what a joke these registry awards are

[Supa-Bad-Mofo]

Rarity in the CGC census means nothing by itself, though - I could point to a whole slew of copper books that have 1 or less copies in the census and it doesn't mean they deserve to be worth a ton of Registry points.

 

Unless you're talking about GA, if a book has few copies in the census it's far more often a sign that nobody's interested in collecting that particular book (eg. it's not worth it to get it slabbed) than an indication that particular book is rare & desirable.

 

In your example above, I see no reason why the Sgt. Fury should have a significant points premium over the WD - 33 years old is nothing for a comic book.

 

I see your point and agree the census isn't perfect. But here's a challenge...find me 560 copies of Sgt. Fury 167 in 9.8, I would bet they don't exist. If they did, I would be suprised. Walking Dead 100, I know I can get at least 560 copies. I think you can at least see my point there.

[newshane]

Rarity in the CGC census means nothing by itself, though - I could point to a whole slew of copper books that have 1 or less copies in the census and it doesn't mean they deserve to be worth a ton of Registry points.

 

Unless you're talking about GA, if a book has few copies in the census it's far more often a sign that nobody's interested in collecting that particular book (eg. it's not worth it to get it slabbed) than an indication that particular book is rare & desirable.

 

In your example above, I see no reason why the Sgt. Fury should have a significant points premium over the WD - 33 years old is nothing for a comic book.

 

I see your point and agree the census isn't perfect. But here's a challenge...find me 560 copies of Sgt. Fury 167 in 9.8, I would bet they don't exist. If they did, I would be suprised. Walking Dead 100, I know I can get at least 560 copies. I think you can at least see my point there.

 

You're forgetting demand. No matter how much you love Sgt. Fury, more collectors are scrambling for the Walking Dead books. All it takes is a visit to the sales forum to see it.

 

If you think a score should be adjusted, present your case in the appropriate thread and let the CGC decide. If you disagree with a score, there is an appropriate venue to express your view. Complaining alone probably won't get you much sympathy.

[N/A]

Funny thing is that you ALL argued for pasty points upon Modern, Bronze and Copper books.

 

If you complained about little point differences, why not try to buy Golden Age books that will shoot the stars easily. That will lessen your bickering arguments and fighting over little points against each others.

 

Getting the Golden Age books will be your big gain in your Registry!

 

Not me!! Arguing silver points!!! It irks me when my 35 year old silver age book in 9.6 is only worth 40 or 50 more points than something bought off the shelf 3 months ago. That doesn't make sense. IMHO monetary value should play a significant role (maybe 50%) in reg. point assignment....but rarity and age should also fit in there somewhere. For example, a modern , silver and a golden book sell for $300 in the same grade (let's say 9.6). There are 400 GCG 9.6 copies of the modern on the census, 40 copies of the silver and 3 copies of the gold. Hypothetically the modern should receive the least points and the gold the most.

 

To put it in perspective...I have a CGC 9.8 Walking Dead 100 Chromium Ed. printed 7/2012 and I have a CGC 9.8 Sgt. Fury 167 printed 12/1981. Granted, we aren't exactly comparing apples to apples...but give me some leeway here. The Fury issue is a low print run book and the last issue of the Fury run. It is also a reprint of Sgt. Fury #1. (We won't get into the inflated value of the Walking Dead #1 reprints...that is for another thread... (thumbs u ) Walking Dead 100 is obviously the100th issue, the 1st appearance of Negan and Lucille and the death of Glen. Both are important issues, but not epic or key issues. The Walking Dead book has a value of about $75 to $100 or so and the Fury book around $100-150...maybe more in the right environment. The Fury book is 33 years old with only 4 on the census one in 9.8, one in 9.6, one in 9.4 and one in 4.5. The one in question is the highest graded copy. The Chromium Ed. census shows 4 copies in 9.9, 560 copies in 9.8, 51 copies in 9.6, 5 in 9.4 and 1 in 8.0 for a total of 621 copies. If you add qualified and SS copies, there are 856 graded copies. If you add all of the variant and regular print copies there are 5,461 graded copies. Then we will include second and third printings for a total of 5,575 graded copies of the same book with different covers. (Why moderns are worth a dime more than cover price, I will never know...but that is also for another thread! )

 

The Walking Dead book is worth 48 registry points with 560 copies in the same grade. Now, my Fury book is worth a whole 80 registry points even though there is only 1 copy in grade (and 4 total), it's worth almost twice as much, it's 33 years old and still a 9.8.

