Captain America Comics #1 Club 14 14

[peewee22]

Not sure if I'd ever put Cap 1 above Marvel 1.

 

Marvel 1 has always been in the top 3 iconic GA books.

[Wayne-Tec]

Where has cap 1 outsold marvel 1 grade for grade

I'm not saying it won't, but what are the same time frame sales that confirm that statement?

 

Last sales I looked at are quite dated as marvel 1 has been pretty scarce in the market lately so maybe I missed something?

 

With GA books, it's awfully tough for there to be comparative sales, grade-for-grade, within a close timeframe. I was basing it off of a few factors, one of which was your response to my question in the Ask Gator thread recently regarding current FMV for Universal 2.0 copies:

 

Captain America 1 ...25k-30k

Marvel 1...25k

 

If a Universal 2.5 copy of Marvel #1 came to the market with tape along the entire spine and an extra staple, I doubt it would sell for $39,000+ the way a Cap #1 recently did.

 

Back in February, I posed the question in this thread regarding Cap #1 vs. Marvel #1 and the overall sentiment seemed to indicate that Cap #1 had taken the top Timely spot.

 

If I'm mistaken and recent sales figures indicate otherwise, please point me in the right direction.

[Primetime]

I doubt there are many Cap #1 owners under 30 as well.

 

If you can afford a nice cap #1, you can probably buy a supes #1.

 

I was 25 when I bought my first Cap 1 --it was a Fair

[sartre]

Where has cap 1 outsold marvel 1 grade for grade

I'm not saying it won't, but what are the same time frame sales that confirm that statement?

 

Last sales I looked at are quite dated as marvel 1 has been pretty scarce in the market lately so maybe I missed something?

 

Recently it has or has in low grade... In high grade .. at least right now... We are not seeing Marvel 1's come up for sale right now because it sells for under guide at this point.

 

Marvel 1 is a significant book... but still looks like a pulp cover...Marvel 4 and 5 and 9 are better covers

Edited July 20, 2014 by sartre

[peewee22]

I'd take Marvel 1 over Cap 1 any day and twice on Sun thru Sat. (thumbs u

[sartre]

I'd take Marvel 1 over Cap 1 any day and twice on Sun thru Sat. (thumbs u

 

I would not trade my Cap 1 in 9.4 for a Marvel 1 in 9.4...

[Xela]

I'd take Marvel 1 over Cap 1 any day and twice on Sun thru Sat. (thumbs u

 

I would not trade my Cap 1 in 9.4 for a Marvel 1 in 9.4...

 

Same with my 9.8

 

 

 

 

 

If only

[peewee22]

I'd take Marvel 1 over Cap 1 any day and twice on Sun thru Sat. (thumbs u

 

I would not trade my Cap 1 in 9.4 for a Marvel 1 in 9.4...

 

I'm just the opposite. Of course, I'm old fashioned with the firm belief that Marvel 1, Action 1, and Tec 27 will always be the Big 3. (thumbs u

[sartre]

I'd take Marvel 1 over Cap 1 any day and twice on Sun thru Sat. (thumbs u

 

I would not trade my Cap 1 in 9.4 for a Marvel 1 in 9.4...

 

I'm just the opposite. Of course, I'm old fashioned with the firm belief that Marvel 1, Action 1, and Tec 27 will always be the Big 3. (thumbs u

 

Still Cap #1 is Simon and Kirby... an awesome cover.. way better than any of the big three.. {since CGC} covers have become very significant to collectors..

Edited July 20, 2014 by sartre

[peewee22]

I'd take Marvel 1 over Cap 1 any day and twice on Sun thru Sat. (thumbs u

 

I would not trade my Cap 1 in 9.4 for a Marvel 1 in 9.4...

 

I'm just the opposite. Of course, I'm old fashioned with the firm belief that Marvel 1, Action 1, and Tec 27 will always be the Big 3. (thumbs u

 

Still Cap #1 is Simon and Kirby... an awesome cover.. way better than any of the big three.. {since CGC} covers have become very significant to collectors..

 

Way better?

