Mr.Eichenbaum. We could of course recreate the necessary documents without Mr. Borock's name on there if you wanted -

 

Eichenbaum: How long would that take?

 

CGC Lawyer: Not long. Day or so.

 

Eichenbaum: Hmm. It's not important, you say.

 

CGC Lawyer: Not at all. Look, we can always file for a name change later.

 

Eichenbaum: Fine.

 

Eichenbaum signs the paper.

 

 

not out of the realm of possibility, now, is it?

[greaterfool]

Having read through these thousands of posts, i wanna know - Who did the trimming???

[divad]

Are we to believe that Eichenbaum, a major corporate businessman, did not review the document before signing it?

Earth to Mark, hello?! Of course he might not have reviewed it before signing it. I've got documents with signatures from Fortune 500 CEOs and chairmen that they had no clue what they were signing. That's why they hire lots of managers and staff, to make sure that everything is right for them to sign.

 

One thing most of you are forgetting is that CGC is NOT a big company - what does it have ? 40 employees? 60? 80 tops? I don't think so. It's a tiny little company in frikkin' Sarasota FL which only appears to be the center of the Universe to you frikkin' crease conscious, comic geeks.

 

It's nowhere near Fortune 500,000 nevermind Fortune 500. With all due respect to Mr. Eichenbaum (and company) they are spit in the wind - he is NOT "a major corporate businessman. I think all of you need to take a step back and do a reality check.

 

The Certified Collectibles Umbrella thinks BIG, I'll give them that . . . and they're no mom and pop, but . . .

[toro]

Are we to believe that Eichenbaum, a major corporate businessman, did not review the document before signing it?

Earth to Mark, hello?! Of course he might not have reviewed it before signing it. I've got documents with signatures from Fortune 500 CEOs and chairmen that they had no clue what they were signing. That's why they hire lots of managers and staff, to make sure that everything is right for them to sign.

 

One thing most of you are forgetting is that CGC is NOT a big company - what does it have ? 40 employees? 60? 80 tops? I don't think so. It's a tiny little company in frikkin' Sarasota FL which only appears to be the center of the Universe to you frikkin' crease conscious, comic geeks.

 

It's nowhere near Fortune 500,000 nevermind Fortune 500. With all due respect to Mr. Eichenbaum (and company) they are spit in the wind - he is NOT "a major corporate businessman. I think all of you need to take a step back and do a reality check.

 

The Certified Collectibles Umbrella thinks BIG, I'll give them that . . . and they're no mom and pop, but . . .

After just being down at CGC, I don't know where they would put 80 people, they would have to sit on top of each other,,,probably why Newt's office is in the bathroom! But all of the companies under the CCG umbrella are housed together so when you go in you have to let the receptionist know that you are there for comics, or coins.

[Timulty]

My feeling on this matter is that they set Steve up on the documents, in case Chris didn't pan out. The Company gets formed, while Chris gets citizenship, then they open the doors. I imagine citizenship classes/proceedings take a while.

[shadroch]

Just a little more speculation;

Back when I was in business,my accountant had two rubber stamps made of my signature.One I kept,one he kept.

I'm not at all familar with the types of forms we are discussing ,but is it possible that Steve E. never signed these at all,and someone simply rubber-stamped his signature on them.

[tth2]

CGC Lawyer: Okay, Mr. Eichenbaum, here's your incorporation documents, all ready to go. Just sign here.

 

Eichenbaum: Hey, Steve Borock's name is on here.

 

CGC Lawyer: Well, we just reused the form from the last -

 

Eichenbaum: But he's not an officer of this new entity.

 

CGC Lawyer: It's really not that important, Mr.Eichenbaum. We could of course recreate the necessary documents without Mr. Borock's name on there if you wanted -

 

Eichenbaum: How long would that take?

 

CGC Lawyer: Not long. Day or so.

 

Eichenbaum: Hmm. It's not important, you say.

 

CGC Lawyer: Not at all. Look, we can always file for a name change later.

 

Eichenbaum: Fine.

 

Eichenbaum signs the paper.

 

 

not out of the realm of possibility, now, is it?

Based on my experience, it's more like this:

 

CGC Lawyer/Clerk: Okay, Mr. Eichenbaum, here's your incorporation documents, all ready to go. Just sign here (peeling back the pages to show the signature block).

 

Eichenbaum: (without even looking at it) Everything okay in it?

 

CGC Lawyer/Clerk: Sure, totally straightforward incorporation, just duplicating what we did for all the other LLCs.

 

Eichenbaum: Okay (signs)

[Aman619]

his signature varies on each document at Sunbiz.org. good try though.

[tth2]

One thing most of you are forgetting is that CGC is NOT a big company - what does it have ? 40 employees? 60? 80 tops? I don't think so. It's a tiny little company in frikkin' Sarasota FL which only appears to be the center of the Universe to you frikkin' crease conscious, comic geeks.

 

It's nowhere near Fortune 500,000 nevermind Fortune 500. With all due respect to Mr. Eichenbaum (and company) they are spit in the wind - he is NOT "a major corporate businessman. I think all of you need to take a step back and do a reality check.

 

The Certified Collectibles Umbrella thinks BIG, I'll give them that . . . and they're no mom and pop, but . . .

