Cerebus 1 a more valuable key than Hulk 181? Really Overstreet? Poll on Page 87 3 3

[bronze johnny]

Freaking hilarious!

 

86 pages of hilarity.

 

 

Wait until we get to 200 pages!

[FlyingDonut]

And this would still be higher than Overstreet's purported value of both hulk 181 and cerebus 1 in a 9.2.

 

-J.

 

That means absolutely nothing. What is OS on AF15 in 9.2? Cap #1? Action #1? FF#12?

 

We all know that OS on the hyper keys isn't in line with FMV on graded books.

 

That's been the OP's point since the first post. And hulk 181 is a hyper key. Cerebus 1 is not.

 

-J.

 

Hulk 181 is the BA AF 15. Only a matter of time before the demand for Hulk 181 increases to the point where the existing supply will not prevent this book from reaching the stratosphere in terms of value. Cerebus 1 is a BA key but not an iconic or hyper key.

 

So what? Right now, Cerebus 1 is valued more in the marketplace.

[FlyingDonut]

And this would still be higher than Overstreet's purported value of both hulk 181 and cerebus 1 in a 9.2.

 

-J.

 

That means absolutely nothing. What is OS on AF15 in 9.2? Cap #1? Action #1? FF#12?

 

We all know that OS on the hyper keys isn't in line with FMV on graded books.

 

That's been the OP's point since the first post. And hulk 181 is a hyper key. Cerebus 1 is not.

 

-J.

 

I don't think that's been his point. His point was that he thinks that Hulk 181 should be ranked higher than Cerebus #1 (in terms of value). I don't think he ever disputed "key" status.

 

Going back to my post, as I said, we all know that OS values aren't totally in line with what we see a majority of the time (ie, certified HG comics). And it would be silly to think they would. How many of us would line up and take out a second mortgage on our homes if we could buy graded keys at their OS price? You'd make a small fortune quickly if that were possible.

 

But, what OS does give us is an appx value/range of particular, uncertified book. And, from that, we can rank the books.

 

I don't have this years OS but I know that, of the books in my example, Action 1 is the most expensive. Just like in the "real-time auction/online sales" world. Cap 1 will be second, followed by AF15, then FF#12 (and then Cerebus 1, and Hulk 181).

 

Nobody is disputing the more popular character. Nobody is disputing the book that is in higher demand. I don't think anyone would dispute which book is more liquid.

 

The thread is about which book should be more valuable in OS. And, right now, OS has it right.

 

That is a point I'm making. Hulk 181 is an iconic key. Cerebus is not. Wolverine is one of the greatest comic book creations of the 20th Century. Cerebus has his place among the greatest independent comic book creations. The Aardvark is not on the same plane as Wolverine in terms of popularity and believe me, that's not a knock on Cerebus. Iconic keys are not your average key book. The characters have a place in terms of popularity beyond the comic book medium. Wolverine has achieved that place. OS is saying that a character like Cerebus has a more valuable 1st app. than Wolverine's. One reason why I take issue with this is the special nature of Hulk 181. Again, it's not an average key. It's iconic.

 

No. Overstreet is saying that Cerebus 1 is more valuable than Hulk 181. Which it is.

[Jaydogrules]

And this would still be higher than Overstreet's purported value of both hulk 181 and cerebus 1 in a 9.2.

 

-J.

 

That means absolutely nothing. What is OS on AF15 in 9.2? Cap #1? Action #1? FF#12?

 

We all know that OS on the hyper keys isn't in line with FMV on graded books.

 

That's been the OP's point since the first post. And hulk 181 is a hyper key. Cerebus 1 is not.

 

-J.

 

I don't think that's been his point. His point was that he thinks that Hulk 181 should be ranked higher than Cerebus #1 (in terms of value). I don't think he ever disputed "key" status.

 

Going back to my post, as I said, we all know that OS values aren't totally in line with what we see a majority of the time (ie, certified HG comics). And it would be silly to think they would. How many of us would line up and take out a second mortgage on our homes if we could buy graded keys at their OS price? You'd make a small fortune quickly if that were possible.

 

But, what OS does give us is an appx value/range of particular, uncertified book. And, from that, we can rank the books.

