Captain America Comics #1 Club 14 14

[Jaydogrules]

The fact that it has a history component that AC1, Tec27... or for that matter AF15 and BB28 do not have... could be a strenght, but it could definitely also be a weakness.

 

Because whereas the others are timeless... their stories and legends exist like timeless fairytales..while CA1 is tied to a particular time in history. What happens when WWII is a distant memory like perhaps "Battle at the River Jhelum"?? Will CA1 loose some relevance because it is not as timeless as the other big ones?

 

Many in this thread have a CA1, so I'm not counting on people saying "yes, it will loose relevance".. hhehe... but just consider it..

 

Captain America's battles against the Nazis in Cap #1 are not much more era-specific than Superman's battles against Great Depression-related struggles in Action #1.

 

Simply not fighting villains tied to a specific year is not what makes characters or stories "timeless", and by the same token, fighting villains or wars that actually took place during specific years does not disqualify a book from being timeless either.

 

Unlike Action #1, Tec #27 and AF #15, which included only one hero-story a piece, Cap #1 features four hero stories—including the hero's origin (absent from Tec #27) and the 1st app. of his arch-nemesis (absent from Action #1, Tec #27 and AF #15).

 

I am also with Wayne-Tec on this one. As a guy in his 30's if the opportunity arises, I would select owning a Cap 1 over a Superman 1, Batman 1 or a Marvel 1. IN addition to the reasons that he states, there is also the added desirability of owning the first appearance of Captain America over an issue '1' of a character that had already been out for a bit.

 

I like the way Disney has handled cap's "dated-ness" in a tongue in cheek, self referential manner in the movies. It makes the character more fun. Though I do believe the prices on this book, particularly in the lower grades, have gotten a little ahead of themselves. I also find cap 1 to be far more desirable than a batman 1 and especially a superman 1, but not a marvel comics 1. That and detective comics 1 are super huge for entirely different and obvious reasons. And the recent spiderman movie notwithstanding, I don't think cap will ever surpass the global popularity of spiderman. With or without movies, spiderman will most likely always be marvel's top dog. Whereas cap's recent Renaissance in relevance is almost entirely due to the movies.

 

-J.

 

[Wayne-Tec]

IN addition to the reasons that he states, there is also the added desirability of owning the first appearance of Captain America over an issue '1' of a character that had already been out for a bit.

 

None of the other big-time GA books have the combination Cap #1 has:

 

*No.1 issue of a series devoted to that specific superhero.

*First appearance of a classic superhero.

*Origin of a classic superhero.

*First appearance of that superhero's arch nemesis (Red Skull).

*Classic cover.

*Impressive cover artistically/visually.

 

Action #1 -- an anthology series, one hero story, classic but artistically simple cover.

Tec #27 -- an anthology series, one hero story, no origin whatsoever.

Superman #1 -- no 1st app., mostly reprinted material, no notable villains.

Batman #1 -- not the 1st app., of the title character.

Marvel #1 -- No top-tier characters, no noteworthy villains.

 

In those respects, no other GA book is in Cap #1's league. And the combination of factors listed above are, to me, much more than "Oh yeah, that's neat" kind of stuff.

[Wayne-Tec]

And as Rick mentioned earlier, most collectors don't --at this point in time-- put as much thought into the history of these books, or the combination of factors that makes them special. But something to consider as time moves forward is that 2014 is a much different era than 2004, 1994, 1984, so on and so forth.

 

The characters who originated in the pages of the very books we treasure are experiencing success and exposure on levels many collectors could have never imagined. As technology advances by leaps and bounds, information is more readily available than ever before. You don't have to physically dig through the pages of a specific book that may or may not even be available at your local bookstore any more. Now, you can learn so much more about these characters, their history and the origins behind their creation, and you can learn about these things at your fingertips -- iPhones, iPads, MacBooks, Kindles, etc.

 

Do I expect most collectors to delve into it as much as I do? Probably not. But in an economy that's less than stellar, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect collectors who drop five-six figures to be a little bit more interested in what lies beneath the pages of the books they purchase. The leg-work past collectors had to put into learning has been drastically simplified, hence, making it much easier for collectors to be exposed to, and in-turn excited about, this kind of info.

