Cerebus 1 a more valuable key than Hulk 181? Really Overstreet? Poll on Page 87 3 3

[oakman29]

Which book would you put a higher price tag on, Dale:

 

Hulk 181 CGC 9.2

Cerebus 1 CGC 9.2

 

 

Which book would you pay more for?

 

I would have to believe Cerebus #1 would be considerably higher. I know exactly what a Hulk #181 would sell for. Would be more trial and error with the Cerebus #1.

 

So....you think it would be "considerably higher", yet you are unable to divine a price? What would then be your basis for making such a determination and statement ?

 

-J.

 

There is little to no sales data on one of these books. I know exactly what the other one sells for because I have sold multiples this year (and actually none on line). And I didn't say I didn't know what I would price one. I simply didn't state what I would price it. There is a difference.

 

 

 

 

You stated your pricing of a cerebus 1 would be more "trial and error", which I interpret as meaning you would not really know how to price it.

 

So tell you what, next time you have a cerebus 1, 9.2 (since you dealers seem to run into and sell so many of these a year outside any and all public forums that you can definitively say what they are "worth" on an annual basis), and a Hulk 181, 9.2....

 

....put them both on your wall for $3k at the same time and see which one you actually sell first, and closest to that price.

 

Wolvie would win, and you know he would. You'd be staring at that cerebus for months, having to explain to most younger and/or casual collectors why the book is "important", justifying its price tag, waiting for that one niche collector to wander in and then haggle you down on your price. Meanwhile everyone and their mother of every generation will automatically know what that Hulk 181 is, and exactly why it has the price tag it does on it. The book would probably sell in two weeks or less.

 

 

 

-J.

 

 

 

You're confused. To start with, I am not going to price a Hulk #181 9.2 at 3K, unless it is a major upgrade candidate, and then I would probably just bust it out and do it myself. Its not worth that. You can go to any major comic show and find 5 - 10 in the room.

 

On the other hand, there are 6 Cerebus #1s in 9.0 or above all together. I know 1 person right now that would buy one if I had it. And there currently is no 9.2, but since a 9.0 has sold for $2500, I would have to believe a 9.2 would sell for more than 3K.

 

Hulk 181 9.2 has sold for more than $3k, verifiably very recently. One cerebus 9.0 sold for 2500 more than a year ago (how do you know it wasn't bought at that price as an "upgrade candidate"?). What we have far more recently for cerebus 1 is it taking a dump at just 850 in an 8.5 as well as plenty of other similarly high graded copies languishing on the market for months/years.

 

Remind me again why you think it has a higher FMV than a Hulk 181? Because you "know a guy" who would buy one now if you had one? Is this the kind of dealer data I'm supposed to take as being more reliable than GPA? Not to sound too sarcastic here, but come on guys.

 

-J.

 

I know that 3200.00 is NOT a realistic price for a Hulk #181.

 

I don't really care whether you believe it or not. Someone asked my opinion, I am giving it.

 

Honestly, many, many comic sales happen because I know a customer looking for a book. Same with Storms, and many others.

 

If you don't value my opinion, I will happily bow out of this thread. I have many other things to do than try to convince you. But I will add this. I know what I am doing, more than most, I can s ay with confidence. I have been doing this for 19 years and I have been rather successful. And while I don't know everything, I am confident I know the market better than 80% of the Overstreet Advisors and I have info that GPA will never have.

Dale I highly respect you,but why do you employ that dumbarse Watson.

 

 

Kidding of course........or am I?

[HighStakesComics]

I'm with Fingh. Somewhere in Van Nuys, CA a circle jerk is taking place with more intellectual merit than the last 10+ pages of this thread.

[Jaydogrules]

Which book would you put a higher price tag on, Dale:

 

Hulk 181 CGC 9.2

Cerebus 1 CGC 9.2

 

 

Which book would you pay more for?

 

I would have to believe Cerebus #1 would be considerably higher. I know exactly what a Hulk #181 would sell for. Would be more trial and error with the Cerebus #1.