 

I don't have this years OS but I know that, of the books in my example, Action 1 is the most expensive. Just like in the "real-time auction/online sales" world. Cap 1 will be second, followed by AF15, then FF#12 (and then Cerebus 1, and Hulk 181).

 

Nobody is disputing the more popular character. Nobody is disputing the book that is in higher demand. I don't think anyone would dispute which book is more liquid.

 

The thread is about which book should be more valuable in OS. And, right now, OS has it right.

 

That is a point I'm making. Hulk 181 is an iconic key. Cerebus is not. Wolverine is one of the greatest comic book creations of the 20th Century. Cerebus has his place among the greatest independent comic book creations. The Aardvark is not on the same plane as Wolverine in terms of popularity and believe me, that's not a knock on Cerebus. Iconic keys are not your average key book. The characters have a place in terms of popularity beyond the comic book medium. Wolverine has achieved that place. OS is saying that a character like Cerebus has a more valuable 1st app. than Wolverine's. One reason why I take issue with this is the special nature of Hulk 181. Again, it's not an average key. It's iconic.

 

No. Overstreet is saying that Cerebus 1 is more valuable than Hulk 181. Which it is.

 

Only evidently to the people who own one (or more) or have some to sell.

 

-J.

[bronze johnny]

And this would still be higher than Overstreet's purported value of both hulk 181 and cerebus 1 in a 9.2.

 

-J.

 

That means absolutely nothing. What is OS on AF15 in 9.2? Cap #1? Action #1? FF#12?

 

We all know that OS on the hyper keys isn't in line with FMV on graded books.

 

That's been the OP's point since the first post. And hulk 181 is a hyper key. Cerebus 1 is not.

 

-J.

 

I don't think that's been his point. His point was that he thinks that Hulk 181 should be ranked higher than Cerebus #1 (in terms of value). I don't think he ever disputed "key" status.

 

Going back to my post, as I said, we all know that OS values aren't totally in line with what we see a majority of the time (ie, certified HG comics). And it would be silly to think they would. How many of us would line up and take out a second mortgage on our homes if we could buy graded keys at their OS price? You'd make a small fortune quickly if that were possible.

 

But, what OS does give us is an appx value/range of particular, uncertified book. And, from that, we can rank the books.

 

I don't have this years OS but I know that, of the books in my example, Action 1 is the most expensive. Just like in the "real-time auction/online sales" world. Cap 1 will be second, followed by AF15, then FF#12 (and then Cerebus 1, and Hulk 181).

 

Nobody is disputing the more popular character. Nobody is disputing the book that is in higher demand. I don't think anyone would dispute which book is more liquid.

 

The thread is about which book should be more valuable in OS. And, right now, OS has it right.

 

That is a point I'm making. Hulk 181 is an iconic key. Cerebus is not. Wolverine is one of the greatest comic book creations of the 20th Century. Cerebus has his place among the greatest independent comic book creations. The Aardvark is not on the same plane as Wolverine in terms of popularity and believe me, that's not a knock on Cerebus. Iconic keys are not your average key book. The characters have a place in terms of popularity beyond the comic book medium. Wolverine has achieved that place. OS is saying that a character like Cerebus has a more valuable 1st app. than Wolverine's. One reason why I take issue with this is the special nature of Hulk 181. Again, it's not an average key. It's iconic.

 

No. Overstreet is saying that Cerebus 1 is more valuable than Hulk 181. Which it is.

 

Only evidently to the people who own one (or more) or have some to sell.

 

-J.

 

So true.

[Gatsby77]

Can we just set up a poll and be done with this?

 

My count right now is 17 to 3 or so in favor of Cerebus being the higher-valued book in 9.2, including all of the well-known dealers (who make their livings selling these books) as well as OSPG - whose only credibility is based on presenting conservative realistic values of 9.2 raw (unslabbed) books.

 

I'd love to hear some new pro-Cerebus voices other than Jaydog, BronzeJohnny or BlazinComics, who collectively have kept this thread alive for the last 20 pages by baiting RMA and well...everyone else.

 

And again - at this point I think Jaydog's just messing with us, trolling the collectors, dealers, and well...comic book community at large for his amusement - it's the only explanation I can fathom for the every-other-post rebuttal in the face of overwhelming sentiment and logic espoused in near-solidarity from this audience, composed of many of the most advanced &/or informed collectors around.

