FF 3

[awe4one]

You see during the who pressing debate, debacle there was a lot of talk about, "well it doesnt bother me so I don't care if its resto." But what I think this glosses over is the precedent it sets. See I think the mentality is akin to "Well we can press out certain defects and still get a Blue Label. I wonder what else we can do to improve a book and still ring in True Blue? ANd it seems we are poised to find out what that something else is.

 

Your point was brought up repeatedly during the pressing debate and summarily dismissed by the CGC apologists here...whose numbers seem to be shrinking by the day I might add...

 

Jim

[awe4one]

The bottom line is, if these incidents don't get examined, then the sucker in the end is the buyer. The loser is the end buyer. The guy out the money is the buyer. The person taken for a ride is the buyer.

 

Gets my vote for "Post of the Day"...

 

Jim

[awe4one]

The only thing that amazes me here is that this comes as to some people. A handful of people have been screaming about it for several years now, but they were just "conspiracy kooks." The same "conspiracy kooks" were laughed at less than 2 years ago when they claimed that CGC was doing on-site pressing for certain clients.

 

Som people, especially those with a vested interest, will never listen...

 

Jim

[blazingbob]

Given his grumpy [embarrassing lack of self control] poor manner on this thread, I doubt it.

 

My Grumpy poor manner?

 

What exactly about this thread would make me perky, happy and glad to respond? The 1st poster asking the question could have easily sent me that post in a PM or email. After speaking with me he could have posted the same thing stating FACTS instead of speculation. Ask me what I know versus making SHIIIIIT up. Anybody who has met me or talks to me knows I wear my emotions on my sleeve and deal straight up. And need I remind you that this is a BUSINESS, there are business relationships involved and in some case friendships. Or do many of you throw your friends/business associates to the wolves right away.

 

I've done what I can, I've had conversations with the parties involved and the book is on it's way back to CGC for review. If it's trimmed it goes into a purple holder. I will be getting a refund check and life will go on. As far as people cleaning up their acts or having the FBI raid their premises (Best one I've heard so far) I haven't initiated any legal action. As far as suing some of you for Libel I haven't retained FFB yet since he exhibits the type of lawyer I'd love to sic on some of you.

 

Have a great day

[joe_collector]

As far as suing some of you for Libel I haven't retained FFB yet since he exhibits the type of lawyer I'd love to sic on some of you.

 

Wake up Arch, it's STRIKE TIME!!!

[awe4one]

So just to be clear and have the facts out there...who submitted the possibly trimmed comic to CGC?

 

Jim

[Fan4Fan]

Or do many of you throw your friends/business associates to the wolves right away.

 

Friends?

 

 

[burntboy]

Do we know for certain that Ewert/Brulato submitted the books?

Back on the first page of this thread, when we were talking about the 8.5 FF 3 that kicked this whole thing off, Bob said:

 

I bought this book as a CGC 8.5 from Jason Ewert/Tom Brulato.

 

The FF 9 came from the same submission, which means it was submitted to CGC by whoever submitted the FF 3. So if Ewert/Brulato want to come on here and explain that it was not they who purchased the 3 and 9 from Heritage, and it was not they who trimmed and pressed the books (or arranged for the books to be trimmed and pressed), they're welcome to do so. But right now, there's certainly enough probable cause to bring them in for questioning.

 

I'd also like to know whether they did the trimming themselves, or used someone else. In a PM, someone suggested Matt Nelson to me, but I have to wonder if it's Chris Friesen's new service. Who else is in better position to slip new undetectable restoration methods by CGC than their former resto detection expert?

 

i was wondering when someone was going to go down this road

 

maybe over the next 3 pages this will get sorted out - maybe..............

[sfilosa]

My initial posts were done Monday morning US time, and as of early Tuesday morning US time, there has been no response from CGC or from any apologists (except sfilosa) or defenders of Brulato or Ewert.

 

Tim:

 

I'm not appoligizing for CGC.

 

I want the situation resolved, just like everyone else.

 

The difference is that in a two day period, I don't expect everything to be resolved, all parties to be either cleared or charged with this "crime" and justice to be delivered (the banishment from the comic book hobby forever).