 

So....you think it would be "considerably higher", yet you are unable to divine a price? What would then be your basis for making such a determination and statement ?

 

-J.

 

There is little to no sales data on one of these books. I know exactly what the other one sells for because I have sold multiples this year (and actually none on line). And I didn't say I didn't know what I would price one. I simply didn't state what I would price it. There is a difference.

 

 

 

 

You stated your pricing of a cerebus 1 would be more "trial and error", which I interpret as meaning you would not really know how to price it.

 

So tell you what, next time you have a cerebus 1, 9.2 (since you dealers seem to run into and sell so many of these a year outside any and all public forums that you can definitively say what they are "worth" on an annual basis), and a Hulk 181, 9.2....

 

....put them both on your wall for $3k at the same time and see which one you actually sell first, and closest to that price.

 

Wolvie would win, and you know he would. You'd be staring at that cerebus for months, having to explain to most younger and/or casual collectors why the book is "important", justifying its price tag, waiting for that one niche collector to wander in and then haggle you down on your price. Meanwhile everyone and their mother of every generation will automatically know what that Hulk 181 is, and exactly why it has the price tag it does on it. The book would probably sell in two weeks or less.

 

 

 

-J.

 

 

 

You're confused. To start with, I am not going to price a Hulk #181 9.2 at 3K, unless it is a major upgrade candidate, and then I would probably just bust it out and do it myself. Its not worth that. You can go to any major comic show and find 5 - 10 in the room.

 

On the other hand, there are 6 Cerebus #1s in 9.0 or above all together. I know 1 person right now that would buy one if I had it. And there currently is no 9.2, but since a 9.0 has sold for $2500, I would have to believe a 9.2 would sell for more than 3K.

 

Hulk 181 9.2 has sold for more than $3k, verifiably very recently. One cerebus 9.0 sold for 2500 more than a year ago (how do you know it wasn't bought at that price as an "upgrade candidate"?). What we have far more recently for cerebus 1 is it taking a dump at just 850 in an 8.5 as well as plenty of other similarly high graded copies languishing on the market for months/years.

 

Remind me again why you think it has a higher FMV than a Hulk 181? Because you "know a guy" who would buy one now if you had one? Is this the kind of dealer data I'm supposed to take as being more reliable than GPA? Not to sound too sarcastic here, but come on guys.

 

-J.

 

I know that 3200.00 is NOT a realistic price for a Hulk #181.

 

I don't really care whether you believe it or not. Someone asked my opinion, I am giving it.

 

Honestly, many, many comic sales happen because I know a customer looking for a book. Same with Storms, and many others.

 

If you don't value my opinion, I will happily bow out of this thread. I have many other things to do than try to convince you. But I will add this. I know what I am doing, more than most, I can s ay with confidence. I have been doing this for 19 years and I have been rather successful. And while I don't know everything, I am confident I know the market better than 80% of the Overstreet Advisors and I have info that GPA will never have.

 

I didn't say I didn't value your opinion. But I also value hard and fast publicly available sales like this one:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/INCREDIBLE-HULK-181-WHITE-PAGES-CGC-GRADED-9-2-NOVEMBER-1974-/400755267796?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item5d4ee018d4

 

....which says 3200 is very much a realistic price for a 9.2, 181.

 

Or this:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Incredible-Hulk-181-cgc-9-0-Holy-Grail-Comic-WHITE-pages-1st-WOLVERINE-/161396918720?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item25940189c0

 

Which suggests that even a 9.0 181 has a realistic value of greater than $2100.

 

These are real, publicly available sales. I give these greater weight than anecdotal, unverifiable information from dealers (though I do still give that "some" weight). You may disagree all you like as to whether or not that should or should not be done.

 

But that still does not alter the import of the data that is publicly available.

 

-J.

[chrisco37]

What GPA says regarding Hulk 181 in 9.2 is that it is roughly a 2500+/- book.

 

The 3200 high is an outlier (at this point), just as the 1900 low is.