 

The next generation of collectors will be, collectively, more up to snuff technologically and more easily equipped to gather the information that continues to become more readily available. I think in the long run, that perspective will be stronger --and more motivating-- than the "it's cool" mentality that seems to dominate current spending trends.

[mrmyst]

"most collectors don't --at this point in time-- put as much thought into the history of these books, or the combination of factors that makes them special."

 

You might want to re-think that. I've been collecting Golden Age comics for 30 years, and have met hundreds of Golden Age collectors. Virtually every single one of them puts a great deal of thought into the "history of these books." (thumbs u

[peewee22]

IN addition to the reasons that he states, there is also the added desirability of owning the first appearance of Captain America over an issue '1' of a character that had already been out for a bit.

 

None of the other big-time GA books have the combination Cap #1 has:

 

*No.1 issue of a series devoted to that specific superhero.

*First appearance of a classic superhero.

*Origin of a classic superhero.

*First appearance of that superhero's arch nemesis (Red Skull).

*Classic cover.

*Impressive cover artistically/visually.

 

Action #1 -- an anthology series, one hero story, classic but artistically simple cover.

Tec #27 -- an anthology series, one hero story, no origin whatsoever.

Superman #1 -- no 1st app., mostly reprinted material, no notable villains.

Batman #1 -- not the 1st app., of the title character.

Marvel #1 -- No top-tier characters, no noteworthy villains.

 

In those respects, no other GA book is in Cap #1's league. And the combination of factors listed above are, to me, much more than "Oh yeah, that's neat" kind of stuff.

 

Wayne-Tec, I hate to burst your bubble but Cap 1 will never have the iconic impact that Action 1 or Tec 27 have had on the hobby.

 

No way.

[Wayne-Tec]

"most collectors don't --at this point in time-- put as much thought into the history of these books, or the combination of factors that makes them special."

 

You might want to re-think that. I've been collecting Golden Age comics for 30 years, and have met hundreds of Golden Age collectors. Virtually every single one of them puts a great deal of thought into the "history of these books." (thumbs u

 

You're right in the sense that I should be more careful with terms like "most" as it's really tough to quantify. If you scroll back a page or two to one of my prior posts, you'll see that I've expressed how fortunate I've been to know some really passionate collectors. And many of my experiences echo what you said above -- that they do know and love the history of these books and characters.

 

I was speaking in respects to those --however few or many-- who think more along the lines of "it's cool" as opposed to delving into the history.

 

Wayne-Tec, I hate to burst your bubble but Cap 1 will never have the iconic impact that Action 1 or Tec 27 have had on the hobby.

 

I'm not sure what you mean in respects to iconic impact, I was just pointing out the combination of important, desirable factors found in Cap #1, and the fact that many of the other top books don't possess all of them in one single issue.

 

I wouldn't put Cap #1 ahead of Action #1 or Tec #27 -- but comparing it to Superman #1 is a different story.

[peewee22]

"most collectors don't --at this point in time-- put as much thought into the history of these books, or the combination of factors that makes them special."

 

You might want to re-think that. I've been collecting Golden Age comics for 30 years, and have met hundreds of Golden Age collectors. Virtually every single one of them puts a great deal of thought into the "history of these books." (thumbs u

 

You're right in the sense that I should be more careful with terms like "most" as it's really tough to quantify. If you scroll back a page or two to one of my prior posts, you'll see that I've expressed how fortunate I've been to know some really passionate collectors. And many of my experiences echo what you said above -- that they do know and love the history of these books and characters.

 

I was speaking in respects to those --however few or many-- who think more along the lines of "it's cool" as opposed to delving into the history.

 

Wayne-Tec, I hate to burst your bubble but Cap 1 will never have the iconic impact that Action 1 or Tec 27 have had on the hobby.

 

I'm not sure what you mean in respects to iconic impact, I was just pointing out the combination of important, desirable factors found in Cap #1, and the fact that many of the other top books don't possess all of them in one single issue.

 

I wouldn't put Cap #1 ahead of Action #1 or Tec #27 -- but comparing it to Superman #1 is a different story.

 

I see. Thanks for clarifying.

[Wayne-Tec]

"most collectors don't --at this point in time-- put as much thought into the history of these books, or the combination of factors that makes them special."

 

You might want to re-think that. I've been collecting Golden Age comics for 30 years, and have met hundreds of Golden Age collectors. Virtually every single one of them puts a great deal of thought into the "history of these books." (thumbs u

 

You're right in the sense that I should be more careful with terms like "most" as it's really tough to quantify. If you scroll back a page or two to one of my prior posts, you'll see that I've expressed how fortunate I've been to know some really passionate collectors. And many of my experiences echo what you said above -- that they do know and love the history of these books and characters.

 

I was speaking in respects to those --however few or many-- who think more along the lines of "it's cool" as opposed to delving into the history.

 

Wayne-Tec, I hate to burst your bubble but Cap 1 will never have the iconic impact that Action 1 or Tec 27 have had on the hobby.

 

I'm not sure what you mean in respects to iconic impact, I was just pointing out the combination of important, desirable factors found in Cap #1, and the fact that many of the other top books don't possess all of them in one single issue.

 

I wouldn't put Cap #1 ahead of Action #1 or Tec #27 -- but comparing it to Superman #1 is a different story.

 

I see. Thanks for clarifying.

 

(thumbs u

[Jaydogrules]

IN addition to the reasons that he states, there is also the added desirability of owning the first appearance of Captain America over an issue '1' of a character that had already been out for a bit.

 

None of the other big-time GA books have the combination Cap #1 has:

 

*No.1 issue of a series devoted to that specific superhero.

*First appearance of a classic superhero.

*Origin of a classic superhero.

*First appearance of that superhero's arch nemesis (Red Skull).

*Classic cover.

*Impressive cover artistically/visually.

 

Action #1 -- an anthology series, one hero story, classic but artistically simple cover.

Tec #27 -- an anthology series, one hero story, no origin whatsoever.

Superman #1 -- no 1st app., mostly reprinted material, no notable villains.

Batman #1 -- not the 1st app., of the title character.

Marvel #1 -- No top-tier characters, no noteworthy villains.

 

In those respects, no other GA book is in Cap #1's league. And the combination of factors listed above are, to me, much more than "Oh yeah, that's neat" kind of stuff.

 

Wayne-Tec, I hate to burst your bubble but Cap 1 will never have the iconic impact that Action 1 or Tec 27 have had on the hobby.

 

No way.

 

Their relative ages not being a part of the equation, I'm not so sure cap 1 had/has the iconic impact of AF 15 either. Ah hell I wish I could afford to own all those great books!

 

-J.

[sartre]

Least we forget.... Cap is for the most part.....Marvel's first Superhero...created by Simon and Kirby...

 

By the way Kirby did the cover of AF 15 ...

 

Caps popularity earned him titles such as USA comics, All Select comics, and All Winners comics... and transitioned into the silver age from the 40's to the 50's to the 60's...

[Filter81]

Cap 1 will not move past superman 1. While waynetec statements make sense and are valid, folks playing in that end of the pool generally (not all of course) don't care as much about that as they do the "trophy". The rareness factor drives the 6 fig + pricing. That factor alone (rarity) will keep supes above cap 1 price wise

 

+1

 

This is all based strictly on value (not historical importance)

 

MAYBE someday restored Cap 1s will come close to restored Sup 1 pricing. (Sup 1 is the first time an entire comic was devoted to one superhero. Cap 1 has the iconic cover and a major 1st appearance. Both are cool books) But even that is a bit of a stretch.

 

When it comes to unrestored copies, it's not even close. Superman 1 is too much rarer than Cap 1 when unrestored. Superman 1 will always sell for more unrestored than Cap 1 for the same reason the price of Hulk 181 will never surpass the price on an Action 1 regardless of which character is more popular.

 

The top 3 books in the hobby unrestored by value are 1) Action 1 2) Detective 27 3) Superman 1. Everything else is a distant 4th.

 

I don't think Marvel 1 is 4th anymore either. Pep 22 is making a strong argument for 4th place lately. Action 7 is probably in the discussion too. I heard about an Action 7 in high grade that sold privately for well more than a Cap 1 or Marvel 1 would've sold for in the same grade. And an Action 7 CGC 1.0 just sold for $32500 which I think is more than Cap 1 or Marvel 1 would get in auction.

 

Marvel 1 vs Cap 1 I abstain from voting. Too close to call. Cap 1 seems on pace to take over Marvel 1 pretty soon unless current trends change.

 

 

 

 

[Wayne-Tec]

Thanks for the feedback Adam. Always appreciate your insight bro. (thumbs u

 

While there's obviously a much greater gap scarcity-wise, I like the Action #1/Hulk #181 analogy in respects to popularity. Similar principle contributes to Cap #1 being more valuable than AF #15. So I can't deny the tremendous impact it has, but I do think its worth considering that the scarcity-factor hasn't been enough to keep Marvel #1 ahead of Cap #1 -- so I think in the long run, a book needs more than scarcity to stay above another. Realistically, I don't see Cap #1 passing Superman #1 in the near future, but I won't be shocked if the gap is shortened some as time goes on.

 

This recent trend of early, classic cover books (e.g. Action #7, Tec #31) out-performing treasured books of significant content/ desirability (e.g. Batman #1, Cap #1, Marvel #1) does not have the legs, IMHO, to withstand decades. Those books simply don't have the relevant interior content to supersede the legendary books mentioned that have both classic covers and interior content that is very importantly and very directly related to the box office sensations that expose the globe to the character's exploits.

 

Factors of scarcity and cool cover syndrome won't be enough in the long run to keep them ahead, again, IMO. I believe that with greater knowledge, and the subsequent greater appreciation and love of history that comes with it -- certain books have a lot of room for growth. If trophy-syndrome and "it's cool" factors are enough to motivate people to drop five-six figures on these books, imagine how much more fun and engaging collecting them becomes when people realize how rich their history is, and how relevant the book's interior content has become.

 

Just my two cents.

[Illustrious]

Thanks for the feedback Adam. Always appreciate your insight bro. (thumbs u

 

While there's obviously a much greater gap scarcity-wise, I like the Action #1/Hulk #181 analogy in respects to popularity. Similar principle contributes to Cap #1 being more valuable than AF #15. So I can't deny the tremendous impact it has, but I do think its worth considering that the scarcity-factor hasn't been enough to keep Marvel #1 ahead of Cap #1 -- so I think in the long run, a book needs more than scarcity to stay above another. Realistically, I don't see Cap #1 passing Superman #1 in the near future, but I won't be shocked if the gap is shortened some as time goes on.

 

This recent trend of early, classic cover books (e.g. Action #7, Tec #31) out-performing treasured books of significant content/ desirability (e.g. Batman #1, Cap #1, Marvel #1) does not have the legs, IMHO, to withstand decades. Those books simply don't have the relevant interior content to supersede the legendary books mentioned that have both classic covers and interior content that is very importantly and very directly related to the box office sensations that expose the globe to the character's exploits.

 

Factors of scarcity and cool cover syndrome won't be enough in the long run to keep them ahead, again, IMO. I believe that with greater knowledge, and the subsequent greater appreciation and love of history that comes with it -- certain books have a lot of room for growth. If trophy-syndrome and "it's cool" factors are enough to motivate people to drop five-six figures on these books, imagine how much more fun and engaging collecting them becomes when people realize how rich their history is, and how relevant the book's interior content has become.

 

Just my two cents.

 

I think they will have legs, because Action #7/#10 and TEC #29/#31 still came out before Supes and Bats #1, and I'm sure there are many others like me who find that more relevant and desirable than the later first issue books that are not even first appearances.

[Wayne-Tec]

Thanks for the feedback Adam. Always appreciate your insight bro. (thumbs u

 

While there's obviously a much greater gap scarcity-wise, I like the Action #1/Hulk #181 analogy in respects to popularity. Similar principle contributes to Cap #1 being more valuable than AF #15. So I can't deny the tremendous impact it has, but I do think its worth considering that the scarcity-factor hasn't been enough to keep Marvel #1 ahead of Cap #1 -- so I think in the long run, a book needs more than scarcity to stay above another. Realistically, I don't see Cap #1 passing Superman #1 in the near future, but I won't be shocked if the gap is shortened some as time goes on.

 

This recent trend of early, classic cover books (e.g. Action #7, Tec #31) out-performing treasured books of significant content/ desirability (e.g. Batman #1, Cap #1, Marvel #1) does not have the legs, IMHO, to withstand decades. Those books simply don't have the relevant interior content to supersede the legendary books mentioned that have both classic covers and interior content that is very importantly and very directly related to the box office sensations that expose the globe to the character's exploits.

 

Factors of scarcity and cool cover syndrome won't be enough in the long run to keep them ahead, again, IMO. I believe that with greater knowledge, and the subsequent greater appreciation and love of history that comes with it -- certain books have a lot of room for growth. If trophy-syndrome and "it's cool" factors are enough to motivate people to drop five-six figures on these books, imagine how much more fun and engaging collecting them becomes when people realize how rich their history is, and how relevant the book's interior content has become.

 

Just my two cents.

 

I think they will have legs, because Action #7/#10 and TEC #29/#31 still came out before Supes and Bats #1, and I'm sure there are many others like me who find that more relevant and desirable than the later first issue books that are not even first appearances.

 

While I myself find the historical significance of the major books to be, amongst other factors, powerful, historically-enduring reasons to love these books, I think that it's a good thing for collectors to have different tastes. The common ground here is that we LOVE these books. We don't post on message boards early in the AM without sharing that passion.

[AlexanderM]

I think the Sup 1 cover is classic too.

[VintageComics]

I'm in my early 40's and while the DC books are iconic in nature, the Cap-1 book just does it for me from the artwork to the historical significance (WW2) to the current popularity in mainstream media. I would find it hard to believe Cap-1 doesn't 'close the gap' with the DC books in the next decade given the embrace that Captain America is now seeing worldwide with the younger generations, especially if the CA franchise continues to do well at the box-office... This discussion, imo, isn't about what the 40+ crowd feels but rather how the events of today and tomorrow will shape the valuation landscape of these books in the coming decade or two...

 

Just my thoughts & opinions but I would think if you laid out all four books in front of a 20-to-35 year old collector and stated they all have equal value, Cap-1 would I bet would be selected first more than it wasn't.

 

It's an apples and oranges discussion again, as always happens when some people talk about dollar values and some don't.

 

Cap #1 may have increased in value lately due to media exposure of the character but I don't think it's a more important book than Marvel #1. And if dollar values were not as high as they are for key books, my opinion is that the investment crowd wouldn't have pushed the value of Cap #1 so high. It's the appeal of investment that changes market leaders so drastically IMO and not a change of heart and not the immediate new love of a character.

 

And I'm not dumping on Cap #1, it's a killer book...and I'm primarily a Timely guy, but there was a time when it was a slow book.

[Moetown]

I'm in my early 40's and while the DC books are iconic in nature, the Cap-1 book just does it for me from the artwork to the historical significance (WW2) to the current popularity in mainstream media. I would find it hard to believe Cap-1 doesn't 'close the gap' with the DC books in the next decade given the embrace that Captain America is now seeing worldwide with the younger generations, especially if the CA franchise continues to do well at the box-office... This discussion, imo, isn't about what the 40+ crowd feels but rather how the events of today and tomorrow will shape the valuation landscape of these books in the coming decade or two...

 

Just my thoughts & opinions but I would think if you laid out all four books in front of a 20-to-35 year old collector and stated they all have equal value, Cap-1 would I bet would be selected first more than it wasn't.

 

It's an apples and oranges discussion again, as always happens when some people talk about dollar values and some don't.

 

Cap #1 may have increased in value lately due to media exposure of the character but I don't think it's a more important book than Marvel #1. And if dollar values were not as high as they are for key books, my opinion is that the investment crowd wouldn't have pushed the value of Cap #1 so high. It's the appeal of investment that changes market leaders so drastically IMO and not a change of heart and not the immediate new love of a character.

 

And I'm not dumping on Cap #1, it's a killer book...and I'm primarily a Timely guy, but there was a time when it was a slow book.

 

Thanks Roy for your thoughts and I'm probably not explaining myself well (like usual )... No dumping on Cap-1 taken whatsoever as it is interesting to read everyone's opinions on this topic as it has been an excellent discussion to follow.

