Second Action 1 9.0 to hit the census

[VintageComics]

Yes they were. There was actually a guy named "Action1kid" and he would start lots of threads about Action 1. There were so many threads about Action 1 that I remember one member having a fit.

 

The reason that there weren`t many threads about Action 1 sales prior to 2009 was because there were hardly any sales of unrestored Action 1s from around 2002 or 2003 when the White Rose copy sold (which Action1kid ended up buying a bit later after it had upgraded to a 6.5) until the one that sold on Comicconnect to Dolmayan (which in retrospect was a massive bargain).

 

Action1kid was an exception to the rule and he was excited because he owned one at the time. He was just pumpin' his book.

 

Action #1's were still selling, though. I remember seeing a at least one, possibly more sell on eBay!

 

It just wasn't an event like it is now, and the reason is obvious - it's distanced itself value wise from all other books.

[comicdonna]

I miss Peter's posts.

[Crowzilla]

So Whiz #1, Thunda and a few others weren't close in price in the guide in the early years?

 

By the way, when the Marvel #1 Pay copy sold for $350,000 and was the most expensive selling book at that time, and it was nearly a decade later when an Action #1 broke $300K, was that my Marvel centric view?

 

Thunda was certainly disproportionately high in early issues of the guide (higher than Adventure 40 I'm sure and some other late risers), but not near the levels of Action 1, Marvel 1, or Whiz 1, no.

 

And now you want to bring Parrino's overpaying for the Marvel #1 as proof of your argument?

 

What about the fact that Parrino also advertised to pay a million for an Action #1 even back then?

It's simply not fair to highlight that single sale from someone who was trying to make a market by doing so when no comparable copies of Action 1 came up for sale in the interim.

As it's been said here before, many smart people sold their books to Parrino for a tidy profit when he entered the hobby, and then were able to buy them back a few years later at a substantial discount.

 

[DarrenSmith]

If it was a prominent dealer who sold it to Darren Adams in the last year would have known about the Metropolis sales, so why wouldn't have that dealer gone to Metro for assistance?

Have we really gotten to the point where people think that the fact that someone didn`t sell an Action 1 through Metropolis means it`s shady?

 

Let me break down what I was saying:

 

I was just saying I would think a prominent dealer has the knowledge and desire to maximize the money he received for the book vs selling the book to another dealer with enough money left on the table for the dealer to turn right around and flip it for profit as soon as the next Overstreet comes out. It doesn't doesn't sound true to me. Much like how Dave (Raven) had convinced almost the whole board he discovered the Batman Ashcan. He even hoodwinked Moondog and it took quite a few message to Gary for me to convince him it was fake.

 

The back story Darren Adams presents doesn't pass the sniff test for me. Heck, even the beginning of the story where he says the person bought it off the newsstand and stored it in a ceder chest is so cliche.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[woowoo]

I 2nd that. Darren Adams there is something not right................................or true with his story.

[Mmehdy]

I 2nd that. Darren Adams there is something not right................................or true with his story.

 

 

As Dave formerly of "Storage Wars" would say....YUPPPP...make that a 3d

[woowoo]

Dave formerly of "Storage Wars hes back on the new session YUPPP

[Aman619]

I personally don't care if his years are off or his story doesn't hang perfectly true so long as the book is legit. He is selling a book, and embellishments to the backstory are expected either to obscure something or protect somebody's part in the story, or just as a none of your business kind of thing.

 

Go up to any dealer and ask them the backstory of a book in their inventory, and you'll get all kinds of answers. Or no answer. Doesn't really matter unless they are hiding color touch or trimming.

[tth2]

By the way, when the Marvel #1 Pay copy sold for $350,000 and was the most expensive selling book at that time, and it was nearly a decade later when an Action #1 broke $300K, was that my Marvel centric view?

I know you`re just saying this to be argumentative at this point, right? If not, then I need to introduce you to the concept of "apples and oranges".

 

The Marvel 1 Pay Copy was a 9.0. And it sold for "only" $350K. Please tell me that you don`t believe an Action 1 in 9.0 wouldn`t have sold for well over $350K. We know that the only known slabbed comparable copy of Action 1 at the time, Daniel Kramer`s 8.5 copy, would have sold well over $350K if it had been put up for sale.

 

I honestly don`t have any memory of unrestored Action 1s publicly selling between the time of the sale of the White Rose copy and the CC auction in 2009, which is why the CC auction created so much interest. But to the extent that no Action 1 broke the $300K barrier, it was because the only copies for sale were really low grade copies.

 

 

[tth2]

I personally don't care if his years are off or his story doesn't hang perfectly true so long as the book is legit. He is selling a book, and embellishments to the backstory are expected either to obscure something or protect somebody's part in the story, or just as a none of your business kind of thing.

 

Go up to any dealer and ask them the backstory of a book in their inventory, and you'll get all kinds of answers. Or no answer. Doesn't really matter unless they are hiding color touch or trimming.