[newshane]

If I pay $80,000 for a Ford Fiesta...is that a reasonable price?

 

Come on now...

[Jaydogrules]

What GPA says regarding Hulk 181 in 9.2 is that it is roughly a 2500+/- book.

 

The 3200 high is an outlier (at this point), just as the 1900 low is.

 

Correct. And this would still be higher than Overstreet's purported value of both hulk 181 and cerebus 1 in a 9.2.

 

-J.

[Jaydogrules]

If I pay $80,000 for a Ford Fiesta...is that a reasonable price?

 

Come on now...

 

I'm not sure what point this is trying to make. New GPA highs are set for books all the time. That's how/why they go up in value.

 

-J.

[Guardian Comics]

Which book would you put a higher price tag on, Dale:

 

Hulk 181 CGC 9.2

Cerebus 1 CGC 9.2

 

 

Which book would you pay more for?

 

I would have to believe Cerebus #1 would be considerably higher. I know exactly what a Hulk #181 would sell for. Would be more trial and error with the Cerebus #1.

 

So....you think it would be "considerably higher", yet you are unable to divine a price? What would then be your basis for making such a determination and statement ?

 

-J.

 

There is little to no sales data on one of these books. I know exactly what the other one sells for because I have sold multiples this year (and actually none on line). And I didn't say I didn't know what I would price one. I simply didn't state what I would price it. There is a difference.

 

 

 

 

You stated your pricing of a cerebus 1 would be more "trial and error", which I interpret as meaning you would not really know how to price it.

 

So tell you what, next time you have a cerebus 1, 9.2 (since you dealers seem to run into and sell so many of these a year outside any and all public forums that you can definitively say what they are "worth" on an annual basis), and a Hulk 181, 9.2....

 

....put them both on your wall for $3k at the same time and see which one you actually sell first, and closest to that price.

 

Wolvie would win, and you know he would. You'd be staring at that cerebus for months, having to explain to most younger and/or casual collectors why the book is "important", justifying its price tag, waiting for that one niche collector to wander in and then haggle you down on your price. Meanwhile everyone and their mother of every generation will automatically know what that Hulk 181 is, and exactly why it has the price tag it does on it. The book would probably sell in two weeks or less.

 

 

 

-J.

 

 

 

You're confused. To start with, I am not going to price a Hulk #181 9.2 at 3K, unless it is a major upgrade candidate, and then I would probably just bust it out and do it myself. Its not worth that. You can go to any major comic show and find 5 - 10 in the room.

 

On the other hand, there are 6 Cerebus #1s in 9.0 or above all together. I know 1 person right now that would buy one if I had it. And there currently is no 9.2, but since a 9.0 has sold for $2500, I would have to believe a 9.2 would sell for more than 3K.

 

Hulk 181 9.2 has sold for more than $3k, verifiably very recently. One cerebus 9.0 sold for 2500 more than a year ago (how do you know it wasn't bought at that price as an "upgrade candidate"?). What we have far more recently for cerebus 1 is it taking a dump at just 850 in an 8.5 as well as plenty of other similarly high graded copies languishing on the market for months/years.

 

Remind me again why you think it has a higher FMV than a Hulk 181? Because you "know a guy" who would buy one now if you had one? Is this the kind of dealer data I'm supposed to take as being more reliable than GPA? Not to sound too sarcastic here, but come on guys.

 

-J.

 

I know that 3200.00 is NOT a realistic price for a Hulk #181.

 

I don't really care whether you believe it or not. Someone asked my opinion, I am giving it.

 

Honestly, many, many comic sales happen because I know a customer looking for a book. Same with Storms, and many others.

 

If you don't value my opinion, I will happily bow out of this thread. I have many other things to do than try to convince you. But I will add this. I know what I am doing, more than most, I can s ay with confidence. I have been doing this for 19 years and I have been rather successful. And while I don't know everything, I am confident I know the market better than 80% of the Overstreet Advisors and I have info that GPA will never have.