 

For that good sir, I bow to you.

[Jaydogrules]

Can we just set up a poll and be done with this?

 

My count right now is 17 to 3 or so in favor of Cerebus being the higher-valued book in 9.2, including all of the well-known dealers (who make their livings selling these books) as well as OSPG - whose only credibility is based on presenting conservative realistic values of 9.2 raw (unslabbed) books.

 

I'd love to hear some new pro-Cerebus voices other than Jaydog, BronzeJohnny or BlazinComics, who collectively have kept this thread alive for the last 20 pages by baiting RMA and well...everyone else.

 

And again - at this point I think Jaydog's just messing with us, trolling the collectors, dealers, and well...comic book community at large for his amusement - it's the only explanation I can fathom for the every-other-post rebuttal in the face of overwhelming sentiment and logic espoused in near-solidarity from this audience, composed of many of the most advanced &/or informed collectors around.

 

For that good sir, I bow to you.

 

While I certainly find your rhetoric amusing, let it be noted that I have been the only one to cite actual publicly available sales data to support my statements. RMA cited GPA for cerebus 1 earlier in the thread but all that did was show a 15% decline in value in its top grade over a 10 year span.

 

All the rest has been presumptions, supposition, and hypothesis that literally ignores all publicly available sales data for both books.

 

If you know of any publicly available sales data that supports your position please feel free to post it here. I am always happy to revisit my position.

 

-J.

[HighStakesComics]

18-2, Sir. I voted for Cerebus by the skin of its teeth halfway through the thread. Hell Im the only one here who has bid up the 7.5 on link. I wouldn't be surprised to see it tank though, since every other copy that has sold or been for sale since this thread began has underperformed. At least with Hulk 181 you know what you are getting. The Wolverine is tried and true.

[Jaydogrules]

Is this poll only pertaining to the one grade that Cerebus actually is more valuable at the moment (9.4)? Or the grade that Overstreet states it is more valuable at (barely, 9.2)? Or should people vote by the weight of literally every single other grade from 9.0 (really, 9.2) down?

 

-J.

[FlyingDonut]

Can we just set up a poll and be done with this?

 

My count right now is 17 to 3 or so in favor of Cerebus being the higher-valued book in 9.2, including all of the well-known dealers (who make their livings selling these books) as well as OSPG - whose only credibility is based on presenting conservative realistic values of 9.2 raw (unslabbed) books.

 

I'd love to hear some new pro-Cerebus voices other than Jaydog, BronzeJohnny or BlazinComics, who collectively have kept this thread alive for the last 20 pages by baiting RMA and well...everyone else.

 

And again - at this point I think Jaydog's just messing with us, trolling the collectors, dealers, and well...comic book community at large for his amusement - it's the only explanation I can fathom for the every-other-post rebuttal in the face of overwhelming sentiment and logic espoused in near-solidarity from this audience, composed of many of the most advanced &/or informed collectors around.

 

For that good sir, I bow to you.

 

While I certainly find your rhetoric amusing, let it be noted that I have been the only one to cite actual publicly available sales data to support my statements. RMA cited GPA for cerebus 1 earlier in the thread but all that did was show a 15% decline in value in its top grade over a 10 year span.

 

All the rest has been presumptions, supposition, and hypothesis that literally ignores all publicly available sales data for both books.

 

If you know of any publicly available sales data that supports your position please feel free to post it here. I am always happy to revisit my position.

 

-J.

 

I will trade you an Incredible Hulk 181 in 9.2 for a Cerebus 1 in 9.2 straight up every day of the week. Since you think the Hulk 181 is worth more, go find me some Cerebuses. I'll trade you multiples.

[seanfingh]

Cerebi.

[Jaydogrules]

Can we just set up a poll and be done with this?

 

My count right now is 17 to 3 or so in favor of Cerebus being the higher-valued book in 9.2, including all of the well-known dealers (who make their livings selling these books) as well as OSPG - whose only credibility is based on presenting conservative realistic values of 9.2 raw (unslabbed) books.

 

I'd love to hear some new pro-Cerebus voices other than Jaydog, BronzeJohnny or BlazinComics, who collectively have kept this thread alive for the last 20 pages by baiting RMA and well...everyone else.