 

 

Would I like CGC (Steve Borock) to respond this. Of course, but it's DEFINITELY in his BEST INTEREST to have all the FACTS in place before he says anything. And even then, he doesn't have to say anything. Just try to determine how this happened and prevent it from happening again (if possible).

 

For those who believe I would just pass the buck if I owned the book, I would do whatever I could to get my money back from the person who sold it to me, or CGC.

[Red Hook]

Bob,

 

Don't take this the wrong way, but you're talking about your friends and your business relationships. Not ours. We're your customers. I'm not trying to be harsh or snoty, just factual. You're a big boy, I assume you're more than capable of handling all the "". I hope you'll save a little outrage for whoever was responsible for passing the book on to you. Don't kill the messengers.

 

I don't think your rep has been damaged at all. I see you as being victimized here, just like the buyer who would have gotten the book in his hands would have been. You're argument is not with us......sure you can gripe about how it was handled. Yeah, I'm sure you would have liked to have had a chance to do damage control. But again, the guys here are not your friends. We are your customers, and it's our money that gets thrown in the sack in the end.

 

I know who my friend are. If one of them pulled a scam on me, and knew it, they would be ex-friends. My business relationships are in the area of illustration & graphic design.

 

I'm a collector of comics. I'm not in the business. I may be part of your business, but that's your responsiblity to safeguard. Not mine.

 

Brad

[clobberintime]

I forgot to say that I feel bad for Bob about how the FF 3 problems came to light the way they did. Bob is one of the best people to deal with in comics as far as I am concerned and it appears that he was the one that was taken advantage of in this situation - no one was harmed other than him. The book was on his site for a couple of weeks before this came up. I am sure that this has caused him alot of aggravation and may effect future sales with people asking where books came from and what he knows about them. So the real perps in this situation have thus far only managed to harm Bob by the money they took from him and the aggravation and potential damage to his business. I would enjoy being a fly on the wall when Bob confronts those who sold him the book if all the trimming and pressing allegations pan out though! If I were in Bob's shoes and bought or took on consignment a CGC graded blue label book from a prominent big money dealer, I would rely on the cgc grade and reputation of the seller as gospel. A lot of business activity is based on trust and reputation and that is what ended up injuring Bob.

[Aman619]

touche.

[sfilosa]

We know Doug is as we have heard from his surrogates - he must be too busy to make any comments himself. same with Ewert I guess. I really don't know what else these guys do besides sell comics now but it is evidently extremely physically taxing and time consuming.

 

I see that you have apologized to Bob, but I also think Doug deserves one too (yes, I'm sticking up for him). Brad called him, and he IMMEDIATELY took the book off of his site.

 

Just because he doesn't want to come on to these boards at this time and tell everyone where he got the book from, doesn't make him a bad guy. I know you do lots of business with him (as you do with Bob), and I believe both are stand up individuals.

[DKB]

Its too bad that there can't be some means to scan comic covers into a system and have a quick computer analysis done to see if it was scanned in previously and if possibly its been altered. Kinda like fingerprints. Possibly only do it with books pre 1970, or even pre 1965, or limit it to books with a value over $250 or $500 in 9.2.

 

Comics just don't rate the kind of money and time goes into developing that sort of thing.

[Red Hook]

I forgot to say that I feel bad for Bob about how the FF 3 problems came to light the way they did. Bob is one of the best people to deal with in comics as far as I am concerned and it appears that he was the one that was taken advantage of in this situation - no one was harmed other than him. The book was on his site for a couple of weeks before this came up. I am sure that this has caused him alot of aggravation and may effect future sales with people asking where books came from and what he knows about them. So the real perps in this situation have thus far only managed to harm Bob by the money they took from him and the aggravation and potential damage to his business. I would enjoy being a fly on the wall when Bob confronts those who sold him the book if all the trimming and pressing allegations pan out though! If I were in Bob's shoes and bought or took on consignment a CGC graded blue label book from a prominent big money dealer, I would rely on the cgc grade and reputation of the seller as gospel. A lot of business activity is based on trust and reputation and that is what ended up injuring Bob.