 

I didn't say I didn't value your opinion. But I also value hard and fast publicly available sales like this one:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/INCREDIBLE-HULK-181-WHITE-PAGES-CGC-GRADED-9-2-NOVEMBER-1974-/400755267796?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item5d4ee018d4

 

....which says 3200 is very much a realistic price for a 9.2, 181.

 

Or this:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Incredible-Hulk-181-cgc-9-0-Holy-Grail-Comic-WHITE-pages-1st-WOLVERINE-/161396918720?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item25940189c0

 

Which suggests that even a 9.0 181 has a realistic value of greater than $2100.

 

These are real, publicly available sales. I give these greater weight than anecdotal, unverifiable information from dealers (though I do still give that "some" weight). You may disagree all you like as to whether or not that should or should not be done.

 

But that still does not alter the import of the data that is publicly available.

 

-J.

 

#181 has some serious weird pricing levels. Of course you could get $2,100+ on a 9.0, to the right buyer at the right time. I got $2,000 for an 8.5 OW-W, in June. I had some wiggle room built in the price, but he just paid full pop. Prices between 8.5's to 9.2's consistently seem to overlap each other. It's weird.

 

Jim

[chrisco37]

And this would still be higher than Overstreet's purported value of both hulk 181 and cerebus 1 in a 9.2.

 

-J.

 

That means absolutely nothing. What is OS on AF15 in 9.2? Cap #1? Action #1? FF#12?

 

We all know that OS on the hyper keys isn't in line with FMV on graded books.

[Jaydogrules]

And this would still be higher than Overstreet's purported value of both hulk 181 and cerebus 1 in a 9.2.

 

-J.

 

That means absolutely nothing. What is OS on AF15 in 9.2? Cap #1? Action #1? FF#12?

 

We all know that OS on the hyper keys isn't in line with FMV on graded books.

 

That's been the OP's point since the first post. And hulk 181 is a hyper key. Cerebus 1 is not.

 

-J.

[Ryan.]

Are you sure?

[bronze johnny]

And this would still be higher than Overstreet's purported value of both hulk 181 and cerebus 1 in a 9.2.

 

-J.

 

That means absolutely nothing. What is OS on AF15 in 9.2? Cap #1? Action #1? FF#12?

 

We all know that OS on the hyper keys isn't in line with FMV on graded books.

 

That's been the OP's point since the first post. And hulk 181 is a hyper key. Cerebus 1 is not.

 

-J.

 

Hulk 181 is the BA AF 15. Only a matter of time before the demand for Hulk 181 increases to the point where the existing supply will not prevent this book from reaching the stratosphere in terms of value. Cerebus 1 is a BA key but not an iconic or hyper key.

[chrisco37]

And this would still be higher than Overstreet's purported value of both hulk 181 and cerebus 1 in a 9.2.

 

-J.

 

That means absolutely nothing. What is OS on AF15 in 9.2? Cap #1? Action #1? FF#12?

 

We all know that OS on the hyper keys isn't in line with FMV on graded books.

 

That's been the OP's point since the first post. And hulk 181 is a hyper key. Cerebus 1 is not.

 

-J.

 

I don't think that's been his point. His point was that he thinks that Hulk 181 should be ranked higher than Cerebus #1 (in terms of value). I don't think he ever disputed "key" status.

 

Going back to my post, as I said, we all know that OS values aren't totally in line with what we see a majority of the time (ie, certified HG comics). And it would be silly to think they would. How many of us would line up and take out a second mortgage on our homes if we could buy graded keys at their OS price? You'd make a small fortune quickly if that were possible.

 

But, what OS does give us is an appx value/range of particular, uncertified book. And, from that, we can rank the books.

 

I don't have this years OS but I know that, of the books in my example, Action 1 is the most expensive. Just like in the "real-time auction/online sales" world. Cap 1 will be second, followed by AF15, then FF#12 (and then Cerebus 1, and Hulk 181).

 

Nobody is disputing the more popular character. Nobody is disputing the book that is in higher demand. I don't think anyone would dispute which book is more liquid.