 

And again - at this point I think Jaydog's just messing with us, trolling the collectors, dealers, and well...comic book community at large for his amusement - it's the only explanation I can fathom for the every-other-post rebuttal in the face of overwhelming sentiment and logic espoused in near-solidarity from this audience, composed of many of the most advanced &/or informed collectors around.

 

For that good sir, I bow to you.

While I certainly find your rhetoric amusing, let it be noted that I have been the only one to cite actual publicly available sales data to support my statements. RMA cited GPA for cerebus 1 earlier in the thread but all that did was show a 15% decline in value in its top grade over a 10 year span.

 

All the rest has been presumptions, supposition, and hypothesis that literally ignores all publicly available sales data for both books.

 

If you know of any publicly available sales data that supports your position please feel free to post it here. I am always happy to revisit my position.

 

-J.

 

I will trade you an Incredible Hulk 181 in 9.2 for a Cerebus 1 in 9.2 straight up every day of the week. Since you think the Hulk 181 is worth more, go find me some Cerebuses. I'll trade you multiples.

 

I have no doubt you would. Would you trade me straight an 8.5 cerebus 1 for an 8.5, 181? Or is cerebus 1 only "worth it" to you in its 7 or 8 highest graded known copies to exist ?

 

-J.

[Prince Namor]

Can we just set up a poll and be done with this?

 

My count right now is 17 to 3 or so in favor of Cerebus being the higher-valued book in 9.2, including all of the well-known dealers (who make their livings selling these books) as well as OSPG - whose only credibility is based on presenting conservative realistic values of 9.2 raw (unslabbed) books.

 

I'd love to hear some new pro-Cerebus voices other than Jaydog, BronzeJohnny or BlazinComics, who collectively have kept this thread alive for the last 20 pages by baiting RMA and well...everyone else.

 

And again - at this point I think Jaydog's just messing with us, trolling the collectors, dealers, and well...comic book community at large for his amusement - it's the only explanation I can fathom for the every-other-post rebuttal in the face of overwhelming sentiment and logic espoused in near-solidarity from this audience, composed of many of the most advanced &/or informed collectors around.

 

For that good sir, I bow to you.

 

While I certainly find your rhetoric amusing, let it be noted that I have been the only one to cite actual publicly available sales data to support my statements. RMA cited GPA for cerebus 1 earlier in the thread but all that did was show a 15% decline in value in its top grade over a 10 year span.

 

All the rest has been presumptions, supposition, and hypothesis that literally ignores all publicly available sales data for both books.

 

If you know of any publicly available sales data that supports your position please feel free to post it here. I am always happy to revisit my position.

 

-J.

 

I will trade you an Incredible Hulk 181 in 9.2 for a Cerebus 1 in 9.2 straight up every day of the week. Since you think the Hulk 181 is worth more, go find me some Cerebuses. I'll trade you multiples.

 

I have no doubt you would. Would you trade me straight an 8.5 cerebus 1 for an 8.5, 181? Or is cerebus 1 only "worth it" to you in its 7 or 8 highest graded known copies ?

 

-J.

 

THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT of the DISCUSSION.

 

NOT the 8.5

 

The 9.2 and HIGHER.

 

 

[Jaydogrules]

Can we just set up a poll and be done with this?

 

My count right now is 17 to 3 or so in favor of Cerebus being the higher-valued book in 9.2, including all of the well-known dealers (who make their livings selling these books) as well as OSPG - whose only credibility is based on presenting conservative realistic values of 9.2 raw (unslabbed) books.

 

I'd love to hear some new pro-Cerebus voices other than Jaydog, BronzeJohnny or BlazinComics, who collectively have kept this thread alive for the last 20 pages by baiting RMA and well...everyone else.

 

And again - at this point I think Jaydog's just messing with us, trolling the collectors, dealers, and well...comic book community at large for his amusement - it's the only explanation I can fathom for the every-other-post rebuttal in the face of overwhelming sentiment and logic espoused in near-solidarity from this audience, composed of many of the most advanced &/or informed collectors around.

 

For that good sir, I bow to you.

 

While I certainly find your rhetoric amusing, let it be noted that I have been the only one to cite actual publicly available sales data to support my statements. RMA cited GPA for cerebus 1 earlier in the thread but all that did was show a 15% decline in value in its top grade over a 10 year span.