Look, when I was at a law firm, I did a lot of work for small start-ups, probably smaller than CGC or CCG. I've also worked at a start-up that initially wasn't much bigger than CGC.

 

Here's a fact: a lot of businessmen, particularly entrepeneurs (such as a guy who might own and run CCG), don't like to read documents, not even glancing at seemingly obvious things like who the directors are supposed to be. If they trust the guy who's sticking the paper in front of them, particularly if the paper is for something as mundane as incorporating a company, they just sign.

[Aman619]

Here again is ironically the loudest indication you all must ponder: 24 hours of us guessing and playing around with possibilities to explain this perhaps simple mistake. But NOT ONE WORD from CGC or Steve B. We know theyre reading this. Still no answer.

 

At best, they are totally tone deaf on PR.

At worst, --- well, you fill in your worst case.....

[nearmint]

Here again is ironically the loudest indication you all must ponder: 24 hours of us guessing and playing around with possibilities to explain this perhaps simple mistake. But NOT ONE WORD from CGC or Steve B. We know theyre reading this. Still no answer.

 

At best, they are totally tone deaf on PR.

At worst, --- well, you fill in your worst case.....

 

What do you mean? Steve said it was a mistake that he's trying to get corrected.

[comicwiz]

Here's a fact: a lot of businessmen, particularly entrepeneurs (such as a guy who might own and run CCG), don't like to read documents, not even glancing at seemingly obvious things like who the directors are supposed to be. If they trust the guy who's sticking the paper in front of them, particularly if the paper is for something as mundane as incorporating a company, they just sign.

 

I can be accused of doing this on a fairly regular basis. And its not so much that its a mundane thing, but if I'm engaged in high-payoff activity when the papers are put in front of me, I just can't justify finding the time read through a contract longer than 1 page. I just have to trust the person putting the documents in front of me -- and that includes giving me a brief summary of what it is I'm signing.

[nearmint]

Here's a fact: a lot of businessmen, particularly entrepeneurs (such as a guy who might own and run CCG), don't like to read documents, not even glancing at seemingly obvious things like who the directors are supposed to be. If they trust the guy who's sticking the paper in front of them, particularly if the paper is for something as mundane as incorporating a company, they just sign.

 

I can be accused of doing this on a fairly regular basis. And its not so much that its a mundane thing, but if I'm engaged in high-payoff activity when the papers are put in front of me, I just can't justify finding the time read through a contract longer than 1 page. I just have to trust the person putting the documents in front of me -- and that includes giving me a brief summary of what it is I'm signing.

 

Same with me, but delete the phrase "engaged in high-payoff activity" and insert "engaged in a really good donut".

[comicwiz]

Here's a fact: a lot of businessmen, particularly entrepeneurs (such as a guy who might own and run CCG), don't like to read documents, not even glancing at seemingly obvious things like who the directors are supposed to be. If they trust the guy who's sticking the paper in front of them, particularly if the paper is for something as mundane as incorporating a company, they just sign.

 

I can be accused of doing this on a fairly regular basis. And its not so much that its a mundane thing, but if I'm engaged in high-payoff activity when the papers are put in front of me, I just can't justify finding the time read through a contract longer than 1 page. I just have to trust the person putting the documents in front of me -- and that includes giving me a brief summary of what it is I'm signing.

 

Same with me, but delete the phrase "engaged in high-payoff activity" and insert "engaged in a really good donut".

 

[Aman619]

::edit craop - I think there was supposed to be a hypotenuse in that::

 

whats that about Uncle Tanoose??

[Ze-man]

OK so the wrong name can be typed on a legal form , certain people might sign off on a doc they might not have entirely read, and Steve says he is not part of the new Co...I assume he would not lie about that.

(Although I did love how Steve came on within mili-seconds to make that declaration!)

 

But for some stupid reason I cannot understand why/how Steve has made such an effort to declare he has NOTHING TO DO with an in-house, comic related business that could very well directly/indirectly affect HIS beloved company that he has a hand in EVERY aspect of.

If I was Steve E. I would want my head guy to be included in how it was all going to go down. And if I was Steve B. I would darn well want to be involved in every aspect.

Perhaps he was, and is included in everything except the legal formalities.

I dunno

 

No, no, no.. I am not suggesting conspiracy theories her...I have just grown weary of the typical hush hush, CGC has "No Comment" veil of secrecy over whatever topic might be up for discussion.

Unless we hit a sensitive nail, directly on the head we are left to sit and spin.

They can keep it ALL to themselves for all I care.(where is the "washing my hands" graemlin?)

 

 

At least after reading through the last 35 pages of this thread I gleened greater insight into how to open/read PDF files, special sauce/ gazelle recipies, how more people like coke vs pepsi (unless on a swimsuit), how legal documents are brought to life, and mean nothing until the correct revisions can be made, Newt can skimread general and make a post in under 10 seconds, and that the blazing one is still as insightful as ever(why has no one spent time tracking down CK like we do other perps.... honestly Bob.. that was a good one!)

 

Ze-

[Red Hook]

Welcome back. Man O' Ze!

[deathlok]

Wow, 8 pages worth of posts and twists and turns with every post. I love this thread.

[Sal]

Wow, 8 pages worth of posts and twists and turns with every post. I love this thread.

 

i was thinking the same thing...this thread would make a good episode of Masterpiece Theatre, except it's not really a "masterpiece"