 

The thread is about which book should be more valuable in OS. And, right now, OS has it right.

[bronze johnny]

And this would still be higher than Overstreet's purported value of both hulk 181 and cerebus 1 in a 9.2.

 

-J.

 

That means absolutely nothing. What is OS on AF15 in 9.2? Cap #1? Action #1? FF#12?

 

We all know that OS on the hyper keys isn't in line with FMV on graded books.

 

That's been the OP's point since the first post. And hulk 181 is a hyper key. Cerebus 1 is not.

 

-J.

 

I don't think that's been his point. His point was that he thinks that Hulk 181 should be ranked higher than Cerebus #1 (in terms of value). I don't think he ever disputed "key" status.

 

Going back to my post, as I said, we all know that OS values aren't totally in line with what we see a majority of the time (ie, certified HG comics). And it would be silly to think they would. How many of us would line up and take out a second mortgage on our homes if we could buy graded keys at their OS price? You'd make a small fortune quickly if that were possible.

 

But, what OS does give us is an appx value/range of particular, uncertified book. And, from that, we can rank the books.

 

I don't have this years OS but I know that, of the books in my example, Action 1 is the most expensive. Just like in the "real-time auction/online sales" world. Cap 1 will be second, followed by AF15, then FF#12 (and then Cerebus 1, and Hulk 181).

 

Nobody is disputing the more popular character. Nobody is disputing the book that is in higher demand. I don't think anyone would dispute which book is more liquid.

 

The thread is about which book should be more valuable in OS. And, right now, OS has it right.

 

That is a point I'm making. Hulk 181 is an iconic key. Cerebus is not. Wolverine is one of the greatest comic book creations of the 20th Century. Cerebus has his place among the greatest independent comic book creations. The Aardvark is not on the same plane as Wolverine in terms of popularity and believe me, that's not a knock on Cerebus. Iconic keys are not your average key book. The characters have a place in terms of popularity beyond the comic book medium. Wolverine has achieved that place. OS is saying that a character like Cerebus has a more valuable 1st app. than Wolverine's. One reason why I take issue with this is the special nature of Hulk 181. Again, it's not an average key. It's iconic.

[Jaydogrules]

And this would still be higher than Overstreet's purported value of both hulk 181 and cerebus 1 in a 9.2.

 

-J.

 

That means absolutely nothing. What is OS on AF15 in 9.2? Cap #1? Action #1? FF#12?

 

We all know that OS on the hyper keys isn't in line with FMV on graded books.

 

That's been the OP's point since the first post. And hulk 181 is a hyper key. Cerebus 1 is not.

 

-J.

 

I don't think that's been his point. His point was that he thinks that Hulk 181 should be ranked higher than Cerebus #1 (in terms of value). I don't think he ever disputed "key" status.

 

Going back to my post, as I said, we all know that OS values aren't totally in line with what we see a majority of the time (ie, certified HG comics). And it would be silly to think they would. How many of us would line up and take out a second mortgage on our homes if we could buy graded keys at their OS price? You'd make a small fortune quickly if that were possible.

 

But, what OS does give us is an appx value/range of particular, uncertified book. And, from that, we can rank the books.

 

I don't have this years OS but I know that, of the books in my example, Action 1 is the most expensive. Just like in the "real-time auction/online sales" world. Cap 1 will be second, followed by AF15, then FF#12 (and then Cerebus 1, and Hulk 181).

 

Nobody is disputing the more popular character. Nobody is disputing the book that is in higher demand. I don't think anyone would dispute which book is more liquid.

 

The thread is about which book should be more valuable in OS. And, right now, OS has it right.

 

Well that is where we shall agree to disagree, as I have still yet to see any publicly available sales data to support a value of a cerebus 1 in a 9.2 that exceeds what hulk 181 in the same grade has actually been selling for quite robustly. Overstreet gets it wrong all the time, and here the purely hypothetical value of cerebus 1 in a 9.2 is just plain off.