 

All the rest has been presumptions, supposition, and hypothesis that literally ignores all publicly available sales data for both books.

 

If you know of any publicly available sales data that supports your position please feel free to post it here. I am always happy to revisit my position.

 

-J.

 

I will trade you an Incredible Hulk 181 in 9.2 for a Cerebus 1 in 9.2 straight up every day of the week. Since you think the Hulk 181 is worth more, go find me some Cerebuses. I'll trade you multiples.

 

I have no doubt you would. Would you trade me straight an 8.5 cerebus 1 for an 8.5, 181? Or is cerebus 1 only "worth it" to you in its 7 or 8 highest graded known copies ?

 

-J.

 

THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT of the DISCUSSION.

 

NOT the 8.5

 

The 9.2 and HIGHER.

 

 

And I believe you may have missed the point of my rhetorical question.

 

And again, any publicly available data you know of that shows a cerebus 1 9.2 "ever" selling for more than 3k, please post it here.

 

-J.

[Prince Namor]

Can we just set up a poll and be done with this?

 

My count right now is 17 to 3 or so in favor of Cerebus being the higher-valued book in 9.2, including all of the well-known dealers (who make their livings selling these books) as well as OSPG - whose only credibility is based on presenting conservative realistic values of 9.2 raw (unslabbed) books.

 

I'd love to hear some new pro-Cerebus voices other than Jaydog, BronzeJohnny or BlazinComics, who collectively have kept this thread alive for the last 20 pages by baiting RMA and well...everyone else.

 

And again - at this point I think Jaydog's just messing with us, trolling the collectors, dealers, and well...comic book community at large for his amusement - it's the only explanation I can fathom for the every-other-post rebuttal in the face of overwhelming sentiment and logic espoused in near-solidarity from this audience, composed of many of the most advanced &/or informed collectors around.

 

For that good sir, I bow to you.

 

While I certainly find your rhetoric amusing, let it be noted that I have been the only one to cite actual publicly available sales data to support my statements. RMA cited GPA for cerebus 1 earlier in the thread but all that did was show a 15% decline in value in its top grade over a 10 year span.

 

All the rest has been presumptions, supposition, and hypothesis that literally ignores all publicly available sales data for both books.

 

If you know of any publicly available sales data that supports your position please feel free to post it here. I am always happy to revisit my position.

 

-J.

 

I will trade you an Incredible Hulk 181 in 9.2 for a Cerebus 1 in 9.2 straight up every day of the week. Since you think the Hulk 181 is worth more, go find me some Cerebuses. I'll trade you multiples.

 

I have no doubt you would. Would you trade me straight an 8.5 cerebus 1 for an 8.5, 181? Or is cerebus 1 only "worth it" to you in its 7 or 8 highest graded known copies ?

 

-J.

 

THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT of the DISCUSSION.

 

NOT the 8.5

 

The 9.2 and HIGHER.

 

 

And I believe you may have missed the point of my rhetorical question.

 

And again, any publicly available data you know of that shows a cerebus 1 9.2 "ever" selling for more than 3k, please post it here.

 

-J.

 

All I hear is:

[RockMyAmadeus]

I'm with Fingh. Somewhere in Van Nuys, CA a circle jerk is taking place with more intellectual merit than the last 10+ pages of this thread.

 

That's not true at all. There has been some very educational posts, on all sides, both explaining the difference between logic and emotion, and demonstrating that difference.

 

You have to glean what you can, and there have been some pretty decent gleanings, if you look close.

[Jaydogrules]

Can we just set up a poll and be done with this?

 

My count right now is 17 to 3 or so in favor of Cerebus being the higher-valued book in 9.2, including all of the well-known dealers (who make their livings selling these books) as well as OSPG - whose only credibility is based on presenting conservative realistic values of 9.2 raw (unslabbed) books.

 

I'd love to hear some new pro-Cerebus voices other than Jaydog, BronzeJohnny or BlazinComics, who collectively have kept this thread alive for the last 20 pages by baiting RMA and well...everyone else.

 

And again - at this point I think Jaydog's just messing with us, trolling the collectors, dealers, and well...comic book community at large for his amusement - it's the only explanation I can fathom for the every-other-post rebuttal in the face of overwhelming sentiment and logic espoused in near-solidarity from this audience, composed of many of the most advanced &/or informed collectors around.