 

Hard to beat that Action1 by S&S.

[sartre]

I'd take Marvel 1 over Cap 1 any day and twice on Sun thru Sat. (thumbs u

 

I would not trade my Cap 1 in 9.4 for a Marvel 1 in 9.4...

 

I'm just the opposite. Of course, I'm old fashioned with the firm belief that Marvel 1, Action 1, and Tec 27 will always be the Big 3. (thumbs u

 

Still Cap #1 is Simon and Kirby... an awesome cover.. way better than any of the big three.. {since CGC} covers have become very significant to collectors..

 

Way better?

 

Hard to beat that Action1 by S&S.

 

As ART.. In my opinion.. Action 1 is pretty dull visually..and Tech 27 ...can Bob Kane draw?

Edited July 20, 2014 by sartre

[peewee22]

That's the beauty of the boards. Everyone has their loves and opinions.

[sartre]

That's the beauty of the boards. Everyone has their loves and opinions.

 

Yes True... its all opinion

 

I just think Kirby got shafted as an artist... he's still more significant than we give him credit for.. and he could draw hands even in the 40's.

Edited July 20, 2014 by sartre

[AlexanderM]

IMO, Cap #1 has only begun to scrape the surface of its potential.

 

It's long been recognized for its "classic cover", and as a very desirable book, but it's really so much more. Unlike any other GA book that I can think of, Cap #1 has a real word connection that makes it undeniably unique. Not only was it Simon and Kirby's first breakthrough creation (akin to FF #1 being Stan Lee's first breakthrough creation), but it was a real world response to the evils of Nazism. Simon and Kirby were both Jewish and Cap #1 was a political, personal statement to show their desire for the U.S. to enter WWII.

 

Lex Luthor, the Joker, Two-Face -- they're all great villains of fiction. But the real world of the early 1940's was facing a real life threat, a real life evil unlike anything ever seen in modern history. Captain America's origin was tied in, storyline-wise, as a direct response to that real world threat. He was America's answer -- physically, emotionally and symbolically. That real world relevance puts the character on a different level than his contemporaries of the time. Because of this, Captain America can be appreciated by both comic book fans and students of history alike. The voice and vision of the American man was captured in Cap #1.

 

Beyond that, Cap #1 has ascended to claim the spot as the hobby's most valuable "Marvel" comic book. And as I've stated before, that's very significant to the many collectors who was "Marvel zombies" and don't really care for DC. To them, Action #1 and Tec #27 don't hold the same appeal -- they want the very best of what their universe has to offer. The fact that Marvel has gone on to become the industry's No. 1 company is highly significant. Because we're not talking about Cap #1 as the top book of a cult company -- we're talking about the top book, born from THE top company.

 

We've seen the T206 Honus Wagner card (a player with little modern day relevance, comparatively speaking) break the $2,000,000 mark. We've seen stamps sell for millions of dollars. When you consider the very direct, very relevant connections Captain America has to modern day forms of entertainment, and the vast room comic books still have to grow in a world record sense -- I don't think it's a stretch at all to think that a CGC 9.8 Cap #1 could be a $2,000,000 book.

 

Before the $1,000,000 sale of the CGC 8.0 Action #1, the perception of how valuable a comic book could be was vastly different. In a short period of time, that changed tremendously. Due to factors of both nostalgia and modern-relevance, comic books are very unique. And there's a plethora of reasons to think that there's still a lot of room for significant growth.

 

Cap 1 will not outpace Action 1 or Tec 27 but it could outpace Supe 1. Holding it back is the fact that it's more commonly found than the others. But it's a first appearance as well as a #1, and it's got a real history component, as the man says, which the others do not have. The cover can be appreciated on levels beyond that of any other golden age key.

 

If the #1 itself is going beyond the reach of many, then maybe consider the books that contained ads for Cap 1 which were on the stands before Cap 1 itself. At least one of those ads features a prelim image of cap before the wings were added to his head. And these books can be found pretty cheap

 

The fact that it has a history component that AC1, Tec27... or for that matter AF15 and BB28 do not have... could be a strenght, but it could definitely also be a weakness.