No kidding. I go back to my Maxim #1 in dealing with dealers, which is if their lips are moving, then I assume they`re lying.

 

As long as the book is genuine and appears to be deserving of the grade assigned by CGC, who gives a mess what the back story is or whether it`s true or not? If it turned out that the whole Tom Reilly back story was made up, would that make the Reilly copies any less sweet? If it turned out that the whole Edgar Church story was made up by Chuck (see Maxim #1 above), does it make the Church books any less desirable?

[woowoo]

Edgar Church would be way less desirable if story was not true?

 

COME ON MAN

[Aman619]

Read it again. He didnt say that

[DarrenSmith]

I personally don't care if his years are off or his story doesn't hang perfectly true so long as the book is legit. He is selling a book, and embellishments to the backstory are expected either to obscure something or protect somebody's part in the story, or just as a none of your business kind of thing.

 

Go up to any dealer and ask them the backstory of a book in their inventory, and you'll get all kinds of answers. Or no answer. Doesn't really matter unless they are hiding color touch or trimming.

No kidding. I go back to my Maxim #1 in dealing with dealers, which is if their lips are moving, then I assume they`re lying.

 

As long as the book is genuine and appears to be deserving of the grade assigned by CGC, who gives a mess what the back story is or whether it`s true or not? If it turned out that the whole Tom Reilly back story was made up, would that make the Reilly copies any less sweet? If it turned out that the whole Edgar Church story was made up by Chuck (see Maxim #1 above), does it make the Church books any less desirable?

 

You mean like the fake Mile High books that the Dentist made and sold in the past as real Mile High copies?

[Bronty]

^ That really was an appalling story on so many levels.

[VintageComics]

So Whiz #1, Thunda and a few others weren't close in price in the guide in the early years?

 

By the way, when the Marvel #1 Pay copy sold for $350,000 and was the most expensive selling book at that time, and it was nearly a decade later when an Action #1 broke $300K, was that my Marvel centric view?

 

Thunda was certainly disproportionately high in early issues of the guide (higher than Adventure 40 I'm sure and some other late risers), but not near the levels of Action 1, Marvel 1, or Whiz 1, no.

 

And now you want to bring Parrino's overpaying for the Marvel #1 as proof of your argument?

 

What about the fact that Parrino also advertised to pay a million for an Action #1 even back then?

It's simply not fair to highlight that single sale from someone who was trying to make a market by doing so when no comparable copies of Action 1 came up for sale in the interim.

As it's been said here before, many smart people sold their books to Parrino for a tidy profit when he entered the hobby, and then were able to buy them back a few years later at a substantial discount.

 

So when a guy named Parrino buys a book it's overpriced and overpaying but when a no name person in an auction buys a book who we later find out has the initials JD then it's legit?

 

It was the highest price paid for a comic up until that point, and whether people like it or not (and whether it was an Action #1 or not) it was a benchmark.

 

And while Parrino advertised a Million for a NM Action #1, he neither paid a Million for one nor was a 9.4 copy available for him to buy (and possibly still isn't) - so while it is an interesting factoid, until the money changes hands it's just a cool story.

 

 

[VintageComics]

By the way, when the Marvel #1 Pay copy sold for $350,000 and was the most expensive selling book at that time, and it was nearly a decade later when an Action #1 broke $300K, was that my Marvel centric view?

I know you`re just saying this to be argumentative at this point, right? If not, then I need to introduce you to the concept of "apples and oranges".

 

The Marvel 1 Pay Copy was a 9.0. And it sold for "only" $350K. Please tell me that you don`t believe an Action 1 in 9.0 wouldn`t have sold for well over $350K. We know that the only known slabbed comparable copy of Action 1 at the time, Daniel Kramer`s 8.5 copy, would have sold well over $350K if it had been put up for sale.

 

I honestly don`t have any memory of unrestored Action 1s publicly selling between the time of the sale of the White Rose copy and the CC auction in 2009, which is why the CC auction created so much interest. But to the extent that no Action 1 broke the $300K barrier, it was because the only copies for sale were really low grade copies.

 

 

I'm not being argumentative - I'm just sharing my perspective.

 

I don't know what an Action #1 9.0 would have sold for 10-15 years ago because one didn't sell.

 

I do know that when the Action #1 6.0 (or was it 6.5 copy) sold it went for $317K or whatever it was and some people (those who were more in touch with real comic values) were surprised it went that strong and others (who had no skin in the game) thought it went cheap.

 

Anyhow, based on my conversations with people who were attending shows in the 1970's Marvel #1 was tougher to find than Action #1 (as Joe / All Star's con pic in another thread tends to prove), Marvel #1 was higher than Action #1 in the guide for a long time AND the Marvel #1 Pay copy did set a record price bench mark.

 

And yes, I am Marvel-centric but that doesn't change what actually happened.