 

It's only worth 33 more reg. points? That make's no sense...

 

 

 

If we only use your criteria then it would make no sense, you're right. Thankfully we do not use your criteria. To go by value would have a constantly changing registry landscape. Are you really suggesting that a long time collector 1st in a registry event is suddenly 4th because some randomn book got hot? The registry maintenance would never end.

 

Either you have difficulty reading or you just can't comprehend english. What I'm suggesting is that collectors of modern books would instantly lose points in their sets because their value in the registry is ONLY driven by monetary value which is artifically reaching unrealistic levels by being "hot". There are really very few rare modern books. And who's we? Do you represent CGC?

 

Additionally, why do you collect books? Do you pay all that cash on graded and signed books because they're pretty? Or is it because they're pretty AND worth some cash...some even say an investment. So yes, ideally the registry would revolve around value in some way... likely by the monetary value (what the book sells for) placed on them by collectors who want them (which can also be used as gauge for long term desirability and/or how "hot" book is) . The problem is that the registry, while a fun and interesting addition to collecting, is somewhat old school and cumbersome. It seems to take a lot of manpower and tons of time to manage it. With current technology, it should be much easier to maintain. We shouldn't need a "These scores need fixing" thread...the registry should use an algorithm and update those values based on GPA sales and whatever other recordable data (maybe census data) is available. Aren't the scores somewhat arbitrary even now? How could that be worse.

 

I'm afraid I don't understand your in depth and unbiased opinion on the way things should work.

[N/A]

Rarity in the CGC census means nothing by itself, though - I could point to a whole slew of copper books that have 1 or less copies in the census and it doesn't mean they deserve to be worth a ton of Registry points.

 

Unless you're talking about GA, if a book has few copies in the census it's far more often a sign that nobody's interested in collecting that particular book (eg. it's not worth it to get it slabbed) than an indication that particular book is rare & desirable.

 

In your example above, I see no reason why the Sgt. Fury should have a significant points premium over the WD - 33 years old is nothing for a comic book.

 

I see your point and agree the census isn't perfect. But here's a challenge...find me 560 copies of Sgt. Fury 167 in 9.8, I would bet they don't exist. If they did, I would be suprised. Walking Dead 100, I know I can get at least 560 copies. I think you can at least see my point there.

 

Yeah, "we" get your point.

[1950's war comics]

I agree with your Sgt Fury vs Walking Dead debate, and you have a real nice Fury collection !!

[1950's war comics]

CGC's business is driven by the encapsulation of moderns ,a huge money maker, I don't understand slabbing moderns but hey.. to each his own and we don't want CGC going out of business or lowering the standards do we? so they can skew the point system heavily towards moderns all they want !!

[Supa-Bad-Mofo]

Rarity in the CGC census means nothing by itself, though - I could point to a whole slew of copper books that have 1 or less copies in the census and it doesn't mean they deserve to be worth a ton of Registry points.

 

Unless you're talking about GA, if a book has few copies in the census it's far more often a sign that nobody's interested in collecting that particular book (eg. it's not worth it to get it slabbed) than an indication that particular book is rare & desirable.

 

In your example above, I see no reason why the Sgt. Fury should have a significant points premium over the WD - 33 years old is nothing for a comic book.

 

I see your point and agree the census isn't perfect. But here's a challenge...find me 560 copies of Sgt. Fury 167 in 9.8, I would bet they don't exist. If they did, I would be suprised. Walking Dead 100, I know I can get at least 560 copies. I think you can at least see my point there.

 

You're forgetting demand. No matter how much you love Sgt. Fury, more collectors are scrambling for the Walking Dead books. All it takes is a visit to the sales forum to see it.