 

Because whereas the others are timeless... their stories and legends exist like timeless fairytales..while CA1 is tied to a particular time in history. What happens when WWII is a distant memory like perhaps "Battle at the River Jhelum"?? Will CA1 loose some relevance because it is not as timeless as the other big ones?

 

Many in this thread have a CA1, so I'm not counting on people saying "yes, it will loose relevance".. hhehe... but just consider it..

[sartre]

IMO, Cap #1 has only begun to scrape the surface of its potential.

 

It's long been recognized for its "classic cover", and as a very desirable book, but it's really so much more. Unlike any other GA book that I can think of, Cap #1 has a real word connection that makes it undeniably unique. Not only was it Simon and Kirby's first breakthrough creation (akin to FF #1 being Stan Lee's first breakthrough creation), but it was a real world response to the evils of Nazism. Simon and Kirby were both Jewish and Cap #1 was a political, personal statement to show their desire for the U.S. to enter WWII.

 

Lex Luthor, the Joker, Two-Face -- they're all great villains of fiction. But the real world of the early 1940's was facing a real life threat, a real life evil unlike anything ever seen in modern history. Captain America's origin was tied in, storyline-wise, as a direct response to that real world threat. He was America's answer -- physically, emotionally and symbolically. That real world relevance puts the character on a different level than his contemporaries of the time. Because of this, Captain America can be appreciated by both comic book fans and students of history alike. The voice and vision of the American man was captured in Cap #1.

 

Beyond that, Cap #1 has ascended to claim the spot as the hobby's most valuable "Marvel" comic book. And as I've stated before, that's very significant to the many collectors who was "Marvel zombies" and don't really care for DC. To them, Action #1 and Tec #27 don't hold the same appeal -- they want the very best of what their universe has to offer. The fact that Marvel has gone on to become the industry's No. 1 company is highly significant. Because we're not talking about Cap #1 as the top book of a cult company -- we're talking about the top book, born from THE top company.

 

We've seen the T206 Honus Wagner card (a player with little modern day relevance, comparatively speaking) break the $2,000,000 mark. We've seen stamps sell for millions of dollars. When you consider the very direct, very relevant connections Captain America has to modern day forms of entertainment, and the vast room comic books still have to grow in a world record sense -- I don't think it's a stretch at all to think that a CGC 9.8 Cap #1 could be a $2,000,000 book.

 

Before the $1,000,000 sale of the CGC 8.0 Action #1, the perception of how valuable a comic book could be was vastly different. In a short period of time, that changed tremendously. Due to factors of both nostalgia and modern-relevance, comic books are very unique. And there's a plethora of reasons to think that there's still a lot of room for significant growth.

 

Cap 1 will not outpace Action 1 or Tec 27 but it could outpace Supe 1. Holding it back is the fact that it's more commonly found than the others. But it's a first appearance as well as a #1, and it's got a real history component, as the man says, which the others do not have. The cover can be appreciated on levels beyond that of any other golden age key.

 

If the #1 itself is going beyond the reach of many, then maybe consider the books that contained ads for Cap 1 which were on the stands before Cap 1 itself. At least one of those ads features a prelim image of cap before the wings were added to his head. And these books can be found pretty cheap

 

The fact that it has a history component that AC1, Tec27... or for that matter AF15 and BB28 do not have... could be a strenght, but it could definitely also be a weakness.

 

Because whereas the others are timeless... their stories and legends exist like timeless fairytales..while CA1 is tied to a particular time in history. What happens when WWII is a distant memory like perhaps "Battle at the River Jhelum"?? Will CA1 loose some relevance because it is not as timeless as the other big ones?

 

Many in this thread have a CA1, so I'm not counting on people saying "yes, it will loose relevance".. hhehe... but just consider it..

 

True...nothing will last and everything will pass...even comic books..

The philosopher Hegel once said "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom." but he also said

"The only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history"

 

It's my hope WW2 is never forgotten

 

 

[Wayne-Tec]

The fact that it has a history component that AC1, Tec27... or for that matter AF15 and BB28 do not have... could be a strenght, but it could definitely also be a weakness.

 

Because whereas the others are timeless... their stories and legends exist like timeless fairytales..while CA1 is tied to a particular time in history. What happens when WWII is a distant memory like perhaps "Battle at the River Jhelum"?? Will CA1 loose some relevance because it is not as timeless as the other big ones?

 

Many in this thread have a CA1, so I'm not counting on people saying "yes, it will loose relevance".. hhehe... but just consider it..

 

Captain America's battles against the Nazis in Cap #1 are not much more era-specific than Superman's battles against Great Depression-related struggles in Action #1.

 

Simply not fighting villains tied to a specific year is not what makes characters or stories "timeless", and by the same token, fighting villains or wars that actually took place during specific years does not disqualify a book from being timeless either.

 

Unlike Action #1, Tec #27 and AF #15, which included only one hero-story a piece, Cap #1 features four hero stories—including the hero's origin (absent from Tec #27) and the 1st app. of his arch-nemesis (absent from Action #1, Tec #27 and AF #15).

[Illustrious]

I'm with Wayne-Tec here, I'm also in my early 30's and I consider Cap #1 a more relevant and desired book over Marvel #1. I respect the history and rarity of Marvel #1, but it's a much more important book to the "old guard" than the younger generation of collectors getting into GA now.

[sartre]

The fact that it has a history component that AC1, Tec27... or for that matter AF15 and BB28 do not have... could be a strenght, but it could definitely also be a weakness.

 

Because whereas the others are timeless... their stories and legends exist like timeless fairytales..while CA1 is tied to a particular time in history. What happens when WWII is a distant memory like perhaps "Battle at the River Jhelum"?? Will CA1 loose some relevance because it is not as timeless as the other big ones?

 

Many in this thread have a CA1, so I'm not counting on people saying "yes, it will loose relevance".. hhehe... but just consider it..

 

Captain America's battles against the Nazis in Cap #1 are not much more era-specific than Superman's battles against Great Depression-related struggles in Action #1.

 

Simply not fighting villains tied to a specific year is not what makes characters or stories "timeless", and by the same token, fighting villains or wars that actually took place during specific years does not disqualify a book from being timeless either.

 

Unlike Action #1, Tec #27 and AF #15, which included only one hero-story a piece, Cap #1 features four hero stories—including the hero's origin (absent from Tec #27) and the 1st app. of his arch-nemesis (absent from Action #1, Tec #27 and AF #15).

 

Superman was our first modern superhero. Batman our first modern Super anti-hero, and Captain America our first modern Super war-hero. Prior to these were the crime fighters and western hero's of pop culture etc... The advent of Superman in pop culture in the late 30's.. in my opinion was a subliminal response by two jewish kids in the mid west to Nietzsche's "Superman"... concurrent with the Nazi interpretation. I'm not arguing the iconic importance of Superman in our mythology, I just wish he were drawn as well as Cap. I wonder what Action 1 would look like to us now if it were drawn by Mac Rayboy? or Tech 27 by Will Eisner or Lou Fine?

Edited July 20, 2014 by sartre

[Wayne-Tec]

I'm not arguing the iconic importance of Superman in our mythology, I just wish he were drawn as well as Cap.

 

Simon and Kirby's work on Captain America is some of the finest art of the Golden Age. As much as I treasure the advent of the "super" hero and the heart found in Siegel and Shuster's Superman -- and as much as I love the unique, dark and gothic tone found in the art work Kane/Moldoff/Robinson's Batman -- S&K's Captain America is on another level entirely -- from the layouts to the "life" Kirby gave character-movement.

 

And from a front-cover standpoint, Cap #1 is not only the most historically-significant, but its combination of meaning, symbolism, action and heart puts it on a level that stretches far beyond our medium.

[sartre]

Also... It's too bad some of the strip artists of the day were not drawing covers. Imagine if Alex Raymond drew Batman.... or Hal Foster Superman ?

Edited July 20, 2014 by sartre