 

For that good sir, I bow to you.

 

While I certainly find your rhetoric amusing, let it be noted that I have been the only one to cite actual publicly available sales data to support my statements. RMA cited GPA for cerebus 1 earlier in the thread but all that did was show a 15% decline in value in its top grade over a 10 year span.

 

All the rest has been presumptions, supposition, and hypothesis that literally ignores all publicly available sales data for both books.

 

If you know of any publicly available sales data that supports your position please feel free to post it here. I am always happy to revisit my position.

 

-J.

 

I will trade you an Incredible Hulk 181 in 9.2 for a Cerebus 1 in 9.2 straight up every day of the week. Since you think the Hulk 181 is worth more, go find me some Cerebuses. I'll trade you multiples.

 

I have no doubt you would. Would you trade me straight an 8.5 cerebus 1 for an 8.5, 181? Or is cerebus 1 only "worth it" to you in its 7 or 8 highest graded known copies ?

 

-J.

 

THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT of the DISCUSSION.

 

NOT the 8.5

 

The 9.2 and HIGHER.

 

 

And I believe you may have missed the point of my rhetorical question.

 

And again, any publicly available data you know of that shows a cerebus 1 9.2 "ever" selling for more than 3k, please post it here.

 

-J.

 

All I hear is:

 

So.....nothing then ?

 

-J.

 

PS: And yes I do love wolverine. And the punisher. And black cat. And spiderman. Et al.

[Prince Namor]

Is this poll only pertaining to the one grade that Cerebus actually is more valuable at the moment (9.4)? Or the grade that Overstreet states it is more valuable at (barely, 9.2)? Or should people vote by the weight of literally every single other grade from 9.0 (really, 9.2) down?

 

-J.

 

Why are you harping on this?

 

NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE is saying Cerebus #1 is OVERALL in EVERY grade a more important, HIGHER SELLING, more POPULAR book than Hulk #181.

 

NO ONE.

 

This argument is in your HEAD.

[RockMyAmadeus]

And this would still be higher than Overstreet's purported value of both hulk 181 and cerebus 1 in a 9.2.

 

-J.

 

That means absolutely nothing. What is OS on AF15 in 9.2? Cap #1? Action #1? FF#12?

 

We all know that OS on the hyper keys isn't in line with FMV on graded books.

 

That's been the OP's point since the first post. And hulk 181 is a hyper key. Cerebus 1 is not.

 

-J.

 

I don't think that's been his point. His point was that he thinks that Hulk 181 should be ranked higher than Cerebus #1 (in terms of value). I don't think he ever disputed "key" status.

 

Going back to my post, as I said, we all know that OS values aren't totally in line with what we see a majority of the time (ie, certified HG comics). And it would be silly to think they would. How many of us would line up and take out a second mortgage on our homes if we could buy graded keys at their OS price? You'd make a small fortune quickly if that were possible.

 

But, what OS does give us is an appx value/range of particular, uncertified book. And, from that, we can rank the books.

 

I don't have this years OS but I know that, of the books in my example, Action 1 is the most expensive. Just like in the "real-time auction/online sales" world. Cap 1 will be second, followed by AF15, then FF#12 (and then Cerebus 1, and Hulk 181).

 

Nobody is disputing the more popular character. Nobody is disputing the book that is in higher demand. I don't think anyone would dispute which book is more liquid.

 

The thread is about which book should be more valuable in OS. And, right now, OS has it right.

 

That is a point I'm making. Hulk 181 is an iconic key. Cerebus is not. Wolverine is one of the greatest comic book creations of the 20th Century. Cerebus has his place among the greatest independent comic book creations. The Aardvark is not on the same plane as Wolverine in terms of popularity and believe me, that's not a knock on Cerebus. Iconic keys are not your average key book. The characters have a place in terms of popularity beyond the comic book medium. Wolverine has achieved that place. OS is saying that a character like Cerebus has a more valuable 1st app. than Wolverine's. One reason why I take issue with this is the special nature of Hulk 181. Again, it's not an average key. It's iconic.

 

And that's the problem that you have had since the beginning, that has been explained multiple times: you want the OPG list to be a popularity contest, and it's not. It never has been. That's not its function.

 

Why not just accept that and move on?

[Prince Namor]

Because: