What is your Favorite Art,Drawing or story by Rob Liefeld? 1 1

[Dr. Balls]

but the absolute peak of McFarlane's skill was 315-328 - the absolute consensus among all his fans and collectors.

If I don't think the artist has ever submitted a decent page of art, what am I supposed to think of the opinions of his fans and collectors?

 

It's the same argument as with Liefeld.

 

Even if you don't like their art, whether you want to admit it or not, every artist peaks at some point. Every artist has a point where their work is the best it will be.

 

If you don't like McFarlane that's fine, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a peak of his work that shows off his skillset the best.

 

Here's an example of McFarlanes art that I think shows off what he brought to comics.

 

 

- You start with a cool image of Spidey crouching down dropping you into the page from the top, but with speed lines to give it some momentum and pull you in to the hand

- Then zoom in to a close-up of Spidey's hand reading a vital piece of information.

- That panel then overlaps with the one below, bringing you into the wreckage as it cascades from upper right to lower left, where we then see Spidey walking out the door in thought. Also note the placement of the word balloons being stacked vertically.

- Peter Parker returns home still scratching his head while MJ's workout mimics the rubble/word balloon layout above, BUT with a thick black border that helps it to offset with all of the black used in the top 2 panels. Also note the use of black in MJ's shadow, leotard, and the TV to help establish the angle..

 

You may not like his anatomy, you may not like his detail, but the man certainly knew how to layout, design, and tell a story with pictures.

 

That page - with it's lack of any perspective is completely innefectual at creating any sort of visual interest - is a horrible McFarlane example. But, according to you, simply stating: "I like it!" makes a piece of art successful - so it's not really worth arguing. I'll state it again - I cannot believe that someone can be so patently off-the-mark in understanding sequential art, which is why I think you just have to be trolling at this point.

[kav]

Technically broken records dont repeat but scratched ones do.

[RockMyAmadeus]

[MR SigS]

[RabidFerret]

That page - with it's lack of any perspective is completely innefectual at creating any sort of visual interest - is a horrible McFarlane example. But, according to you, simply stating: "I like it!" makes a piece of art successful - so it's not really worth arguing. I'll state it again - I cannot believe that someone can be so patently off-the-mark in understanding sequential art, which is why I think you just have to be trolling at this point.

 

And simply stating "I hate it" proves your point then?

 

I broke down a page panel by panel highlighting the aspects that make it a solid example, pulling the reader through the page, even touching on offsetting border thicknesses and overlapping panels, all of which successfully tells a story without needing to read a single word, and yet, like your friend RMA, you dismiss it with insults of "someone can be so patently off-the-mark in understanding sequential art".

 

Just mindboggling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

The fact is, without Rob Liefeld, the comic book industry wouldn't have been changed much at all. As Chuck said, it was MCFARLANE, not Liefeld, who came up with Image, so there goes that one.

 

What planet are you two insufficiently_thoughtful_persons living on? Go research some of the wildly_fanciful_statement you're trying to shovel. This is a complete fallacy.

 

Liefeld solicited a comic called Berserkers, a ripoff of X-Force, that was going to be released through Malibu at the same time he was doing XF. Marvel went berserk and threatened to sue and fire him.

 

Liefeld talked to McFarlane, explained what he was doing, and it snowballed from there. The entire thing started from Liefeld. McFarlane had already quit Marvel and was playing daddy, completely unsure what he was doing next.

 

And I can name 50 people who are more important to comics in the last 25 years than Rob Liefeld.

 

Here, let's start:

 

Alex Ross

Neil Gaiman

Grant Morrison

Jim Lee

Karen Berger

Ron Perelman (ugh)

Steve Geppi

Brian Michael Bendis

Robert Kirkman

Geoff Johns

 

etc...etc...etc...

 

Are you kidding me? You've mostly named a list of popular current writers and a hack artist who was popular for a few years for doing photo reference paintings. There are plenty of great artists and writers throughout history, but the vast majority of them could have vanished and things wouldn't have changed.

 

The only ones on this list that belong are the ones who truly changed the landscape of comics.

 

Lee and Berger arguments could be made for but even Berger is too small in the grand scheme, working at a single company. Lee at least created Wildstorm, ran multiple studios, then took over DC. The same argument could be made for Johns and Quesada. Perelman sadly belongs as well, and an argument could be made for Geppi.

 

Your perspective is utterly, utterly off.

 

Karen Berger is responsible for Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, and Grant Morrison (among others) working at DC. Karen Berger CREATED Vertigo.

 

 

But this only solidifies my position - Geppi, Perelman, and Liefeld are 3 that are villains in this list, who may not have changed comics for the better but certainly influenced it hugely.

 

Liefeld has had 1/100th the impact on the comics industry that Geppi and Perelman had.

 

Seriously....stop already. You don't know what you're talking about, you know *just enough* to sound like you do, and you keep digging yourself a deeper and deeper and deeper hole.

 

Because you keep making absurd arguments and making mess up!

 

You put your foot in your mouth and immediately follow it up with your own insults and claiming "everything you say is a strawman argument".

 

I've never run across such a broken record.

 

Now you've resorted to lying and repeating what I have already said to you.

 

[RabidFerret]

Now you've resorted to lying and repeating what I have already said to you.

 

 

Strawman argument.

[Dr. Balls]

That page - with it's lack of any perspective is completely innefectual at creating any sort of visual interest - is a horrible McFarlane example. But, according to you, simply stating: "I like it!" makes a piece of art successful - so it's not really worth arguing. I'll state it again - I cannot believe that someone can be so patently off-the-mark in understanding sequential art, which is why I think you just have to be trolling at this point.

 

And simply stating "I hate it" proves your point then?

 

I broke down a page panel by panel highlighting the aspects that make it a solid example, pulling the reader through the page, even touching on offsetting border thicknesses and overlapping panels, all of which successfully tells a story without needing to read a single word, and yet, like your friend RMA, you dismiss it with insults of "someone can be so patently off-the-mark in understanding sequential art".

 

Just mindboggling.

 

 

Yeah. You're still not getting it, and after 80 pages - you're never going to get it. There is nothing successful about that page, period. And you may think that breaking it down into justifiable explanations somehow makes it successful - well, by all means: let's add another 80 pages to this testament that you refuse to accept. The only mindboggling thing here is your devotion to being patently wrong in nearly all of your posts.

[Darkowl]

Thought this article was interesting...

 

http://comicsalliance.com/rob-liefeld-haters/

 

 

 

[Darkowl]

Even more interesting, Liefeld on Dennis Miller...

 

 

I didn't realize Rob was only 24 by the time he was hired by Marvel, created popular characters, and co-started Image. That's all incredibly impressive to me.

 

Funny. The more people hate on this guy, the more I think I like him.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I didn't realize Rob was only 24 by the time he was hired by Marvel, created popular characters, and co-started Image. That's all incredibly impressive to me.

 

What "popular characters" did Rob Liefeld create...?

 

Don't say Cable, because Louise Simonson was just as responsible, if not moreso, for him.

 

Don't say Deadpool, because Liefeld gave him the barest outline of a character, who wasn't very popular until Joe Kelly, Mark Waid, and others fleshed him out. After all...we don't call Kirby the "co-creator" of Spiderman, simply because he drew the cover to Fantasy #15.

 

Anyone else....?

[Prince Namor]

It's like arguing with a 13 year old who learned the history of comics from Wizard Magazine.

[dupont2005]

Wizard Magazine was the finest comic book publication to see print. News. reviews, entertainment, and a solid price guide by the industry leaders.

[Darkowl]

I didn't realize Rob was only 24 by the time he was hired by Marvel, created popular characters, and co-started Image. That's all incredibly impressive to me.

 

What "popular characters" did Rob Liefeld create...?

 

Don't say Cable, because Louise Simonson was just as responsible, if not moreso, for him.

 

Don't say Deadpool, because Liefeld gave him the barest outline of a character, who wasn't very popular until Joe Kelly, Mark Waid, and others fleshed him out. After all...we don't call Kirby the "co-creator" of Spiderman, simply because he drew the cover to Fantasy #15.

 

Anyone else....?

 

I actually was going to say Cable. Taken from wiki...

 

"Cable's identity was created by writer Louise Simonson and artist/co-writer Rob Liefeld". Liefeld played a hand in Cables creation.

 

Deadpool is tricky, because he was a "rip off" of Deathstroke. Later on, Deadpool became a more developed character, and gained his real persona, which others were responsible for. How everyone knows the character as Deadpool today, I cant say Liefeld is responsible for, but I can say that Deadpool wouldnt exist at all If it wasnt for Liefeld, and Deadpool wouldn't exist at all If it wasn't for Deathstroke. Deadpool is a character who has been essentially created by many, but of those included is Liefeld.

 

Those are probably the most popular characters he helped create, and I'm going to give Liefeld credit for his contribution to them. You've already agreed with me by saying this...