 

-J.

[Prince Namor]

Freaking hilarious!

[bronze johnny]

Freaking hilarious!

 

- The omniscient one laughs!

[HighStakesComics]

And this would still be higher than Overstreet's purported value of both hulk 181 and cerebus 1 in a 9.2.

 

-J.

 

That means absolutely nothing. What is OS on AF15 in 9.2? Cap #1? Action #1? FF#12?

 

We all know that OS on the hyper keys isn't in line with FMV on graded books.

 

That's been the OP's point since the first post. And hulk 181 is a hyper key. Cerebus 1 is not.

 

-J.

 

I don't think that's been his point. His point was that he thinks that Hulk 181 should be ranked higher than Cerebus #1 (in terms of value). I don't think he ever disputed "key" status.

 

Going back to my post, as I said, we all know that OS values aren't totally in line with what we see a majority of the time (ie, certified HG comics). And it would be silly to think they would. How many of us would line up and take out a second mortgage on our homes if we could buy graded keys at their OS price? You'd make a small fortune quickly if that were possible.

 

But, what OS does give us is an appx value/range of particular, uncertified book. And, from that, we can rank the books.

 

I don't have this years OS but I know that, of the books in my example, Action 1 is the most expensive. Just like in the "real-time auction/online sales" world. Cap 1 will be second, followed by AF15, then FF#12 (and then Cerebus 1, and Hulk 181).

 

Nobody is disputing the more popular character. Nobody is disputing the book that is in higher demand. I don't think anyone would dispute which book is more liquid.

 

The thread is about which book should be more valuable in OS. And, right now, OS has it right.

 

You've made some good points. When in doubt go with the rarer book, however, recent Cerebus #1 sales have been uninspiring across the board. I'm not convinced a new Cerebus #1 in 9.2 brought to market would breach $2500. Maybe at this grade it would motivate a higher end collector to pay a steep premium over guide, but there is currently lackluster demand in the more common grades. What we do know is that the Hulk 181 in 9.2 sells above guide consistently.

[Jaydogrules]

And this would still be higher than Overstreet's purported value of both hulk 181 and cerebus 1 in a 9.2.

 

-J.

 

That means absolutely nothing. What is OS on AF15 in 9.2? Cap #1? Action #1? FF#12?

 

We all know that OS on the hyper keys isn't in line with FMV on graded books.

 

That's been the OP's point since the first post. And hulk 181 is a hyper key. Cerebus 1 is not.

 

-J.

 

I don't think that's been his point. His point was that he thinks that Hulk 181 should be ranked higher than Cerebus #1 (in terms of value). I don't think he ever disputed "key" status.

 

Going back to my post, as I said, we all know that OS values aren't totally in line with what we see a majority of the time (ie, certified HG comics). And it would be silly to think they would. How many of us would line up and take out a second mortgage on our homes if we could buy graded keys at their OS price? You'd make a small fortune quickly if that were possible.

 

But, what OS does give us is an appx value/range of particular, uncertified book. And, from that, we can rank the books.

 

I don't have this years OS but I know that, of the books in my example, Action 1 is the most expensive. Just like in the "real-time auction/online sales" world. Cap 1 will be second, followed by AF15, then FF#12 (and then Cerebus 1, and Hulk 181).

 

Nobody is disputing the more popular character. Nobody is disputing the book that is in higher demand. I don't think anyone would dispute which book is more liquid.

 

The thread is about which book should be more valuable in OS. And, right now, OS has it right.

 

You've made some good points. When in doubt go with the rarer book, however, recent Cerebus #1 sales have been uninspiring across the board. I'm not convinced a new Cerebus #1 in 9.2 brought to market would breach $2500. Maybe at this grade it would motivate a higher end collector to pay a steep premium over guide, but there is currently lackluster demand in the more common grades. What we do know is that the Hulk 181 in 9.2 sells above guide consistently.

 

(thumbs u

 

-J.

[oakman29]

Freaking hilarious!

 

86 pages of hilarity.