Cerebus 1 a more valuable key than Hulk 181? Really Overstreet? Poll on Page 87 3 3

[scooter99]

Dale is right.

 

Only a lunatic would pay over 3K for a 181 in 9.2.

 

 

+1 3k is a white paged, well centered 9.4.

 

One sale a trend does not make.

[Prince Namor]

I haven't been this fired up in a GPA debate since CBT tried to tell me Walking Dead was 'cooling off' based upon some GPA data he was obviously reading incorrectly back in 2012.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

And this would still be higher than Overstreet's purported value of both hulk 181 and cerebus 1 in a 9.2.

 

-J.

 

That means absolutely nothing. What is OS on AF15 in 9.2? Cap #1? Action #1? FF#12?

 

We all know that OS on the hyper keys isn't in line with FMV on graded books.

 

That's been the OP's point since the first post. And hulk 181 is a hyper key. Cerebus 1 is not.

 

-J.

 

I don't think that's been his point. His point was that he thinks that Hulk 181 should be ranked higher than Cerebus #1 (in terms of value). I don't think he ever disputed "key" status.

 

Going back to my post, as I said, we all know that OS values aren't totally in line with what we see a majority of the time (ie, certified HG comics). And it would be silly to think they would. How many of us would line up and take out a second mortgage on our homes if we could buy graded keys at their OS price? You'd make a small fortune quickly if that were possible.

 

But, what OS does give us is an appx value/range of particular, uncertified book. And, from that, we can rank the books.

 

I don't have this years OS but I know that, of the books in my example, Action 1 is the most expensive. Just like in the "real-time auction/online sales" world. Cap 1 will be second, followed by AF15, then FF#12 (and then Cerebus 1, and Hulk 181).

 

Nobody is disputing the more popular character. Nobody is disputing the book that is in higher demand. I don't think anyone would dispute which book is more liquid.

 

The thread is about which book should be more valuable in OS. And, right now, OS has it right.

 

You've made some good points. When in doubt go with the rarer book, however, recent Cerebus #1 sales have been uninspiring across the board. I'm not convinced a new Cerebus #1 in 9.2 brought to market would breach $2500. Maybe at this grade it would motivate a higher end collector to pay a steep premium over guide, but there is currently lackluster demand in the more common grades. What we do know is that the Hulk 181 in 9.2 sells above guide consistently.

 

Extremely rare books do not behave the same way as extremely common books in high grade.

 

The rarer the book, the more extreme the difference.

 

This is a basic principle of the market for rare books. I recognize that many of you don't understand that, having spent much time in the market of common books...but that's the way it is. The "rules" go out the window.

 

Look at Action #1. In 9.0 it's $3.2M. In 8.5...one grade difference...it's less than half that, $1.5M. In 8.0, one more grade difference, it's less than 1/3 the record,.at $1M. In 6.0, it's only $327K, 1/10th the record price...only a full grade and a half (VF/NM to Fine) lower.

 

 

[Jaydogrules]

Dale is right.

 

Only a lunatic would pay over 3K for a 181 in 9.2.

 

 

+1 3k is a white paged, well centered 9.4.

 

One sale a trend does not make.

 

...and here is recent, publicly available sales data that suggests you are mistaken:

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Incredible-Hulk-181-CGC-9-4-White-Pages-1st-Wolverine-Full-also-selling-180-/271593526196?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item3f3c3c53b4

 

I understand that some of you may not be able to "accept" what this "common" book actually sells for. However the data is what it is.

 

-J.

 

 

 

[Psithyrus]

I've always said that, like in a scientific experiment, one has to define the parameters of the discussion prior to analysis to truly eliminate any wavering in the interpretation.

 

One question needs to be answered. . . is Cerebus #1 in 9.2 more valuable than IH #181? Yes or no. With as tightly defined as the parameters are in this case (9.2 sales for these two books), to have this many pages suggests that while I shouldn't be wrong, I am.

[Jaydogrules]

And this would still be higher than Overstreet's purported value of both hulk 181 and cerebus 1 in a 9.2.

 

-J.

 

That means absolutely nothing. What is OS on AF15 in 9.2? Cap #1? Action #1? FF#12?

 

We all know that OS on the hyper keys isn't in line with FMV on graded books.