 

"Liefeld gave him (Deadpool) the barest outline of a character". If Liefeld only did give him that much, it's still a contribution.

 

Also, I believe there's a good chance of an X-Force movie being made. If that movie does well, I can only imagine how much popular his other characters will become.

 

Anyways, I'll go ahead and reword my original sentence If you think it's more accurate...

 

I didn't realize Rob was only 24 by the time he was hired by Marvel, co-created popular characters, and co-started Image. That's all incredibly impressive to me.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

It's like arguing with a 13 year old who learned the history of comics from Wizard Magazine.

 

Not just that, but an obstinate, obdurate 13 year old who thinks, like most 13 year olds, he knows everything....and with an adult's vocabulary and capacity for disguising horse manure as "plausible."

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Todd McFarlane is NOT an Artist (Capital "A"), and never was.

 

You're damn right he wasn't.

 

An ARTIST, regardless of his or her field, creates. It's what they DO. It's in their BLOOD. They get up every morning with an overwhelming drive to CREATE.

 

Hahahahahahahahhahahahahaha

 

I love that all of your arguments hinge almost entirely on your personal feelings about what a word means.

 

"Well to me 'artist' means this specific set of requirements and without them you can't possibly consider yourself an artist!" Hahahaha. You are a trip.

 

Do you know how many professionals never draw outside of work? Who draw only because it's the career they're in? But apparently they aren't artists huh?

 

And I love that after proclaiming that McFarlane is not an artist based on your bizarro world logic, you then actually say "an artist wakes up every morning with a desire to create" - but clearly that doesn't apply to creating a toy, a video game, or any art not used in a comic book??

 

Hahaha, really starting to think you're writing to us from he psyche ward in Bellevue...

 

When you cannot make your arguments without insulting those you are arguing with, you have lost.

 

As far as "psyche ward in Bellevue"...who is the one typing "Hahahahahaha" over and over....?

 

Isn't that what the Joker does....? Laughs maniacally?

 

One more thing...

 

As all the actual Artists on this board know (as opposed to "people who happen to make their living with or in the arts"), you have no concept of what it means to BE an Artist.

 

You do not understand, and so you mock.

 

If you do not eat, breathe, live your artform...every day. If it does not ooze our of your pores, and infuse your being with drive to create....then you are not an Artist. You may be what the professional world calls an "artist"...but you are NOT an Artist.

 

I am NOT a Musician, despite the fact that I hold a degree in it. It does not drive me, it does not wake me up in the middle of the night with new ideas (ok, sometimes it does), it does not force me to create, whether that creation is new, or just new to my listeners. If I was, I would never put down my instruments, be they pen, computer, or violin.

 

Mozart was. Beethoven was. Pucinni was. Bach was. Bernstein was. Williams is. Perlman is. Stern was.

 

These people were Artists, more particularly Composers and Musicians. It's what they did, every single day of their lives. It consumed them, their thoughts, their dreams, their ambitions. It's who they were.

 

So, NO, dear RabidFerret, you do NOT understand what it means to be an Artist. These are NOT my "personal feelings", though I certainly share them.

 

And to answer your question: if someone who is employed to draw doesn't do it outside of work...then NO, they are NOT Artists. They are journeymen. A genuine Artist draws constantly, compulsively, on napkins and counters and walls and any other thing they can doodle on. It is, again, what they do. If they put it away after 5PM and don't think about it again until 8AM the next morning, they may be good craftsmen, they may be excellent journeymen....but they are NOT ARTISTS.

 

And other Artists and those who understand Art know PRECISELY what I am talking about.

[kav]

I agree

The real artist draws constantly even with no pay

[MR SigS]

And to answer your question: if someone who is employed to draw doesn't do it outside of work...then NO, they are NOT Artists. They are journeymen. A genuine Artist draws constantly, compulsively, on napkins and counters and walls and any other thing they can doodle on. It is, again, what they do. If they put it away after 5PM and don't think about it again until 8AM the next morning, they may be good craftsmen, they may be excellent journeymen....but they are NOT ARTISTS.

 

And other Artists and those who understand Art know PRECISELY what I am talking about.

 

[NewWorldOrder]

 

Was this Jordan reaction from when someone asked him if LeBron James actually plays against good teams in the eastern conference playoffs ever?

Edited May 10, 2014 by Spiderman-on-Tilt

[kav]

 

Was this Jordan reaction from when someone asked him if LeBron James actually plays against good teams in the eastern conference playoffs ever?

If this is another 'joke' I don't get this one either....