 

The question, for me at least, is if the Cap-1 book is in a sustainable growth mode over a longer time frame and how that growth compares vs. the other Big-3. It'll be interesting to follow as we move forward as we see PEP-22 making a move upward, per Adam's above post, so how will all these books look, in hierarchy/valuation, in 5-10-15 years from now.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Moetown

[peewee22]

I'm in my early 40's and while the DC books are iconic in nature, the Cap-1 book just does it for me from the artwork to the historical significance (WW2) to the current popularity in mainstream media. I would find it hard to believe Cap-1 doesn't 'close the gap' with the DC books in the next decade given the embrace that Captain America is now seeing worldwide with the younger generations, especially if the CA franchise continues to do well at the box-office... This discussion, imo, isn't about what the 40+ crowd feels but rather how the events of today and tomorrow will shape the valuation landscape of these books in the coming decade or two...

 

Just my thoughts & opinions but I would think if you laid out all four books in front of a 20-to-35 year old collector and stated they all have equal value, Cap-1 would I bet would be selected first more than it wasn't.

 

It's an apples and oranges discussion again, as always happens when some people talk about dollar values and some don't.

 

Glad someone sees thru my eyes. (thumbs u

 

Cap #1 may have increased in value lately due to media exposure of the character but I don't think it's a more important book than Marvel #1. And if dollar values were not as high as they are for key books, my opinion is that the investment crowd wouldn't have pushed the value of Cap #1 so high. It's the appeal of investment that changes market leaders so drastically IMO and not a change of heart and not the immediate new love of a character.

 

And I'm not dumping on Cap #1, it's a killer book...and I'm primarily a Timely guy, but there was a time when it was a slow book.

[VintageComics]

I'm in my early 40's and while the DC books are iconic in nature, the Cap-1 book just does it for me from the artwork to the historical significance (WW2) to the current popularity in mainstream media. I would find it hard to believe Cap-1 doesn't 'close the gap' with the DC books in the next decade given the embrace that Captain America is now seeing worldwide with the younger generations, especially if the CA franchise continues to do well at the box-office... This discussion, imo, isn't about what the 40+ crowd feels but rather how the events of today and tomorrow will shape the valuation landscape of these books in the coming decade or two...

 

Just my thoughts & opinions but I would think if you laid out all four books in front of a 20-to-35 year old collector and stated they all have equal value, Cap-1 would I bet would be selected first more than it wasn't.

 

It's an apples and oranges discussion again, as always happens when some people talk about dollar values and some don't.

 

Cap #1 may have increased in value lately due to media exposure of the character but I don't think it's a more important book than Marvel #1. And if dollar values were not as high as they are for key books, my opinion is that the investment crowd wouldn't have pushed the value of Cap #1 so high. It's the appeal of investment that changes market leaders so drastically IMO and not a change of heart and not the immediate new love of a character.

 

And I'm not dumping on Cap #1, it's a killer book...and I'm primarily a Timely guy, but there was a time when it was a slow book.

 

Thanks Roy for your thoughts and I'm probably not explaining myself well (like usual )... No dumping on Cap-1 taken whatsoever as it is interesting to read everyone's opinions on this topic as it has been an excellent discussion to follow.

 

The question, for me at least, is if the Cap-1 book is in a sustainable growth mode over a longer time frame and how that growth compares vs. the other Big-3. It'll be interesting to follow as we move forward as we see PEP-22 making a move upward, per Adam's above post, so how will all these books look, in hierarchy/valuation, in 5-10-15 years from now.

(thumbs u

 

What I find more interesting than the ranking is how they got there.

 

It's not about reading anymore, which nobody foresaw coming decades ago.

[gadzukes]

5 years ago when I had an extra $5000 to spend, I knew I wanted to to get the best GA key I could find for $5K.

 

After looking around for a while I found a nice looking Cap 1 (missing a cf) in the $4500 range. I got really excited looking at that cover. My God, Cap is punching Hitler in the face!!! When I checked out Overstreet prices I couldn't believe that a comic like that was going for such low prices. I was convinced it was undervalued so I bought it.

 

When my friends ask me what my best comics are I tell them I have Superman 1 (I have 2 coverless copies) and they don't change their expressions. When I tell them I have Captain America 1 they get really excited, and when I tell them Cap is punching Hitler in the face on the cover they really react.

 

I might have to agree with WayneTec..... Cap 1 may pass Supe 1 within the next 5 years.