 

That's been the OP's point since the first post. And hulk 181 is a hyper key. Cerebus 1 is not.

 

-J.

 

I don't think that's been his point. His point was that he thinks that Hulk 181 should be ranked higher than Cerebus #1 (in terms of value). I don't think he ever disputed "key" status.

 

Going back to my post, as I said, we all know that OS values aren't totally in line with what we see a majority of the time (ie, certified HG comics). And it would be silly to think they would. How many of us would line up and take out a second mortgage on our homes if we could buy graded keys at their OS price? You'd make a small fortune quickly if that were possible.

 

But, what OS does give us is an appx value/range of particular, uncertified book. And, from that, we can rank the books.

 

I don't have this years OS but I know that, of the books in my example, Action 1 is the most expensive. Just like in the "real-time auction/online sales" world. Cap 1 will be second, followed by AF15, then FF#12 (and then Cerebus 1, and Hulk 181).

 

Nobody is disputing the more popular character. Nobody is disputing the book that is in higher demand. I don't think anyone would dispute which book is more liquid.

 

The thread is about which book should be more valuable in OS. And, right now, OS has it right.

 

You've made some good points. When in doubt go with the rarer book, however, recent Cerebus #1 sales have been uninspiring across the board. I'm not convinced a new Cerebus #1 in 9.2 brought to market would breach $2500. Maybe at this grade it would motivate a higher end collector to pay a steep premium over guide, but there is currently lackluster demand in the more common grades. What we do know is that the Hulk 181 in 9.2 sells above guide consistently.

 

Extremely rare books do not behave the same way as extremely common books in high grade.

 

The rarer the book, the more extreme the difference.

 

This is a basic principle of the market for rare books. I recognize that many of you don't understand that, having spent much time in the market of common books...but that's the way it is. The "rules" go out the window.

 

Look at Action #1. In 9.0 it's $3.2M. In 8.5...one grade difference...it's less than half that, $1.5M. In 8.0, one more grade difference, it's less than 1/3 the record,.at $1M. In 6.0, it's only $327K, 1/10th the record price...only a full grade and a half (VF/NM to Fine) lower.

 

 

This is all just more hypothesis, supposition and speculation.

If you have any publicly available sales data that suggests cerebus 1 is akin to action comics #1 in terms of it valuation tiers, please feel free to post it here.

 

-J.

[RockMyAmadeus]

And this would still be higher than Overstreet's purported value of both hulk 181 and cerebus 1 in a 9.2.

 

-J.

 

That means absolutely nothing. What is OS on AF15 in 9.2? Cap #1? Action #1? FF#12?

 

We all know that OS on the hyper keys isn't in line with FMV on graded books.

 

That's been the OP's point since the first post. And hulk 181 is a hyper key. Cerebus 1 is not.

 

-J.

 

I don't think that's been his point. His point was that he thinks that Hulk 181 should be ranked higher than Cerebus #1 (in terms of value). I don't think he ever disputed "key" status.

 

Going back to my post, as I said, we all know that OS values aren't totally in line with what we see a majority of the time (ie, certified HG comics). And it would be silly to think they would. How many of us would line up and take out a second mortgage on our homes if we could buy graded keys at their OS price? You'd make a small fortune quickly if that were possible.

 

But, what OS does give us is an appx value/range of particular, uncertified book. And, from that, we can rank the books.

 

I don't have this years OS but I know that, of the books in my example, Action 1 is the most expensive. Just like in the "real-time auction/online sales" world. Cap 1 will be second, followed by AF15, then FF#12 (and then Cerebus 1, and Hulk 181).

 

Nobody is disputing the more popular character. Nobody is disputing the book that is in higher demand. I don't think anyone would dispute which book is more liquid.

 

The thread is about which book should be more valuable in OS. And, right now, OS has it right.

 

That is a point I'm making. Hulk 181 is an iconic key. Cerebus is not. Wolverine is one of the greatest comic book creations of the 20th Century. Cerebus has his place among the greatest independent comic book creations. The Aardvark is not on the same plane as Wolverine in terms of popularity and believe me, that's not a knock on Cerebus. Iconic keys are not your average key book. The characters have a place in terms of popularity beyond the comic book medium. Wolverine has achieved that place. OS is saying that a character like Cerebus has a more valuable 1st app. than Wolverine's. One reason why I take issue with this is the special nature of Hulk 181. Again, it's not an average key. It's iconic.

 

No. Overstreet is saying that Cerebus 1 is more valuable than Hulk 181. Which it is.

 

Only evidently to the people who own one (or more) or have some to sell.

 

-J.

 

That is an irrational statement, projecting your own bias.

[RockMyAmadeus]

And this would still be higher than Overstreet's purported value of both hulk 181 and cerebus 1 in a 9.2.

 

-J.

 

That means absolutely nothing. What is OS on AF15 in 9.2? Cap #1? Action #1? FF#12?

 

We all know that OS on the hyper keys isn't in line with FMV on graded books.

 

That's been the OP's point since the first post. And hulk 181 is a hyper key. Cerebus 1 is not.

 

-J.

 

I don't think that's been his point. His point was that he thinks that Hulk 181 should be ranked higher than Cerebus #1 (in terms of value). I don't think he ever disputed "key" status.

 

Going back to my post, as I said, we all know that OS values aren't totally in line with what we see a majority of the time (ie, certified HG comics). And it would be silly to think they would. How many of us would line up and take out a second mortgage on our homes if we could buy graded keys at their OS price? You'd make a small fortune quickly if that were possible.

 

But, what OS does give us is an appx value/range of particular, uncertified book. And, from that, we can rank the books.

 

I don't have this years OS but I know that, of the books in my example, Action 1 is the most expensive. Just like in the "real-time auction/online sales" world. Cap 1 will be second, followed by AF15, then FF#12 (and then Cerebus 1, and Hulk 181).

 

Nobody is disputing the more popular character. Nobody is disputing the book that is in higher demand. I don't think anyone would dispute which book is more liquid.

 

The thread is about which book should be more valuable in OS. And, right now, OS has it right.

 

That is a point I'm making. Hulk 181 is an iconic key. Cerebus is not. Wolverine is one of the greatest comic book creations of the 20th Century. Cerebus has his place among the greatest independent comic book creations. The Aardvark is not on the same plane as Wolverine in terms of popularity and believe me, that's not a knock on Cerebus. Iconic keys are not your average key book. The characters have a place in terms of popularity beyond the comic book medium. Wolverine has achieved that place. OS is saying that a character like Cerebus has a more valuable 1st app. than Wolverine's. One reason why I take issue with this is the special nature of Hulk 181. Again, it's not an average key. It's iconic.

 

No. Overstreet is saying that Cerebus 1 is more valuable than Hulk 181. Which it is.

 

Only evidently to the people who own one (or more) or have some to sell.

 

-J.

 

So true.

 

Also an irrational statement.

[scooter99]

Dale is right.

 

Only a lunatic would pay over 3K for a 181 in 9.2.

 

 

+1 3k is a white paged, well centered 9.4.

 

One sale a trend does not make.

 

...and here is recent, publicly available sales data that suggests you are mistaken:

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Incredible-Hulk-181-CGC-9-4-White-Pages-1st-Wolverine-Full-also-selling-180-/271593526196?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item3f3c3c53b4

 

I understand that some of you may not be able to "accept" what this "common" book actually sells for. However the data is what it is.

 

-J.

 

 

 

 

He accepted an offer that wasn't $3,800? Unless you are the seller, you have no idea what sales price was.

 

I've seen more than 2 9.4's sell on the boards in the last month in the $3,000.00 area. Ask RMA, he was the seller of one of them. And it was a beauty.

 

You would be better served to show a little humility on the boards. You don't know everything.

 

Edited September 4, 2014 by scooter99

[Jaydogrules]

Dale is right.

 

Only a lunatic would pay over 3K for a 181 in 9.2.

 

 

+1 3k is a white paged, well centered 9.4.

 

One sale a trend does not make.

 

...and here is recent, publicly available sales data that suggests you are mistaken:

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Incredible-Hulk-181-CGC-9-4-White-Pages-1st-Wolverine-Full-also-selling-180-/271593526196?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item3f3c3c53b4

 

I understand that some of you may not be able to "accept" what this "common" book actually sells for. However the data is what it is.

 

-J.

 

 

 

 

He accepted an offer that wasn't $3,800? Unless you are the seller, you have no idea what sales price was.

 

I've seen more than 2 9.4's sell on the boards in the last month in the $3,000.00 area. Ask RMA, he was the seller of one of them. And it was a beauty.

 

You would be better served to show a little humility on the boards. You don't know everything.

 

Yes you can see the accepted offer. Click "original listing" and then "print" about half way down on the next page.

 

$3500.

 

And since when does citing publicly available sales data and asking others to do the same indicate a lack of humility ?

 

-J.

[Lazyboy]

That is a point I'm making. Hulk 181 is an iconic key. Cerebus is not.

 

Says the guy who calls DC 100 Page SS 5 a key.

 

OS is saying that a character like Cerebus has a more valuable 1st app. than Wolverine's.

 

Cerebus 1s value isn't (all) because it's the first appearance of an aardvark.

[scooter99]

Dale is right.

 

Only a lunatic would pay over 3K for a 181 in 9.2.

 

 

+1 3k is a white paged, well centered 9.4.

 

One sale a trend does not make.

 

...and here is recent, publicly available sales data that suggests you are mistaken:

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Incredible-Hulk-181-CGC-9-4-White-Pages-1st-Wolverine-Full-also-selling-180-/271593526196?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item3f3c3c53b4

 

I understand that some of you may not be able to "accept" what this "common" book actually sells for. However the data is what it is.

 

-J.

 

 

 

 

He accepted an offer that wasn't $3,800? Unless you are the seller, you have no idea what sales price was.

 

I've seen more than 2 9.4's sell on the boards in the last month in the $3,000.00 area. Ask RMA, he was the seller of one of them. And it was a beauty.

 

You would be better served to show a little humility on the boards. You don't know everything.

 

Yes you can see the accepted offer. Click "original listing" and then "print" about half way down.

 

$3500.

 

And since when does citing publicly available data and asking others to do the same indicate a lack of humility ?

 

-J.

 

I did look it up after my previous post. Yes, it did sell for $3,500.00. You are correct. My apologies. I will note that might be one of the nicest 9.4's out there. There is a premium for perfectly centered copies. When I do my research, I don't look at the last sale or two, instead, I look up PQ and if I can find a scan, look for the centering, then use the 90 day avg. (if multiple sales) or past year sales if lesser copies have changed hands.

 

Sorry for the short fuse tonight, I had a tough day at work.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I'd love to hear some new pro-Cerebus voices other than Jaydog, BronzeJohnny or BlazinComics, who collectively have kept this thread alive for the last 20 pages by baiting RMA and well...everyone else.

 

 

And again - at this point I think Jaydog's just messing with us, trolling the collectors, dealers, and well...comic book community at large for his amusement - it's the only explanation I can fathom for the every-other-post rebuttal in the face of overwhelming sentiment and logic espoused in near-solidarity from this audience, composed of many of the most advanced &/or informed collectors around.

 

For that good sir, I bow to you.

 

I said that 300 posts ago.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Can we just set up a poll and be done with this?

 

My count right now is 17 to 3 or so in favor of Cerebus being the higher-valued book in 9.2, including all of the well-known dealers (who make their livings selling these books) as well as OSPG - whose only credibility is based on presenting conservative realistic values of 9.2 raw (unslabbed) books.

 

I'd love to hear some new pro-Cerebus voices other than Jaydog, BronzeJohnny or BlazinComics, who collectively have kept this thread alive for the last 20 pages by baiting RMA and well...everyone else.

 

And again - at this point I think Jaydog's just messing with us, trolling the collectors, dealers, and well...comic book community at large for his amusement - it's the only explanation I can fathom for the every-other-post rebuttal in the face of overwhelming sentiment and logic espoused in near-solidarity from this audience, composed of many of the most advanced &/or informed collectors around.

 

For that good sir, I bow to you.

 

While I certainly find your rhetoric amusing, let it be noted that I have been the only one to cite actual publicly available sales data to support my statements.

 

This isn't true.

 

RMA cited GPA for cerebus 1 earlier in the thread but all that did was show a 15% decline in value in its top grade over a 10 year span.

 

This also isn't true.

 

All the rest has been presumptions, supposition, and hypothesis that literally ignores all publicly available sales data for both books.

 

"hypotheses"

 

If you know of any publicly available sales data that supports your position please feel free to post it here. I am always happy to revisit my position.

 

-J.

 

You reject the sales data that has been given, so why bother?

[Jaydogrules]

Dale is right.

 

Only a lunatic would pay over 3K for a 181 in 9.2.

 

 

+1 3k is a white paged, well centered 9.4.

 

One sale a trend does not make.

 

...and here is recent, publicly available sales data that suggests you are mistaken:

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Incredible-Hulk-181-CGC-9-4-White-Pages-1st-Wolverine-Full-also-selling-180-/271593526196?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item3f3c3c53b4

 

I understand that some of you may not be able to "accept" what this "common" book actually sells for. However the data is what it is.

 

-J.

 

 

 

 

He accepted an offer that wasn't $3,800? Unless you are the seller, you have no idea what sales price was.

 

I've seen more than 2 9.4's sell on the boards in the last month in the $3,000.00 area. Ask RMA, he was the seller of one of them. And it was a beauty.

 

You would be better served to show a little humility on the boards. You don't know everything.

 

Yes you can see the accepted offer. Click "original listing" and then "print" about half way down.

 

$3500.

 

And since when does citing publicly available data and asking others to do the same indicate a lack of humility ?

 

-J.

 

I did look it up after my previous post. Yes, it did sell for $3,500.00. You are correct. My apologies. I will note that might be one of the nicest 9.4's out there. There is a premium for perfectly centered copies. When I do my research, I don't look at the last sale or two, instead, I look up PQ and if I can find a scan, look for the centering, then use the 90 day avg. (if multiple sales) or past year sales if lesser copies have changed hands.

 

Sorry for the short fuse tonight, I had a tough day at work.

 

 

No worries. (thumbs u And I typically do the same when I research comps. I'm making it a point to cite the most "recent" sales examples though. As for the 9.2 181 that sold for 3200, it was an exceptional copy as well for the grade.

 

-J.

[RockMyAmadeus]

And this would still be higher than Overstreet's purported value of both hulk 181 and cerebus 1 in a 9.2.

 

-J.

 

That means absolutely nothing. What is OS on AF15 in 9.2? Cap #1? Action #1? FF#12?

 

We all know that OS on the hyper keys isn't in line with FMV on graded books.

 

That's been the OP's point since the first post. And hulk 181 is a hyper key. Cerebus 1 is not.

 

-J.

 

I don't think that's been his point. His point was that he thinks that Hulk 181 should be ranked higher than Cerebus #1 (in terms of value). I don't think he ever disputed "key" status.

 

Going back to my post, as I said, we all know that OS values aren't totally in line with what we see a majority of the time (ie, certified HG comics). And it would be silly to think they would. How many of us would line up and take out a second mortgage on our homes if we could buy graded keys at their OS price? You'd make a small fortune quickly if that were possible.

 

But, what OS does give us is an appx value/range of particular, uncertified book. And, from that, we can rank the books.

 

I don't have this years OS but I know that, of the books in my example, Action 1 is the most expensive. Just like in the "real-time auction/online sales" world. Cap 1 will be second, followed by AF15, then FF#12 (and then Cerebus 1, and Hulk 181).

 

Nobody is disputing the more popular character. Nobody is disputing the book that is in higher demand. I don't think anyone would dispute which book is more liquid.

 

The thread is about which book should be more valuable in OS. And, right now, OS has it right.

 

You've made some good points. When in doubt go with the rarer book, however, recent Cerebus #1 sales have been uninspiring across the board. I'm not convinced a new Cerebus #1 in 9.2 brought to market would breach $2500. Maybe at this grade it would motivate a higher end collector to pay a steep premium over guide, but there is currently lackluster demand in the more common grades. What we do know is that the Hulk 181 in 9.2 sells above guide consistently.

 

Extremely rare books do not behave the same way as extremely common books in high grade.

 

The rarer the book, the more extreme the difference.

 

This is a basic principle of the market for rare books. I recognize that many of you don't understand that, having spent much time in the market of common books...but that's the way it is. The "rules" go out the window.

 

Look at Action #1. In 9.0 it's $3.2M. In 8.5...one grade difference...it's less than half that, $1.5M. In 8.0, one more grade difference, it's less than 1/3 the record,.at $1M. In 6.0, it's only $327K, 1/10th the record price...only a full grade and a half (VF/NM to Fine) lower.

 

 

This is all just more hypothesis, supposition and speculation.

If you have any publicly available sales data that suggests cerebus 1 is akin to action comics #1 in terms of it valuation tiers, please feel free to post it here.

 

-J.

 

You are literally using the words "hypothesis", "supposition", and "speculation" in direct opposition to their defined meanings.

 

Impressive!

[Jaydogrules]

Can we just set up a poll and be done with this?

 

My count right now is 17 to 3 or so in favor of Cerebus being the higher-valued book in 9.2, including all of the well-known dealers (who make their livings selling these books) as well as OSPG - whose only credibility is based on presenting conservative realistic values of 9.2 raw (unslabbed) books.

 

I'd love to hear some new pro-Cerebus voices other than Jaydog, BronzeJohnny or BlazinComics, who collectively have kept this thread alive for the last 20 pages by baiting RMA and well...everyone else.

 

And again - at this point I think Jaydog's just messing with us, trolling the collectors, dealers, and well...comic book community at large for his amusement - it's the only explanation I can fathom for the every-other-post rebuttal in the face of overwhelming sentiment and logic espoused in near-solidarity from this audience, composed of many of the most advanced &/or informed collectors around.

 

For that good sir, I bow to you.

 

While I certainly find your rhetoric amusing, let it be noted that I have been the only one to cite actual publicly available sales data to support my statements.

 

This isn't true.

 

RMA cited GPA for cerebus 1 earlier in the thread but all that did was show a 15% decline in value in its top grade over a 10 year span.

 

This also isn't true.

 

All the rest has been presumptions, supposition, and hypothesis that literally ignores all publicly available sales data for both books.

 

"hypotheses"

 

If you know of any publicly available sales data that supports your position please feel free to post it here. I am always happy to revisit my position.

 

-J.

 

You reject the sales data that has been given, so why bother?

 

Please re-post the publicly available sales data that has been posted. If I somehow missed it, I apologize.

 

-J.

[HighStakesComics]

And this would still be higher than Overstreet's purported value of both hulk 181 and cerebus 1 in a 9.2.

 

-J.

 

That means absolutely nothing. What is OS on AF15 in 9.2? Cap #1? Action #1? FF#12?

 

We all know that OS on the hyper keys isn't in line with FMV on graded books.

 

That's been the OP's point since the first post. And hulk 181 is a hyper key. Cerebus 1 is not.

 

-J.

 

I don't think that's been his point. His point was that he thinks that Hulk 181 should be ranked higher than Cerebus #1 (in terms of value). I don't think he ever disputed "key" status.

 

Going back to my post, as I said, we all know that OS values aren't totally in line with what we see a majority of the time (ie, certified HG comics). And it would be silly to think they would. How many of us would line up and take out a second mortgage on our homes if we could buy graded keys at their OS price? You'd make a small fortune quickly if that were possible.

 

But, what OS does give us is an appx value/range of particular, uncertified book. And, from that, we can rank the books.

 

I don't have this years OS but I know that, of the books in my example, Action 1 is the most expensive. Just like in the "real-time auction/online sales" world. Cap 1 will be second, followed by AF15, then FF#12 (and then Cerebus 1, and Hulk 181).

 

Nobody is disputing the more popular character. Nobody is disputing the book that is in higher demand. I don't think anyone would dispute which book is more liquid.

 

The thread is about which book should be more valuable in OS. And, right now, OS has it right.

 

You've made some good points. When in doubt go with the rarer book, however, recent Cerebus #1 sales have been uninspiring across the board. I'm not convinced a new Cerebus #1 in 9.2 brought to market would breach $2500. Maybe at this grade it would motivate a higher end collector to pay a steep premium over guide, but there is currently lackluster demand in the more common grades. What we do know is that the Hulk 181 in 9.2 sells above guide consistently.

 

Extremely rare books do not behave the same way as extremely common books in high grade.

 

The rarer the book, the more extreme the difference.

 

This is a basic principle of the market for rare books. I recognize that many of you don't understand that, having spent much time in the market of common books...but that's the way it is. The "rules" go out the window.

 

Look at Action #1. In 9.0 it's $3.2M. In 8.5...one grade difference...it's less than half that, $1.5M. In 8.0, one more grade difference, it's less than 1/3 the record,.at $1M. In 6.0, it's only $327K, 1/10th the record price...only a full grade and a half (VF/NM to Fine) lower.

 

 

(thumbs u

[Jaydogrules]

And this would still be higher than Overstreet's purported value of both hulk 181 and cerebus 1 in a 9.2.

 

-J.

 

That means absolutely nothing. What is OS on AF15 in 9.2? Cap #1? Action #1? FF#12?

 

We all know that OS on the hyper keys isn't in line with FMV on graded books.

 

That's been the OP's point since the first post. And hulk 181 is a hyper key. Cerebus 1 is not.

 

-J.

 

I don't think that's been his point. His point was that he thinks that Hulk 181 should be ranked higher than Cerebus #1 (in terms of value). I don't think he ever disputed "key" status.

 

Going back to my post, as I said, we all know that OS values aren't totally in line with what we see a majority of the time (ie, certified HG comics). And it would be silly to think they would. How many of us would line up and take out a second mortgage on our homes if we could buy graded keys at their OS price? You'd make a small fortune quickly if that were possible.

 

But, what OS does give us is an appx value/range of particular, uncertified book. And, from that, we can rank the books.

 

I don't have this years OS but I know that, of the books in my example, Action 1 is the most expensive. Just like in the "real-time auction/online sales" world. Cap 1 will be second, followed by AF15, then FF#12 (and then Cerebus 1, and Hulk 181).

 

Nobody is disputing the more popular character. Nobody is disputing the book that is in higher demand. I don't think anyone would dispute which book is more liquid.

 

The thread is about which book should be more valuable in OS. And, right now, OS has it right.

 

You've made some good points. When in doubt go with the rarer book, however, recent Cerebus #1 sales have been uninspiring across the board. I'm not convinced a new Cerebus #1 in 9.2 brought to market would breach $2500. Maybe at this grade it would motivate a higher end collector to pay a steep premium over guide, but there is currently lackluster demand in the more common grades. What we do know is that the Hulk 181 in 9.2 sells above guide consistently.

 

Extremely rare books do not behave the same way as extremely common books in high grade.

 

The rarer the book, the more extreme the difference.

 

This is a basic principle of the market for rare books. I recognize that many of you don't understand that, having spent much time in the market of common books...but that's the way it is. The "rules" go out the window.

 

Look at Action #1. In 9.0 it's $3.2M. In 8.5...one grade difference...it's less than half that, $1.5M. In 8.0, one more grade difference, it's less than 1/3 the record,.at $1M. In 6.0, it's only $327K, 1/10th the record price...only a full grade and a half (VF/NM to Fine) lower.

 

 

This is all just more hypothesis, supposition and speculation.

If you have any publicly available sales data that suggests cerebus 1 is akin to action comics #1 in terms of it valuation tiers, please feel free to post it here.

 

-J.

 

You are literally using the words "hypothesis", "supposition", and "speculation" in direct opposition to their defined meanings.

 

Impressive!

 

Thank you for the grammar lesson. So I "suppose" a person is unable to "speculate" about another person's "hypothesis"?

 

-J.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Dale is right.

 

Only a lunatic would pay over 3K for a 181 in 9.2.

 

 

+1 3k is a white paged, well centered 9.4.

 

One sale a trend does not make.

 

...and here is recent, publicly available sales data that suggests you are mistaken:

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Incredible-Hulk-181-CGC-9-4-White-Pages-1st-Wolverine-Full-also-selling-180-/271593526196?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item3f3c3c53b4

 

I understand that some of you may not be able to "accept" what this "common" book actually sells for. However the data is what it is.

 

-J.

 

 

 

 

He accepted an offer that wasn't $3,800? Unless you are the seller, you have no idea what sales price was.

 

I've seen more than 2 9.4's sell on the boards in the last month in the $3,000.00 area. Ask RMA, he was the seller of one of them. And it was a beauty.

 

You would be better served to show a little humility on the boards. You don't know everything.

 

Yes you can see the accepted offer. Click "original listing" and then "print" about half way down on the next page.

 

$3500.

 

And since when does citing publicly available sales data and asking others to do the same indicate a lack of humility ?

 

-J.

 

Hey Jay...are those books in your sigline yours?