 

I fully concede that it's possible that a 9.0 Action #1 could have sold for at least $350K when the Pay copy sold for that amount but since none changed hands, all we have are opinions and conjecture.

 

And this idea that Darren's story is shady or that it has any bearing on fake Church books are completely disconnected from reality. Even if this particular book was read on a toilet, who cares? It is what it is - a CGC 9.0 copy of a great book.

[DarrenSmith]

By the way, when the Marvel #1 Pay copy sold for $350,000 and was the most expensive selling book at that time, and it was nearly a decade later when an Action #1 broke $300K, was that my Marvel centric view?

I know you`re just saying this to be argumentative at this point, right? If not, then I need to introduce you to the concept of "apples and oranges".

 

The Marvel 1 Pay Copy was a 9.0. And it sold for "only" $350K. Please tell me that you don`t believe an Action 1 in 9.0 wouldn`t have sold for well over $350K. We know that the only known slabbed comparable copy of Action 1 at the time, Daniel Kramer`s 8.5 copy, would have sold well over $350K if it had been put up for sale.

 

I honestly don`t have any memory of unrestored Action 1s publicly selling between the time of the sale of the White Rose copy and the CC auction in 2009, which is why the CC auction created so much interest. But to the extent that no Action 1 broke the $300K barrier, it was because the only copies for sale were really low grade copies.

 

 

I'm not being argumentative - I'm just sharing my perspective.

 

I don't know what an Action #1 9.0 would have sold for 10-15 years ago because one didn't sell.

 

I do know that when the Action #1 6.0 (or was it 6.5 copy) sold it went for $317K or whatever it was and some people (those who were more in touch with real comic values) were surprised it went that strong and others (who had no skin in the game) thought it went cheap.

 

Anyhow, based on my conversations with people who were attending shows in the 1970's Marvel #1 was tougher to find than Action #1 (as Joe / All Star's con pic in another thread tends to prove), Marvel #1 was higher than Action #1 in the guide for a long time AND the Marvel #1 Pay copy did set a record price bench mark.

 

And yes, I am Marvel-centric but that doesn't change what actually happened.

 

I fully concede that it's possible that a 9.0 Action #1 could have sold for at least $350K when the Pay copy sold for that amount but since none changed hands, all we have are opinions and conjecture.

 

And this idea that Darren's story is shady or that it has any bearing on fake Church books are completely disconnected from reality. Even if this particular book was read on a toilet, who cares? It is what it is - a CGC 9.0 copy of a great book.

 

So are you saying you believe Darren Adams story as told in the video?

 

 

 

[Crowzilla]

 

So when a guy named Parrino buys a book it's overpriced and overpaying but when a no name person in an auction buys a book who we later find out has the initials JD then it's legit?

 

It was the highest price paid for a comic up until that point, and whether people like it or not (and whether it was an Action #1 or not) it was a benchmark.

 

 

Wasn't trying to make anything personal and if I gave the appearance of doing so, I apologize.

 

You are correct that Parrino paid the highest reported price up until that time for a book. My suggestion that he overpaid is borne by the fact that when the book came up for auction years later it had trouble finding a buyer at 60% of the previous sale price. Most dealers would love to be able to purchase books for 60% of FMV. Parrino certainly tried to promote that book as being the first million dollar comic (and maybe it is now worth that or soon will be), but it also seems evident from how he priced the multiple copies of Action #1 in his catalog (all lower grades) that he believed it to be the more valuable book grade by grade.

 

I believe that Flash #1 reached the benchmark $100K price barrier before Action #1 did also (made big news when it sold for that at San Diego), but when it happened no one suggested that Flash #1 was a more valuable book than Action #1, as again no comparable condition copies of Action #1 were available to purchase.

 

Also agree that for a long time Marvel #1 might well have been a more difficult book to acquire, and have stated before most pedigree copies surfaced after the Church copy was discovered, (and Whiz #1 more difficult than either of them), but that doesn't automatically make it more valuable.

 

[VintageComics]

So are you saying you believe Darren Adams story as told in the video?

 

No, I'm saying who cares about the back story about the book?

 

 

[VintageComics]

 

Wasn't trying to make anything personal and if I gave the appearance of doing so, I apologize.

 

 

I wasn't a wheeler - dealer back in the 70's so my perception is just my perception. To me, I always saw Marvel #1 and Action #1 as being neck in neck as they were both benchmarks for the respective big two. I've been a lifelong Marvel fan and based on my perception, Marvel #1 was always just as big a book as Action #1.

 

I fully concede to very possibly being wrong on whether it actually was or not.

 

I do believe that things have changed greatly since both

 

a) media has become extremely influential with franchises

b) dollar values have risen to life changing sums

 

and since those two factors have taken effect, paradigms have shifted.

 

Marvel #1 might still well be a top 2 or 3 book if people weren't looking to 'invest in relevant characters'.