 

If you think a score should be adjusted, present your case in the appropriate thread and let the CGC decide. If you disagree with a score, there is an appropriate venue to express your view. Complaining alone probably won't get you much sympathy.

 

It's not a complaint. I'm simply expressing my viewpoint. I'm not trying start a war either. Again, I'm just explaining what I view as faults in the system. I totally agree with the aspect of demand and it's affect on "value". Take GOTG for example...6 months ago the books were borderline drek...now they are selling for thousands. I get it, Fury will never be in demand. In ten years, will WD be in demand, when the show is long gone and no one cares. Does it have staying power like JIM, AF, Action and other silver and gold runs? I personally have a hard time believing it will. In ten years, those 560 graded copies may just be the new drek...except they are encapsulated. But, again, I believe FMV, not speculative value, is a reliable way to HELP to gauge points in the reg...it's definitely not the only answer.

[N/A]

If we, as a group, come up with a fair registry point system then I am confident we could get CGC To implement it. Keep in mind that low maintenance would be desirable. What tool relates FMV while eliminating speculation? I said that FMV is not a good basis for registry points because of the market fluctuation and high maintenance. This need to be eliminated to use FMV as the base.

[troydivision1]

What if each year points were adjusted in accordance with the 12 month GPA average?

Up or down...

If a CGC copy of the book doesn't sell within the year the value remains the same as the year previous.

 

The time period between the registry's due date and award announcement date would be when point values were adjusted. There would be a one month hold on entering new books until the registry reset.

[Supa-Bad-Mofo]

What if each year points were adjusted in accordance with the 12 month GPA average?

Up or down...

If a CGC copy of the book doesn't sell within the year the value remains the same as the year previous.

 

The time period between the registry's due date and award announcement date would be when point values were adjusted. There would be a one month hold on entering new books until the registry reset.

 

I think you are really close to what should be done...

 

GPA is a true representation of what is going on within the market. It's a reliable indicator of who wants what and how much they're willing to pay to get it. That could be associated with demand and obviously value.

 

Rarity/scarcity is the next aspect I believe needs to be considered. That may be represented in GPA values, but definitely not always. With an Action 1, scarcity is obviously reflected in value (there are only 62 graded copies). But, with Walking Dead 1, rarity is likely not reflected in GPA as there are 1964 graded copies. The same goes for Amazing Fantasy 15... there are 2178 graded copies, so rarity may not play a huge part in value. Both of the latter are great examples of how demand presses value higher and rarity is not really considered. We could base rarity on the census, but the census is only as good as it's data...and we all know the data is mediocre at best. You can not assume that it is accurate and we know it is not. Further, we know that just because there is one Thundercats 9.9 on the census...that doesn't mean it's rare...it's a Thundercats book. So, we can't rely on that. Maybe print run counts could be used and plugged into a formula that determines rarity by calculating how many books could or should be around after how ever many years have passed. Not sure how or if it would work, just ideas.

 

I, for one, feel that the registry should also reward people that possess unique books. Pedigrees, Double/Triple Covers and other bindery anomalies and other "special" qualities should receive a point premium (10%) and visible designation within the registry (ie. says "Mass. Copy" or "Double Cover" on the line with the other info).

 

At any rate, it would have to be better than the arbitrary points that are currently assigned.

[revat]

What if each year points were adjusted in accordance with the 12 month GPA average?

Up or down...

If a CGC copy of the book doesn't sell within the year the value remains the same as the year previous.

 

The time period between the registry's due date and award announcement date would be when point values were adjusted. There would be a one month hold on entering new books until the registry reset.

 

I think you are really close to what should be done...

 

GPA is a true representation of what is going on within the market. It's a reliable indicator of who wants what and how much they're willing to pay to get it. That could be associated with demand and obviously value.

 

Rarity/scarcity is the next aspect I believe needs to be considered. That may be represented in GPA values, but definitely not always. With an Action 1, scarcity is obviously reflected in value (there are only 62 graded copies). But, with Walking Dead 1, rarity is likely not reflected in GPA as there are 1964 graded copies. The same goes for Amazing Fantasy 15... there are 2178 graded copies, so rarity may not play a huge part in value. Both of the latter are great examples of how demand presses value higher and rarity is not really considered. We could base rarity on the census, but the census is only as good as it's data...and we all know the data is mediocre at best. You can not assume that it is accurate and we know it is not. Further, we know that just because there is one Thundercats 9.9 on the census...that doesn't mean it's rare...it's a Thundercats book. So, we can't rely on that. Maybe print run counts could be used and plugged into a formula that determines rarity by calculating how many books could or should be around after how ever many years have passed. Not sure how or if it would work, just ideas.

 

I, for one, feel that the registry should also reward people that possess unique books. Pedigrees, Double/Triple Covers and other bindery anomalies and other "special" qualities should receive a point premium (10%) and visible designation within the registry (ie. says "Mass. Copy" or "Double Cover" on the line with the other info).

 

At any rate, it would have to be better than the arbitrary points that are currently assigned.

 

yah I'm pretty sure if there's only 1 copy of a 9.9 thundercats comic....its rare. Now the reasons for the rarity and the desirability of the comic might in question, but I think that underlies how hard it is to have an objective algorithim to do all of the very very complicated math you guys are talking about.

 

Basically you guys are talking about a program that links up directly with GPA at least once every year AND access the data for EVERY SINGLE COMIC registered in all the grades AND THEN somehow evaluates the scarcity AND the desirability in an objective way. And then some people want extra points for age and pedigrees and signatures and page quality and double covers, (knowing that double covers and pedigress can't really be accounted for in GPA). You would literally need a PHD mathematician/software engineer working full to write this program and keep it updated, and I guarantee you people would still have complaints.

 

Not that people shouldn't make suggestions, of course there are very reasonable and tangible ways to improve, and larger, harder improvements to strive for, but its pretty freakin tough I think.

[N/A]

It's complicated only because people choose to attempt to include more information than necessary in the point system.

[Supa-Bad-Mofo]

What if each year points were adjusted in accordance with the 12 month GPA average?

Up or down...

If a CGC copy of the book doesn't sell within the year the value remains the same as the year previous.

 

The time period between the registry's due date and award announcement date would be when point values were adjusted. There would be a one month hold on entering new books until the registry reset.

 

I think you are really close to what should be done...

 

GPA is a true representation of what is going on within the market. It's a reliable indicator of who wants what and how much they're willing to pay to get it. That could be associated with demand and obviously value.

 

Rarity/scarcity is the next aspect I believe needs to be considered. That may be represented in GPA values, but definitely not always. With an Action 1, scarcity is obviously reflected in value (there are only 62 graded copies). But, with Walking Dead 1, rarity is likely not reflected in GPA as there are 1964 graded copies. The same goes for Amazing Fantasy 15... there are 2178 graded copies, so rarity may not play a huge part in value. Both of the latter are great examples of how demand presses value higher and rarity is not really considered. We could base rarity on the census, but the census is only as good as it's data...and we all know the data is mediocre at best. You can not assume that it is accurate and we know it is not. Further, we know that just because there is one Thundercats 9.9 on the census...that doesn't mean it's rare...it's a Thundercats book. So, we can't rely on that. Maybe print run counts could be used and plugged into a formula that determines rarity by calculating how many books could or should be around after how ever many years have passed. Not sure how or if it would work, just ideas.

 

I, for one, feel that the registry should also reward people that possess unique books. Pedigrees, Double/Triple Covers and other bindery anomalies and other "special" qualities should receive a point premium (10%) and visible designation within the registry (ie. says "Mass. Copy" or "Double Cover" on the line with the other info).

 

At any rate, it would have to be better than the arbitrary points that are currently assigned.

 

yah I'm pretty sure if there's only 1 copy of a 9.9 thundercats comic....its rare. Now the reasons for the rarity and the desirability of the comic might in question, but I think that underlies how hard it is to have an objective algorithim to do all of the very very complicated math you guys are talking about.

 

Basically you guys are talking about a program that links up directly with GPA at least once every year AND access the data for EVERY SINGLE COMIC registered in all the grades AND THEN somehow evaluates the scarcity AND the desirability in an objective way. And then some people want extra points for age and pedigrees and signatures and page quality and double covers, (knowing that double covers and pedigress can't really be accounted for in GPA). You would literally need a PHD mathematician/software engineer working full to write this program and keep it updated, and I guarantee you people would still have complaints.

 

Not that people shouldn't make suggestions, of course there are very reasonable and tangible ways to improve, and larger, harder improvements to strive for, but its pretty freakin tough I think.

 

You're right. It wouldn't be easy...at design level. But, once it was up and running, the system would maintain itself. Of course, new books and books without GPA history would need to be manually input until the system could update the data. Right now the registry seems to be a monster with very few automatic functions. Data management must be a nightmare! The CGC angels that manage it seem to be overwhelmed with new requests, point updates, errors and a myriad of other administrative challenges. That is the inherent problem. Here's an example. The Sgt. Fury set was built quite a long while ago. The $.30 and $.35 cent variants were added only a few months ago after several requests. When they were added, they were assigned a tiny premium based on the point value on neighboring books. So we ended up with a $400 variant (which are desireable as well) that was worth roughly 100 registry points in 9.8. That is how out of date the point values are for that set. They should be some of the most valuable books in the set. In contrast, the Walking Dead set was built much more recently and the assigned points reflect that. Updating every set manually to keep up with demand and value is simply too big a task to complete in a timely and fair handed way. (Sorry I focus on Sgt. Fury so much, but it is basically what I collect for now.)

[Supa-Bad-Mofo]

It's complicated only because people choose to attempt to include more information than necessary in the point system.

 

I agree that I am complicating it. But, I'm just suggesting alternatives to more fairly assign points.

 

[N/A]

It's complicated only because people choose to attempt to include more information than necessary in the point system.

 

I agree that I am complicating it. But, I'm just suggesting alternatives to more fairly assign points.

 

Most of us tend to complicate it initially driven mostly by the titles we are passionate about. This is what has led to the large discrepancies we see today. I guess the best approach is back to the drawing board. What should a registry point represent? Some say scarcity, others value and most seem to want some hybrid that "accurately" reflects a comics "worth" to the comic world as a whole.

 

Just make it simple so that collectors collect what they are passionate about without worrying about the points. Life became very simple for me when I chose to make it simple. Of course my post count appreciates the never ending search for the perfect registry score.

[Bomber-Bob]

When I initially started using the registry I treated it like a competition. I would get annoyed when someone passed me, No longer. I still use the registry, it's a great resource but nothing more. I agree that the point values are as outdated as Overstreet but I don't care anymore and I feel good !

Use myslabbedcomics.com for a much better experience.

[N/A]

Looking to make the switch later this year and just keep my 3 completed sets in the registry. Good advice.

[NewEnglandGothic]

 

July 25th is coming...

 

[N/A]

Yes. Yes it is.

 

Which means I have less than a year to update descriptions and pics. My Y set is finally finished.

[kaholo1256]

I don't understand this, he has everything obscured and he wins the overall achievement award ? I thought this was changed = you don't win awards for obscured sets ?

 

Achievement in Comics Collecting - wallstreetrebel

The winner for CGC's 2013 Overall Achievement Award in Comic Book Collecting is wallstreetrebel! A Silver Age collector, loving both Marvel and D.C. Comics, wallstreetrebel ranks 2nd in overall registry points. Eight of his sets are ranked number one and nine are ranked number two. Highlights of his collection are Daredevil #1 in 9.4, Showcase #4 in 8.0, X-Men #1 in 8.5 and a Flash 105 in 9.2. Perhaps the coolest thing is wallstreetrebel's bio where he revels that he is collecting with his son and that these books are theirs. Here's to the next generation! books are theirs. Please check out wallstreetrebel's sets homepage.

 

It was probably unobscured for all of a day to enter into the awards and changed back soon after. Everyone finds a loop hole.