 

I concur completely. I would still buy unhesitatingly from Bob. My concerns are not with Bob.

[Red Hook]

Its too bad that there can't be some means to scan comic covers into a system and have a quick computer analysis done to see if it was scanned in previously and if possibly its been altered. Kinda like fingerprints. Possibly only do it with books pre 1970, or even pre 1965, or limit it to books with a value over $250 or $500 in 9.2.

 

Comics just don't rate the kind of money and time goes into developing that sort of thing.

 

I'm waiting for you guys to get started developing sites for the other pedigrees. It's friggin' lonely out here! www.darkdesign.com/gr

[burntboy]

touche.

 

this was an interesting way to spend a tuesday morning..................

 

i hope that we somehow at least learn the ultimate fate of CGC's re-examination of this book (FF #3).

 

1) have the staples been cleaned and were they "missed" the second time through??

 

2) is the lower edge of the book trimmed as the "evidence" suggests?? (and was, therefore, "missed" upon resub).

 

3) is this aforementioned trimming some new methodology that covers up the trimming to the point that it's far more difficult to detect??

 

4) this one is really just wishful thinking; how does a book get pressed/trimmed, resulting in a more presentable book, and then come back with a lower grade??

 

 

insofar as the perpetrators of the likely pressing and trimming of the book - we may never know the full story of the books trip from heritage to Bob...

we can only theorize.............

[Rip]

Given his grumpy [embarrassing lack of self control] poor manner on this thread, I doubt it.

 

My Grumpy poor manner?

 

What exactly about this thread would make me perky, happy and glad to respond? The 1st poster asking the question could have easily sent me that post in a PM or email. After speaking with me he could have posted the same thing stating FACTS instead of speculation. Ask me what I know versus making SHIIIIIT up. Anybody who has met me or talks to me knows I wear my emotions on my sleeve and deal straight up. And need I remind you that this is a BUSINESS, there are business relationships involved and in some case friendships. Or do many of you throw your friends/business associates to the wolves right away.

 

I've done what I can, I've had conversations with the parties involved and the book is on it's way back to CGC for review. If it's trimmed it goes into a purple holder. I will be getting a refund check and life will go on. As far as people cleaning up their acts or having the FBI raid their premises (Best one I've heard so far) I haven't initiated any legal action. As far as suing some of you for Libel I haven't retained FFB yet since he exhibits the type of lawyer I'd love to sic on some of you.

 

Have a great day

 

Feel free to cut and paste what the first poster made up.

 

1. So you got a refund from a bum book.

2. We know that your FF 3 wasn't the only book trimmed

3. and I see no one blamming you for trimming it.

 

What's so bad. Again if we didn't bring this out into the open we wouldn't have know about the FF 10. Right? You're also very respected and I certainly don't see blame coming in your direction, I know I would still gladly buy books from you. The Rosa books you bought are still moving fast.

[clobberintime]

I didn't much see anyone accusing Doug of anything. he rarely comes on here other than to hawk books as far as I have seen. And he really is a big player in the crack em out and resubmit them and make more money game that cgc has helped to create - and i really dislike that practice. For instance, there is a Hulk 1 on his site right now graded as 9.0 and the comments are that the book could easily be upped to a 9.2. Now the price is like $50k as if that is not enough but what is not said is how this book could be upped to a 9.2. Just by luck of the draw with the graders or what? All this resubmitting and book fixing is terrible for the hobby I think - it makes it all look like a joke at best and much worse if all these conspiracies and accusations ring true. It has evidently lead to a "lottery strike it rich" mentality with a lot of folks - easy big money by just playing a few games. All of this when it comes to light causes people to lose confidence in the value of their treasured collectibles. And this is not the first time a big time player has been caught with his hand in the cgc cookie jar. A few years ago one of the big time dealers from Salt Lake was involved with some cgc shenanigans. I didn't know exactly what at the time - I bought many of his books as he told me that he had some problems and was leaving the hobby. I later found out that he was playing some games with cgc and that they informed him not to do business with them any more. None of that played out in public like this though.

[Foolkiller]

19 pages of what makes me less enthusiastic than ever about the comic book hobby.